Just had all my posts deleted?

[Xeres]

Hi there

Wondering if someone can help me - I have just had literally hundreds of my posts deleted, including a number of FS threads I had just loaded up last night. I run a search on myself and I'm only referenced.

Admin - are you able to help?

Thanks

[Otta]

Did you start loads of individual threads selling separate things? That could be why.

[Xeres]

I did but I have always done that. And this is more than my for sale threads - I have posted over 300 times. EVERYTHING has gone if you search me.

[Administrator]

You posted masses of "to the top", bumping up messages. I deleted them all.

[Xeres]

Hi there

I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was against the terms and conditions of the site. Would you be kind enough to reinstate them, sans the bumped messages so I can at least extract the advert details and save me the job of re-writing them?

Further, the deleted posts are far more than the FS threads. My entire posting history has been removed. Did you mean to do that as well?

Best,

X

[Administrator]

Sorry but they've all been deleted.

[Xeres]

With respect, I think thats a touch unfair. I have lost in excess of 300 posts. I didn't bump 300 posts, just 6 or 7 max. Is that standard practice on the forum?

[Huguenot]

There's isn't a 'standard practice' on the forum so far as I know.

The primary motivation in creating and maintaining the site is to create a community resource that will be open to all, and create value for all in equal measure.

If you unleashed a massive wave of self-serving ads designed to benefit or advantage yourself at the expense of other people (for example by boosting your own products above other people), then clearly you have taken these principles, cast them into the mud, ground them in with the heel of your shoe and probably pooed on them for good measure.

In doing so you will have created massive offence to all of the people who give their time freely to help the forum work.

It sounds to me like that is what you paid the penalty for - and you probably should have considered that before you went all 'me me me' ;-)

Best recommendation is probably to accept that having to rewrite all your ads is a tiny price to pay for an act that you likely knew to be entirely inappropriate when you did it.

I'd accept it with good grace, and be grateful you're not banned.

[Administrator]

Why do you put "FS:" in front of your new posts? It's the For Sale section and it's meant to be a fair and level playing field but again you're trying to promote yours above other peoples'. Stop it.

I'm going to amend the titles.

[Xeres]

Good morning.

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's isn't a 'standard practice' on the forum

> so far as I know.

>

> The primary motivation in creating and maintaining

> the site is to create a community resource that

> will be open to all, and create value for all in

> equal measure.

There is nothing in your message I disagree with concerning the culture and community aspect of this site. Indeed, I wholly support the removal and banning of spam posting. I have been member here for over 2 years and have given time to help other members and sell items without disruption. I have never received a complaint or stern message from anyone on the matter.

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you unleashed a massive wave of self-serving

> ads designed to benefit or advantage yourself at

> the expense of other people (for example by

> boosting your own products above other people),

> then clearly you have taken these principles, cast

> them into the mud, ground them in with the heel of

> your shoe and probably pooed on them for good

> measure.

>

> In doing so you will have created massive offence

> to all of the people who give their time freely to

> help the forum work.

>

> It sounds to me like that is what you paid the

> penalty for - and you probably should have

> considered that before you went all 'me me me'

> ;-)

I feel that you have significantly exaggerated and drawn incorrect conclusions from what has taken place here. I had 2-3 items posted from a few months back which I still had. I also had 2-3 new items. I posted a 'bump' message on the old items and listed the new ones but which then left with them all bunched together at the top of the FS section. I don't think it is fair to categorise this as being 'me me me' and it certainly was not intended to be at the expense of others. Is there a rule about the frequency of being able to list items in the FS section? I would welcome clarification on this for the future.

I didn't realise that bumping was not allowed, as I made clear above and apologised if inappropriate. I have done it in the past with no consequence. I am also mindful that when I have done this, that I don't just bump every 2-3 days. Weeks are left in between as otherwise I would wholeheartedly are this was spamming. In any event, if it's against the rules then it does not matter - I hope my apologies were sufficient and would welcome clarification on this.

The point I'm making here is I'm not spamming. In fact, I had a number of PMs concerning the stuff in question - 26 PMs in total since the 23/8/2014, when I listed the goods. My listings weren't spam, they were genuine sales and clearly of interest to members. I also haven't received any complaints to date, or indeed am aware of any so would be interested to know what motivations were behind this.

For the avoidance of all doubt, none of the above was done at the expense of others and I reject that in the strongest possible terms.

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do you put "FS:" in front of your new posts?

> It's the For Sale section and it's meant to be a

> fair and level playing field but again you're

> trying to promote yours above other peoples'. Stop

> it.

>

> I'm going to amend the titles.

My apologies if I have caused offence with the titling of my threads. I disagree that I am trying to promote mine beyond anyone else's threads with having a self-styled title. I have always done it, wherever I have posted and without complaint until now.

I'm really struggling to see why I am being singled out here. I have been a part of this community for two years and never had a problem. My entire history has been wiped - not just my apparently contentious FS threads but my entire posting history.

Admin - It may be your site, you may be one of a group of Admins. Either way I feel what you have done here is completely disproportionate.

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The primary motivation in creating and maintaining

> the site is to create a community resource that

> will be open to all, and create value for all in

> equal measure.

I agree with this statement although the actions taken on me are in direct contradiction to it. This site is managed under the meritocracy of Admin and the sites T&Cs. If putting up 6 FS threads and titling them as FS warrants a deletion of over 300 posts and all my previous threads at a time when the community was interested in those and active engaging with me on it positively without complaint, then there is a clear conflict with either the T&Cs or the enforcement approach.

I'm not even able to defend my character by demonstrating what my previous posts have been so all that is taking place here is drawn inferences on what I might have been - a malicious, selfish spammer who offensively creates "FS:" titled threads at the expense of other members posts, creating division and discord.

In any event, I suspect my name is now tarred and a banning is inevitable, alongside the deletion/amendment of this post as I have no faith it will be viewed with objectivity or fairness in hand given what has taken place to date.

Having said that, I do hope you leave this message, this thread and the rest of my posts untouched going forward and let other members have an opinion on the issue (on the proviso I ensure no breach of the T&Cs I may inadvertently break of course).

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd accept it with good grace, and be grateful you're not banned.

I don't accept it at all and think other members should have the opportunity to debate this, Admin allowing. If I have breached the T&Cs of this forum, then a warning notice would suffice and the articles causing the breach removed. If this was a true community website, banning is appropriate for offenders who wilfully and knowingly flout those rules following at least one warning and that ban being temporary and then escalating to permanent if repeated again, unless the offence is seriously grave. Anything else is simply disproportionate.

Best,

X

[Jeli]

Very well said, Xeres.

I personally find it shocking that a member of Admin would go to such draconian lengths and delete your entire posting history for the sake of a couple of posts that apparently weren't in accordance with the T&Cs. Surely just remove or amend the offending posts (if that's indeed what they were).

Quite frankly, I find incredible what some people will do when bestowed with even the smallest amount of 'power'.

[Otta]

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why do you put "FS:" in front of your new posts?

> It's the For Sale section and it's meant to be a

> fair and level playing field but again you're

> trying to promote yours above other peoples'. Stop

> it.

>

> I'm going to amend the titles.

Have to say that I find this pretty harsh. I would always put "For Sale" or FS at the start of a title if I was flogging something, it just seems perfectly natural.

[Otta]

Because it's the for sale or offered section so I tend to put "for sale" or "offered free".

[Xeres]

All these threads have been posted in the last few days with FS/For Sale at the front:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1376760

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1358242

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1358242

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383887

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383891

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383893

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1379635

And these have looking back farther in history:

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1381145

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383748

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1362097

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383515

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1382307

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,1383380

Not that I feel Like I've been singled out for any reason...

[Administrator]

Hey, I did not delete your messages because you put FS in the title. I deleted your messages because you were bumping up your messages, continuously.

I just get annoyed that people break the simple rules. Does it really matter that all your old for sale posts have been deleted? There were a couple of requests for recommendations but all the rest were you selling things, it's not like I deleted swathes of "community actively engaging with you".

You'll not be banned, and this thread will stay up, it makes good discussion and I learn from them, as can others.

And Jeli,if you were someone who followed the rules then I would take your comments on board, but I notice you're a prolific bumper upper of your posts http://bit.ly/1qRkvNt and you like writing for sale in capitals. Please stop it of go and sell your stuff somewhere else.

[minder]

Hi Xeres, I've had some of my For Sale posts deleted in the past because I posted each item on it's own. I now keep everything in one post, even if the items are totally different. I just keep on a continuous thread, especially as you can only post 3 photos each post.

Somebody must have complained about one (or all) of your posts for Admin to delete them.

[Xeres]

Hi Minder

Thanks for the tip. I guess the only question that raises is then one repeatedly bumping their thread with new items. See Admins comment above:

"...I deleted your messages because you were bumping up your messages, continuously."

Admin have confirmed that my posts were for repeated bumping so I'm unclear as to whether what you are currently doing is acceptable under the site T&Cs.

Admin, I'd welcome clarification on this as I am sure would Minder.

Admin has also made it clear why they deleted my posts and it wasn't because of a complaint - it was very much a personal choice judging by the tone of their response.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, thanks.

[Xeres]

Hi Admin.

To reply to your points:

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey, I did not delete your messages because you

> put FS in the title. I deleted your messages

> because you were bumping up your messages,

> continuously.

I'm clear that you did not delete them because of the 'FS' being in their title, you deleted them because they were bumped. I have no issue with this in principle if it is against the rules of the site and I have apologised in all my previous responses on this.

Regardless, frequency of bumping is important here and it is worthwhile stating that whilst my items were bumped, they were bumped once within a 3-4 week period for the three in question. I could have just taken the down and reposted but I thought it sensible and more appropriate to re-use existing threads. My posts were genuine, for goods that were still for sale, and the frequency of bumping not sufficient to be classed as interfering with peoples use of the forum.

The reality of what took place here is that I listed new items and bumped three threads at the same time which grouped my posts together. I could have done each one individually at different times but it seemed sensible to me to do this whilst I was on the forum - I was having a clear out and decided to move a few items on. You have taken issue with that on a personal level for whatever reason and chose not to just delete my posts, but to erase my entire history on this forum. Your anger and lack of objectivity is clear in your reply to me and the other forumite, Jeli:

> I just get annoyed that people break the simple

> rules.

> And Jeli,if you were someone who followed the

> rules then I would take your comments on board,

> but I notice you're a prolific bumper upper of

> your posts http://bit.ly/1qRkvNt and you like

> writing for sale in capitals. Please stop it of go

> and sell your stuff somewhere else.

You?re reply to Jeli is needlessly aggressive.

On inspection of Jeli's posts, you can see that they have done similarly to me - commented (bumped) posts that were 3-4 weeks old but that were still valid. You haven't received complaints, nor have you chosen to delete their entire posting history (and I sincerely hope you do not).

Jeli, I apologise in advance if there are subsequent consequences to your posts from my comment.

You also critique Jeli and I, but fail to enforce your restrictive posting principles on those threads that I have referenced above. Again, my apologies to any posters who may be impacted by my having drawn attention to this point.

> Does it really matter that all your old for

> sale posts have been deleted? There were a couple

> of requests for recommendations but all the rest

> were you selling things, it's not like I deleted

> swathes of "community actively engaging with

> you".

I pose the similar questions to you, Admin:

1) Does it really matter if a forum member bumps a for sale post 3-4 weeks when it is still for sale?

2) Does it really matter if a forum member lists a number of items for sale at the same time when they are all genuine postings?

To you, and let me be abundantly clear - you alone - apparently it does.

You asked me a question:

> Does it really matter that all your old for

> sale posts have been deleted?

It's a subjective opinion so difficult to quantify. what you can quantify though, is impact. Therefore I would like to propose to answer a different question:

3) If the answer to 1+2 is YES, what response has the correct balance of impact on the forum community:

- The deletion of a complete posting history; or

- A warning to be served on the member to educate them such that they do not do it again?

Those posts, by your own admission, included recommendations. They therefore do impact on other forum members who come to this forum looking for reliable tradespersons recommended by forum members who provide an honest and reliable account of their experiences. You have just stripped other members of that important information. Tradespersons whom I advised I would put a recommendation up have now lost that also thus impacting on their business interests.

As regards post interactions , I do believe they are important. Looking through peoples post history helps you to check their integrity on the forum if you are asking them for help or if they are asking something of you, or you them. It is as much an identity for others as it is to me.

> You'll not be banned, and this thread will stay

> up, it makes good discussion and I learn from

> them, as can others.

You reference learning, which I am impliedly reading as confirmation that you feel that deleting my entire posting history as a disproportionate response. If so, an apology would not go amiss. If not, then I fail to see where you have reflected on and learnt anything as your position and response remains consistent. I?d welcome a comment from you for clarification if this was the case.

*******

In sum, the issue is clear to me as evidenced above: You removed my posts because they 'annoyed' you. You take issue with me, and others who are sympathetic to what you have done to my account, for writing 'For Sale, FS etc' or using capitals within our thread titles despite this not being a forum rule or a terms or condition of the site.

But most importantly, you enforce only against those who have annoyed you as is clear with my referenced posts above.

One is simply unable to interpret such conduct as anything other than objective, fair or indeed respectful of the members of a forum whom you rely on, and whom your advertisers pay for.

I certainly hope there is room for you to reflect in consideration of that.

[Administrator]

More discussion on this point here: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,1383994

Anyway, my wife just left me and headed off to the Caribbean.

[alice]

Jamaica?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

No, she went of her own accord.

Boom, tish!

[Administrator]

Actually it was the Bahamas ;-)

[Jeli]

Administrator Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And Jeli,if you were someone who followed the

> rules then I would take your comments on board,

> but I notice you're a prolific bumper upper of

> your posts http://bit.ly/1qRkvNt and you like

> writing for sale in capitals. Please stop it of go

> and sell your stuff somewhere else.

Is this sort of aggressive commentary appropriate for an Administrator? I would suggest not.

Surely your role is to advise those of any non-compliance and teach them how to be a better member of the EDF community? Now that I am aware that some of my posts were not in accordance with the T&Cs, I will certainly make sure that those in the future are. I am positive any reasonable person would do so too if they were advised of the same.

Let me ask you - did you advise Xeres that his posts had breached the rules before deleting his entire posting history? Did he have any warning whatsoever of what you were about to do so that he could alter his posting behaviour accordingly? His upset seems to suggest not.

Do you intend to delete all of the messages of every individual in the 'For Sale' section that has 'FS' or 'For Sale' at the front of their listing - because about a third of all listings on that section do so. Or were you simply in a bad mood the day that Xeres did that and so took it out on him?

The behaviour of the Administrator here appears to be entirely dictatorial with no opportunity for a forum member to improve behaviour before being unnecessarily penalised. As I said before, it never fails to shock me the lengths that an individual will go to in order to exercise even the tiniest amount of power - particularly when protected by the anonymity of an internet forum. I hope causing upset to a fellow forum member made you feel good about yourself.

[snooproggydog]

A positive to start: This forum is great. In particular the for sale section. Well done to all involved.

Admin: It was a bit of a harsh reaction, maybe just give people a warning in future? The guy posted in the 'for sale' section with stuff 'for sale'. Yea, ok so bumping stuff to the top was a little bit cheeky but It's not exactly spam.

Sorry for your loss but it's a first world problem right? Take a breath and move on.

Alice and Peckhamgatecrasher: Epic delivery. If that was organic I bow down in admiration!

[Loz]

snooproggydog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Admin: It was a bit of a harsh reaction, maybe just give people a warning in future? The guy

> posted in the 'for sale' section with stuff 'for sale'. Yea, ok so bumping stuff to the top was a

> little bit cheeky but It's not exactly spam.

The rules (and what happens when you breach them) are clearly laid out in a sticky post at the top of the forum, which has been read over 35,000 times.

The most frequently broken rules which result in the removal/editing of all your ads without a polite warning:

- Do not type the subject title in capital letters or use excessive punctuation.

- There has to be a connection to East Dulwich e.g. Someone from Madrid offering their holiday villa in Madrid gets deleted.

- Do not repetitively post about what you're selling.

- Do not continually post messages to get your item for sale back to the top of the list (when 14 posts did this in one day we decided to put a stop to it). Excessive "still for sale" posters will have all their messages deleted without warning.

- If you are selling multiple items i.e more than three please do it in one post, not a post for each one.

- People continuously selling nickable electronic items i.e. phones may have their accounts suspended.

- Animals can only be sold if there's a link to them listed on another reputable website.

The rules are clear, the punishment is clear. So the OP can have no complaint, really.