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messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by rendelharris 15 November, 2016 20:11

First ever post, from someone who joined within three days of suffernot. Hmm...

As for people being bullies, "You are a reactionary foul-mouthed left-wing bigot. And a tosspot" isn't exactly pleasant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:11:15:20:12:59 by rendelharris.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Sue 15 November, 2016 20:21

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> red devil Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wonder if the Super Moon has brought out the
> > Lupine among us...
>
>
> ..... it's been a while smiling smiley


Ah. A particular Lupine. Duh.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Sue 15 November, 2016 20:24

PollyGlot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jah Lush Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Just carry on making a tit of yourself. I've
> other
> > things to do. Byeeeeeeeeee!
>
> Me thinks Jah Lush is a typical bully. Lots of
> swearing, posturing and bravado. But like all
> bullies he quits when he gets a real challenge.



Strange "first post", PollyGlot.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by niall 15 November, 2016 20:52

Geezers across the road from Franklins seem sound. Had a good cut in therea few times.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by rendelharris 15 November, 2016 21:31

Now PollyGlot's second ever post is...well blow me down, to support suffer-not's anti-grey squirrel post from weeks back! Really making it a wee bit obvious, Pollysuffer.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by singalto 15 November, 2016 21:33

Why is it that when someone starts off a perfectly calm and useful thread, others feel the need to highjack it and exchange abuses? The OP was telling us about an unpleasant experience at the barber's but the nastiness which has followed has totally bemused me.

messageRe: Mem's Barbers - homophobia, racism and a bad haircut
Posted by peckham_ryu 15 November, 2016 21:44

Sorry everyone, but can we get back to what's important here please?

the_gamechanger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did he say where he got the pills from?

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Jah Lush 15 November, 2016 22:02

PollyGlot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jah Lush Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Just carry on making a tit of yourself. I've
> other
> > things to do. Byeeeeeeeeee!
>
> Me thinks Jah Lush is a typical bully. Lots of
> swearing, posturing and bravado. But like all
> bullies he quits when he gets a real challenge.

*Waves at PollyGlot*

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Jeremy 16 November, 2016 09:28

PollyGlot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me thinks Jah Lush is a typical bully. Lots of
> swearing, posturing and bravado. But like all
> bullies he quits when he gets a real challenge.

Oh yeah, that "suffer-not" guy is a REAL challenge. Probably shouldn't even bother trying to engage such a towering intellect.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by titch juicy 16 November, 2016 12:47

For goodness sake folks- calm down.

There's nothing in suffernots post that is racist or bigoted. It was all said in a friendly non-offensive manner.

It seems the term 'immigrant chap' has caused some folks to lose their shit.

Where's the difference in that or calling someone a black chap in an African Barbers (you don't need to specify whether he was from Kenya, or Nigeria or even Africa even if you did know his nationality)?

Are we also not allowed to call people tourists now too? Do we have to specify their nationality of known?

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by drewd 17 November, 2016 00:03

The opening poster raised a serious issue that several people were able to relate to. I would never have known others felt uncomfortable at Mem's the way I did unless he had posted because I don't know enough people locally to have chats about the merits of different barbers. That's one of the good things about this forum.

I hope the thread has warned people to avoid the place - or given them the courage to be assertive about demanding more respect as customers.

It's a real shame it got hijacked by the other stuff. (and no, referring to someone by their immigrant status is not very cool.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:11:17:00:05:22 by drewd.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by red devil 17 November, 2016 13:52

titch juicy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems the term 'immigrant chap' has caused some
> folks to lose their shit.

The problem is that 'immigrant', along with 'refugee', is becoming a derogatory term, even in the playground it's become an insult. As with anything it's all about context, but I suspect the poster who used that term knew exactly what they were writing...

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by WrightC 17 November, 2016 23:47

tutorse22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Suffer-not I have not been rude to you and I
> would ask you please not to be rude to me either.
> I do not expect to change your mind in a brief
> exchange on an internet forum, but I'm still going
> to put this out there for whatever small benefit
> it may be.
>
> - If you know the person's provenance, in this
> case Syria, it would be more respectful and
> accurate to call him "Syrian", or, "Syrian chap"
> if you must -- although I draw your attention to
> the "dated" in the OED definition, and ask you to
> consider that the colloquial use of this word in
> 2016 is different to what it was long ago.
>
> - If you know the person's provenance -- whether
> it be Syrian, French, Nigerian, Australian, or
> wherever - and continue to call him an "immigrant
> chap", ask yourself why are not calling him or her
> by his/her nationality.
>
> - Think of another person who is an immigrant.
> Think, perhaps, of a friend who has emigrated to
> Australia for the good weather. Would you call him
> an "immigrant chap"? If not, why not? What about a
> white French guy working in Goldman Sachs in New
> York. Is he an "immigrant chap"? If not, why not?

Well said.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by pop9770 18 November, 2016 13:45

The "Elephant" in the Barbers

Very sad I had a similar experience at a Barbers in Crystal Palace

Difficult not to associate the comments and attitude with certain factors (can't mention them in public for fear of being labeled and branded).

Oh well I'll be dead in 40 - 60 years between now and then it's going to be an interesting ride change is happening on a monthly basis Trump Brexit it's awesome like a real life soap opera only more bizarre .

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by monica 18 November, 2016 19:24

Before we moved away, my hubby used the barbers just opposite Bells Kitchens, he always found them very pleasant and conversed with them lightheartedly, as you would in a Barbers.
Hope you are feeling better Jim1234, it can be quite intimidating when that happens, first its rude to speak another language in front of someone who does not speak the language and second you did the right thing by calling them out on it ..

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly 18 November, 2016 20:46

monica Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>first its
> rude to speak another language in front of someone
> who does not speak the language

Don't talk rubbish.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by titch juicy 19 November, 2016 06:48

red devil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> titch juicy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > It seems the term 'immigrant chap' has caused
> some
> > folks to lose their shit.
>
> The problem is that 'immigrant', along with
> 'refugee', is becoming a derogatory term, even in
> the playground it's become an insult. As with
> anything it's all about context, but I suspect the
> poster who used that term knew exactly what they
> were writing...

I really didn't get that from their post and I'm usually very sensitive to such things. But I could be completely wrong of course. And I genuinely didn't realise that it had become a term of abuse. I could picture it in the playground I suppose, but among adults?! Blimey.

messageRe: Mem's Barbers - homophobia, racism and a bad haircut
Posted by Northeastview 19 November, 2016 07:34

peckham_ryu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry everyone, but can we get back to what's
> important here please?
>
> the_gamechanger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Did he say where he got the pills from?

Can I second that? There is an important message buried here somewhere

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by DulwichFox 19 November, 2016 09:25

Let me try and make some sort of sense out of all this..

Turkey relies on Tourism.. Travelers from all over the world visit Turkey every year.
In the 30 years I have been traveling to Turkey I have not come across blatent hostility with foreign tourists.
I am not fluent in Turkish but can pick out most of the 'vulgar' terms and words being spoken.

But.. The Turks young and old seem to be obsessed with big willies and (taking it up the batty.) as the OP posted.
Any one who has travelled to Turkey or Greece would of seen the statues in the Museums there.

Talking about these things are a bit 'Rude' Like small children here say ' Bum ' and giggle..

I do not think that the guys at Mems are being intentionally Homophobic.
I have spoken to 100's of young Turkish waiters many of which will be appauled at people using offensive language in their bars.

The reference to the Abreviated Pakistani word was not about the Race but what they were supposedly selling .
I do not think The staff at Mems were being intentionally Racist.

The Pills.. Turkey is awash with 'V iagra' I'm not too sure if it is available over the Pharmacy counter.
But there is 'Mock' V iagra everywhere.. In every shop... market...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5145/5649095039_7c3ab22570.jpg

I think this whole thread needs to be re-assessed and conclusions not jumped too.

DulwichFox



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:11:19:09:26:52 by DulwichFox.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Sue 19 November, 2016 09:43

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> monica Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >first its
> > rude to speak another language in front of
> someone
> > who does not speak the language

>
> Don't talk rubbish.


It's not rubbish.

It's quite clearly rude, and particularly when the other people are customers.

A friend of mine once overheard herself being discussed by two complete strangers sitting near her on a train. They were somewhat taken aback when she spoke to them in the same (quite obscure) language.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Sue 19 November, 2016 09:58

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me try and make some sort of sense out of all
> this..
>
> Turkey relies on Tourism.. Travelers from all over
> the world visit Turkey every year.
> In the 30 years I have been traveling to Turkey I
> have not come across blatent hostility with
> foreign tourists.
> I am not fluent in Turkish but can pick out most
> of the 'vulgar' terms and words being spoken.
>
> But.. The Turks young and old seem to be obsessed
> with big willies and (taking it up the batty.) as
> the OP posted.
> Any one who has travelled to Turkey or Greece
> would of seen the statues in the Museums there.
>
> Talking about these things are a bit 'Rude' Like
> small children here say ' Bum ' and giggle..
>
> I do not think that the guys at Mems are being
> intentionally Homophobic.
> I have spoken to 100's of young Turkish waiters
> many of which will be appauled at people using
> offensive language in their bars.
>
> The reference to the Abreviated Pakistani word was
> not about the Race but what they were supposedly
> selling .
> I do not think The staff at Mems were being
> intentionally Racist.
>
> The Pills.. Turkey is awash with 'V iagra' I'm
> not too sure if it is available over the Pharmacy
> counter.
> But there is 'Mock' V iagra everywhere.. In every
> shop... market...
>
> [c2.staticflickr.com]
> ab22570.jpg
>
> I think this whole thread needs to be re-assessed
> and conclusions not jumped too.
>

I don't know what tourism in Turkey and the lack of hostility to tourists has to do with anything. We are talking about a barbers in East Dulwich.

I don't know how you can possibly know whether they intended to be intentionally homophobic or not!

Quite regardless of whether what you say about Turkey is generally true (and I've been to Turkey and didn't come across anything like that) if people are running a business in this country which involves face-to-face contact with customers, then they should be sensitive to how what they say is likely to be received.

The statues in the museums are quite irrelevant. You find the same in Greece. Yes they sell replicas as a bit of fun for the tourists with smutty minds and a childish sense of humour, but that is a completely different issue. How you can possibly say that because of that, "Turks seem to be obsessed with big willies" is absolutely beyond me.

And quite apart from the homophobic issues, you say "The reference to the Abbreviated Pakistani word was not about the race but what they were supposedly selling."

Surely you must realise that talking about "Pakis in the street" is just not acceptable.

Several people on this thread have said that they felt uncomfortable in that barbers. Are you suggesting that they should not have done?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:11:19:10:07:12 by Sue.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by jim_the_chin 19 November, 2016 10:15

This whole problem could be avoided if they and other barbers followed the golden rule: the only thing that a gentleman should have with his haircut is complete and utter silence.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by edcase 19 November, 2016 12:18

Indeed jim. Who was it that replied, upon being asked how he would like his hair cut,'in complete silence please'.

...oh god, that was Enoch Powell. Forget I mentioned it...

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by DulwichFox 19 November, 2016 12:21

I would not expect Sue to understand or agree with me on any subject even if I said The Ivy House was a great place
Sue would simply see DulwichFox and the Ivy House and assume I was slagging it off.

Having studied the Turkish language and culture on a three year course and visiting the country on numerous occasions
over the last 25-30 years I have a good insight into the people and their up-bringing.

I talk to the Turkish community in East Dulwich in restaurants and have some Turkish friends..

We call people from Afghanistan Afghanis not Afghanistanis. It is grammatically correct.
..and so is true of Pakistanis.. The abbreviated version of Pakistani became offensive by it's use by far right groups.

When I was a kid.. 1960. on a Sunday my mum might say.

"Michael.. we've run out of milk.. can go round the P**** shop. They'll still be open."
She was not being racist.. offensive. Did not mean anything.

We have become obsessed with P.C. there used to be a road sign .. 'Accident Black Spot.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2528/4225113927_ba7585aabd_z.jpg?zz=1

I believe it is now banned..

DulwichFox

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Zebedee Tring 19 November, 2016 12:23

< A friend of mine once overheard herself being discussed by two complete strangers sitting near her on a train. They were somewhat taken aback when she spoke to them in the same (quite obscure) language >

My Welsh daughter in law is bilingual and was able to respond in Welsh in strong terms to a couple of women in a restaurant who were slagging off in Welsh a member of our family who had said something quite innocuous in English to which the women had for some reason taken exception.

If barbers, supermarket check out people etc talk to their colleagues in a language that the customer doesn't understand, they could easily be slagging off the customer who will be none the wiser. This is unacceptable, to put it politely.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Louisa 19 November, 2016 14:47

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would not expect Sue to understand or agree with
> me on any subject even if I said The Ivy House was
> a great place
> Sue would simply see DulwichFox and the Ivy House
> and assume I was slagging it off.
>
> Having studied the Turkish language and culture
> on a three year course and visiting the country on
> numerous occasions
> over the last 25-30 years I have a good insight
> into the people and their up-bringing.
>
> I talk to the Turkish community in East Dulwich
> in restaurants and have some Turkish friends..
>
> We call people from Afghanistan Afghanis not
> Afghanistanis. It is grammatically correct.
> ..and so is true of Pakistanis.. The abbreviated
> version of Pakistani became offensive by it's use
> by far right groups.
>
> When I was a kid.. 1960. on a Sunday my mum
> might say.
>
> "Michael.. we've run out of milk.. can go round
> the P**** shop. They'll still be open."
> She was not being racist.. offensive. Did not
> mean anything.
>
> We have become obsessed with P.C. there used to
> be a road sign .. 'Accident Black Spot.
>
> [c1.staticflickr.com]
> 585aabd_z.jpg?zz=1
>
> I believe it is now banned..
>
> DulwichFox


Foxy I do agree the world has become P.C. mad, and I'm sure in certain circumstances the use of certain words is all about context and who is using them. Not every single person using an offensive word is knowingly being nasty about a group of people. However, in this day and age, with everything that has gone on and in the world it would be incredibly naive for an individual who is not part of any said minority, to then use a phrase which has become synonymous with racism and far right groups, and then hold their hands up and say "not me guv", wouldn't you agree? If a Pakistani friend of theirs was getting their haircut in the barbers and they used the phrase to him and everyone laughed it would be an entirely different context, arguably.

On the topic of Sue I do have to agree though, every time I say or do anything these days Sue seems to disagree with me for whatever reason. Even when I'm being impassioned on a topic that means something to me. The burger joint 'look at me' thread being a perfect example of this. I dot think she often agrees with me or you on anything. I know it's all fun and games on the forum, but just a genuine observation. Sue, would you like to comment?

Louisa.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by monica 19 November, 2016 18:44

Excuse me!!! I guess your not polite then, I am bi lingual and would never speak Italian in front on people who do not understand the language. So no I am not talking rubbish. Eeejit


Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> monica Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >first its
> > rude to speak another language in front of
> someone
> > who does not speak the language
>
> Don't talk rubbish.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by rendelharris 19 November, 2016 21:08

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We have become obsessed with P.C. there used to
> be a road sign .. 'Accident Black Spot.

>
> I believe it is now banned..
>
> DulwichFox

Urban myth Fox, they were either removed when safety measures (traffic calming, safety cameras etc) lowered the accident rate or were replaced with the generally agreed to be more effective "18 fatalities on this road since 1999" or similar signs. They were never banned and nothing to do with any political correctness - the term "accident blackspot" is still in current use and I've never seen anyone suggest it shouldn't be. It's like the old story that the GLC banned people from asking for "black coffee" in County Hall - just didn't happen.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly 19 November, 2016 21:25

monica Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excuse me!!! I guess your not polite then, I am bi
> lingual and would never speak Italian in front on
> people who do not understand the language. So no I
> am not talking rubbish. Eeejit

You don't have a right to other people's conversations. What an overblown sense of entitlement you people have. If you don't speak the language I feel like speaking to someone that's not you, you don't get to hear it. This is one of the most linguistically diverse cities on earth. You're not going to get far huffing and puffing and insisting that other people only speak a language that you know when you're around.

messageRe: ED Barber - homophobia? racism? and a bad haircut
Posted by Jah Lush 19 November, 2016 22:16

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When I was a kid.. 1960. on a Sunday my mum
> might say.
>
> "Michael.. we've run out of milk.. can go round
> the P**** shop. They'll still be open."
> She was not being racist.. offensive. Did not
> mean anything.

Oh dear me, tut tut tut...Yes it did. Sheer ignorance. The people running the shop could have been Bengali, Indian, Sri Lankan, Ugandan Asian etc etc, though it is entirely within the realms of possibility they were actually from Pakistan but it is also quite possible that your mother didn't bother to find out where they were from or any other person using that awful term back then but called them P***s anyway because of the colour of their skin. It was then and it is even more so now offensive and racist and this isn't the 1960s.

As for your Accident Black Spot sign... deary me. You silly old sausage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:11:20:01:04:58 by Jah Lush.

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