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The East Dulwich Forum
Coffee tastes best at... Blue Mountain? Caffe Nero? The East Dulwich Cafe?
messageJeremy Hunt
Posted by JohnL January 09, 04:33PM

Well Theresa May seemed to say she would help people with mental health this morning

This afternoon Jeremy Hunt told everyone to stop going to A&E (he thinks you're all hypochondriacs)

If you all stop going there for your minor ailments he'll hit his 4 hour target

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Otta January 09, 05:12PM

I have tried to stop tory bashing for the sake of it. But Hunt and Patel both really do come across as feckin useless, and really unpleasant.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by singalto January 09, 06:44PM

People do go to A&E who do not need to.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Abe_froeman January 09, 06:54PM

I had the misfortune to be stuck in a queue on lordship lane recently behind a lady who was explaining very loudly to someone on her mobile phone that she'd had to take her child to a and e because her gp didnt know anything, she'd checked the symptoms on google and he was wrong.

The idiots at a and e didn't know anythimg either apparently.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by ianr January 09, 07:17PM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This afternoon Jeremy Hunt told everyone to stop going to A&E (he thinks you're all hypochondriacs)

From today's Hansard, uncorrected version:

"This Government are committed to maintaining and delivering that vital four-hour commitment to patients, but since it was announced in 2000, there are nearly 9 million more visits to our A&Es, up to 30% of which NHS England estimates do not need to be made, and the tide is continuing to rise. If we are going to protect our four-hour standard, we need to be clear that it is a promise to sort out all urgent health problems within four hours, but not all health problems, however minor. As Professor Keith Willett, NHS Englandís medical director for acute care, has said, no country in the world has a standard for all health problems, however small, and if we are to protect services for the most vulnerable, nor can we." [hansard.parliament.uk]

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by jaywalker January 09, 07:23PM

singalto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People do go to A&E who do not need to.

and if he keeps going on about it there is a danger that people who need to won't. health care has always to balance type 1 and type 2 errors of this sort: there is no optimum (unless everyone is to take a medical degree and get years of further experience). As with juries, better that everyone goes to a and e with a wrong self-diagnosis (letting people off who did it) than that people with need of treatment stay at home (the innocent being convicted). a good principle for both juries and triage.

I wonder if the Prime Minister has even the first idea about mental health. I think not. She is going to train teachers to spot it - well, good luck - and provide more internet advice for those who think they may have a problem - er, right! And this is worth headline policy news??

And to be clear in response to ianr, if you were in charge of the health service you would put in place pre-triage at all a and e sites, no? e.g. a GP on duty at each site all the time. But they haven't have they? So they want a standard for something "vital" but are too incompetent to provide its resolution without blaming the people who think they may need treatment. Dear God.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was january 09, 07:28pm by jaywalker.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by malumbu January 09, 08:42PM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had the misfortune to be stuck in a queue on
> lordship lane recently behind a lady who was
> explaining very loudly to someone on her mobile
> phone that she'd had to take her child to a and e
> because her gp didnt know anything, she'd checked
> the symptoms on google and he was wrong.
>
> The idiots at a and e didn't know anythimg either
> apparently.

Any your an idiot too. How dare you criticise people working to look after your health and well-being. You are an even bigger hunt than Hunt.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by rahrahrah January 09, 09:43PM

I think you missed Abe's meaning Malumbu. He's mocking the person in the queue not agreeing with them.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by JohnL January 09, 09:46PM

There seem to be two types of people those who will go and those who avoid going
(I got told my kidneys were so dehydrated I'd come close to damaging them once
after turning up for what turned out to be an emergency (adhesions which caused a
total blockage)).

But Hunt tends to be rather nasty sometimes (like today) - wonder if he's actually
playing bad cop. Anyway after treating the public like children someone explained
that what he was trying to say was that if you are not an emergency don't expect to
be treated in 4 hours (triage tell I suppose),

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by rendelharris January 09, 09:53PM

Bit of the wrong end of the stick there malumbu, I think...

Having spent far too much time in A&E with broken bones (rugby and motorcycles, ah happy days of youth!) and latterly being sent there by GPs with other nonsense (ah, miserable days of middle age!), yes of course some people go to A&E with stupid complaints. Once sat there all night with a broken wrist while a girl was admitted before me with what turned out to be period pains...but there are two things which could be done, first of all better triage to winnow out the timewasters, and secondly better GP provision so people didn't go there in a panic (the aforementioned girl's mother was worried she might have appendicitis and couldn't get a GP appointment) when they have nowhere else to turn. Stupid Hunt (yes that is rhyming slang) would only have a right to castigate A&E "timewasters" if non-emergency provision was up to scratch, which it can't be when the government are operating a slash and burn policy on the NHS.

Just for the record, from long experience, the A&E staff at King's are the most wonderful, long suffering, patient and dedicated people I've ever come across. If any of you happen to be on this forum, thank you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 09, 10:04pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Loz January 10, 01:06AM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Abe_froeman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I had the misfortune to be stuck in a queue on
> > lordship lane recently behind a lady who was
> > explaining very loudly to someone on her mobile
> > phone that she'd had to take her child to a and
> e
> > because her gp didnt know anything, she'd
> checked
> > the symptoms on google and he was wrong.
> >
> > The idiots at a and e didn't know anythimg
> either
> > apparently.
>
> Any your an idiot too. How dare you criticise
> people working to look after your health and
> well-being. You are an even bigger hunt than
> Hunt.

Oh dear, malambu. You've made yourself look a bit Jeremy Huntish there!

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Jeremy January 10, 08:56AM

Totally agree rendel, the GP service is a shambles. When people phone their GP with a legitimate complaint, only to be told that there are no available appointments, period (no pun intended)... I cannot really blame people for turning to A&E.

And yes, the triage process could filter out the people who don't need hospital treatment, maybe refer them to a pharmacist, etc.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Townleygreen January 10, 10:22AM

Some hospitals have this system....Princess Royal down between Bromley and Orpington (run by King's) has a triage system that either sends you into A & E if it is serious, or into Urgent Care which is run by GPs if it's not so serious.
I still had to wait four hours in A&E though!

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Otta January 10, 10:38AM

We need more drop in centres. A few weeks back I messed up my knee. Went to Beckenham Beacon on a Saturday. Within 90 minutes of arriving I'd been seen by a physio, x-rayed, returned to the physio and issued a pair of crutches and sent home. Was very impressed.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Jeremy January 10, 10:57AM

Another good point Otta, more drop-in centres would really ease the load on A&E.

There's one in New Cross, which has been really useful a few times. Unfortunately the Lister Centre in Peckham stopped doing drop-ins a while ago - although I think you can ask your GP to refer you there if they have nothing available.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by rahrahrah January 10, 11:17AM

It's really hard to get a GP appointment and there are very few drop in centres (as Jeremy says, they've stopped doing drop-ins at the Lister Centre). People will invariably resort to visiting A&E in the absence of reasonable alternatives.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Seabag January 10, 11:29AM

Jeremy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally agree rendel, the GP service is a
> shambles. When people phone their GP with a
> legitimate complaint, only to be told that there
> are no available appointments, period (no pun
> intended)... I cannot really blame people for
> turning to A&E.
>
> And yes, the triage process could filter out the
> people who don't need hospital treatment, maybe
> refer them to a pharmacist, etc.


Couldn't agree more.

I manage my asthma well, but at times I need to be seen pretty pronto. Things like high pollen count can hit me, maiking my meds run out quick, or the need for steriods/antibiotics. To be offered something 'next week' isn't helpful.

So i've resorted to using Beckhanam beacon, and buying my ventolin inhalers from the pharmacist. And on occasions i've been to A&E. But in practice that shouldn't happen, I feel like i'm wasting their time, not that they ever say so.

A few years ago this wasn't the case. The upside of late is my local surgery has just employed an Asthma nurse, and i've been invited to an "Asthma coffee morning" which should be a wheeze.

So some hope is on the horizon, in Sydenham anyway

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Otta January 10, 11:55AM

Seabag, I suspect I use the same practice as you (haven't changed since moving from Sydenham). I find it very frustrating trying to get an appointment, and the reception staff REALLY wind me up.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by uncleglen January 10, 12:11PM

If you go to A and E they give you free pills (they gave me free Ibuprofen for a knee injury once) If you go to the GP or the pharmacy (who WILL sell you something regardless- I tested them out once) it costs you money. Also if you are not entitled the GP won't see you but the A and E will treat you....

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Loz January 10, 12:34PM

Seabag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A few years ago this wasn't the case. The upside of late is my local surgery has just employed an
> Asthma nurse, and i've been invited to an "Asthma coffee morning" which should be a wheeze.

Chortle. Very good.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Mick Mac January 10, 12:48PM

We all make mistakes malumbu - wouldn't worry about it.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by JohnL January 10, 01:19PM

Hunt having an embarrassing time on Sky News apparently.

Running away (he walks fast mind)

Edit: (actually sounds like he may have been given a rollocking)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 10, 01:30pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by jaywalker January 10, 07:59PM

I wonder if the NHS is actually in greater crisis than even cynics like me ever thought possible.

Really, how can one have a clue unless you know someone who works there? Any patient is a particular - of no significance to the general pattern: they may or may not get quick and good treatment. But if you know someone who is tearing their hair out because they cannot provide the treatment they were trained to give, that there is a complete failure of management ...

It looks from leaks today that the government is entirely aware of the situation; I guess we will eventually call them to account ...

This is another catastrophe on the horizon from a forthcoming 'crackdown on immigration' so we can get 'our country back' and return to 'the way we used to live' without the labour we need to help an ageing population.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was january 10, 08:03pm by jaywalker.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by Otta January 10, 08:07PM


messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by jaywalker January 10, 08:18PM

Otta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.bbc.co.uk]


Ah, but the government spokesperson will say 'I don't recognise the picture': even if it is by one of their officially appointed Regulators.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was january 10, 08:20pm by jaywalker.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by 'bout now January 11, 01:05PM

Otta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have tried to stop tory bashing for the sake of
> it. But Hunt and Patel both really do come across
> as feckin useless, and really unpleasant.

You've left out Chris Grayling.

messageRe: Jeremy Hunt
Posted by malumbu January 11, 01:11PM

Grovelling unreserved apology for not reading an earlier post properly and my misdirected assault. I deserve my on-line kicking and will crawl away and hide for a few days. I am too embarrassed to look at it again.


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