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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by JohnL November 26, 11:59AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.pressreader.com]
> /281754155125191
>
> Haven't shopkeepers been told to arrest
> shoplifters
> themselves. Link above explains citizen arrest
> procedure that can be used. I remember hearing
> police
> May not attend if goods under a certain amount. I
> feel it was inevitable shopliftifting would become
> the norm, in connection and in the same way food
> banks have.

What if they then give a false name and/or address to security ?

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 26, 12:17PM

Johnl, A citizens arrest is to temporary detain until police
arrive, then usual id would be done by police.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by Angelina November 26, 03:05PM

I've been told by a friend who runs a shop that the police won't attend for theft

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by Sue November 26, 04:12PM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I
> feel it was inevitable shopliftifting would become
> the norm, in connection and in the same way food
> banks have.


But people are not stealing things like bread. According to the above they are taking things like steak.

That is greed, not need.

I doubt most of it has anything to do with food banks.

It seems to be opportunist theft, as took place during the riots.

ETA: Opportunist in the sense that they can see they can steal without being caught.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 26, 07:40pm by Sue.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 26, 09:20PM

Sue, i was not thinking of theft only witnessed in ED.
The reasons behind needing food banks, benefit delays,cuts etc, play a part in why many people are shop lifting.

[www.google.co.uk]

Here's a link to a FOI question regarding people stealing to eat, who have been through the judicial system. I would imagine this has brought about the change in how thesse cases are being dealt with.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by ianr November 26, 10:11PM

I would like to see the actual FOI question and full response.

The first person mentioned in the article you linked to had 245 previous convictions, btw. [www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk]. I doubt magistrates are generally keen on imprisoning people for minor offences. They also have the sentencing guidelines to adhere to.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 26, 10:32PM

Ianr, I wouldnt imagine magistrates are keen on imprisoning people in many of these cases hence why there is people being sent to food banks instead of being arrested, no charges being brought under a certain amount being stole. There have been numerous different suggestion about how these cases can be dealt with. As Sue says there will be oppertunist theft amongst cases of people who are genuinely hungry. You cannot just turn up at a food bank, there are independent food banks who are giving on a more individual level, where criteria is not so rigid.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by cella November 26, 11:32PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another example of hijacking a thread. Back on
> topic what, I wonder, is the role of security
> staff in stores? To act as a deterrent or are they
> instructed to ignore these seemingly brazen steals
> with, presumably the costs factored into the
> prices of food or to go for easier targets - what
> would be the point? Very hard to understand.


Does anyone know?

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by Sue November 27, 12:32AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
As Sue says there
> will be oppertunist theft amongst cases of people
> who are genuinely hungry.


I didn't actually mean people who are genuinely hungry, though no doubt some shoplifting is done from desperation.

I meant chancers who see an opportunity to get something for free either because they know nobody will bother to challenge them or because they know the police will not prosecute.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by JohnL November 27, 10:16AM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another example of hijacking a thread. Back on
> > topic what, I wonder, is the role of security
> > staff in stores? To act as a deterrent or are
> they
> > instructed to ignore these seemingly brazen
> steals
> > with, presumably the costs factored into the
> > prices of food or to go for easier targets -
> what
> > would be the point? Very hard to understand.
>
>
> Does anyone know?

Not let in people who are banned for previous theft suspicion ?

Rather doorman like role to be honest that.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 10:25AM

Sue, i understand what wou meant, there have always been people who have chanced shoplifting along with the chance if being imorisoned. I believe the social climate has brought about a more desperate, hungry kind of shoplifter. There have been deaths associated with benefit changes, i do nt want to go into individual cases of people who have died with nithing in there cupboards. This is also why food banks have become the norm as have suicides and terminally ill people dying in fear they may lose there house. I suppose it depends on how you see connections, whether that be from a distance or close up.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by Angelina November 27, 11:04AM

Some people may be motivated by hunger, but that alone does not make moral people steal. There are alternatives to theft, food banks being one.

What you do see is opportunistic theft - people who see an opportunity to get something for free for their own financial gain, be it cost avoidance or resell.

Police are not interested, security are interested to a point and shop staff are instructued to not interfere but they can use physical presence to deter (i.e. I can see you). Once off the premises, the thief is gone.

When people don't have money, this is an easy option.

At least it's not violent. The impact for most people is the costs being covered by higher prices.


The sad fact is, it's a reflection of society where people just don't give a hoot. The poor security guard in Primark who people just watched and filmed and laughed. There is a sense of entitlement people have and - serious to god - shoplifting from Primark? FFS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 27, 11:18am by Angelina.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 11:57AM

[www.google.co.uk]

Reading this link above it appears to be law, anyone caught stealing goods under Ł200, if charged, does not have to appear in court but can plead by letter. By home office statistics shoplifting is up by 23%, it does
not show an understanding of the problem as it is linked with a need to make cuts with policing, as has been said by other posters.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 01:01PM

[www.google.co.uk]

"Shoplifting" movie out this week.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 02:30PM

Can you believe it, its on at ED picturehouse today, ha ha ha.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by ontheedge November 27, 03:45PM

There was an excellent drama documentary back in the late 90s or early 2000’s set up North can’ remember the name but was set on an estate up North where people were living in what could be described as abject poverty and was called something like Sharon goes shopping, think it was on Channel 4 at a time when they were a little less mainstream. Can anyone remember it? it was not unlike a Ken Loach film

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 05:44PM

I can't remember that, but I grew up on an estate up north where almost everyone knew the local shoplifters, their families and their backgrounds. It wasn't out the norm to get a knock on your door, especially this time of year, asking if you wanted to order anything. They were your neighbours, friends and part of the community. It may seem easy to see things right or wrong but many people felt they would not manage, whether that was food, clothes or christmas presents. Not everyone needed them but i never heard anyone speak bad of them or report it. I remember
The local shop refusing to employ anyone from the estate, when they did they wouldnt charge the full price or give food for free cause they knew they were skint. It's not as simple as right or wrong all the time.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by Angelina November 27, 07:14PM

sorry, but it is theft and there are alternatives available to stealing because you're hungry - when is it ever right?.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 07:37PM

Angelina I suppose it depends who you ask, for example if you asked a mother whose grown up son starved to death after his benefits cut. Im sure she'd wouldn't have thought about the rights and wrongs.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by TE44 November 27, 07:48PM

A friend of mine, was given a voucher for the food bank, Peckham, he was hospitalised before using this, this coincided with his benefits being cut. On leaving
hospital he went to food bank waited a very long time, until being told his voucher had ran out. He had friends who helped, if he hadn't , yes I believe it would be understandable if he stole some food, as i've said it's not as simple as right or wrong.

messageRe: is Shoplifting now normal?
Posted by JohnL November 28, 10:08AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A friend of mine, was given a voucher for the food
> bank, Peckham, he was hospitalised before using
> this, this coincided with his benefits being cut.
> On leaving
> hospital he went to food bank waited a very long
> time, until being told his voucher had ran out. He
> had friends who helped, if he hadn't , yes I
> believe it would be understandable if he stole
> some food, as i've said it's not as simple as
> right or wrong.


Many people are only a few missing pay checks from that.

The boxes for food banks at work are full at the moment - it's only essentials for personal hygiene, tins, dried food etc not luxuries.

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