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messageUniversal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 November 30, 01:12PM

Stop the Universal Credit Rollout -
[www.change.org]

[www.mirror.co.uk]
----------------------------------------
Please comment Below On this Subject?!!!
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was december 10, 11:09pm by natty01295.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 01, 10:42PM

Stop the Rollout!!!!

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by hpsaucey December 02, 11:52AM

Signed - thanks for posting.

HP

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 02, 01:13PM

So what do you suggest they replace it with, if it was stopped? And if it was stopped (extremely unlikely with the amount invested in it's roll out), how do you think people will cope??????

The whole idea of the benefit is that they are paid jointly in arrears, the Government has already said that where people experience difficulties with this, they can be given an advance that they can then repay over 12 months.

The roll out will continue, they have put too much time and effort into the change already for them to retreat and change what is being done.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by JoeLeg December 02, 01:27PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The whole idea of the benefit is that they are
> paid jointly in arrears, the Government has
> already said that where people experience
> difficulties with this, they can be given an
> advance that they can then repay over 12 months.

Unfortunately this is where the introduction of the scheme has fallen apart. When people already on benefits end up being in rent arrears through no fault of their own it looks suspiciously like the government didnít think this entirely through. Universal Credit has not been a universal success so far.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by rendelharris December 02, 03:29PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what do you suggest they replace it with, if it
> was stopped? And if it was stopped (extremely
> unlikely with the amount invested in it's roll
> out), how do you think people will cope??????
>
> The whole idea of the benefit is that they are
> paid jointly in arrears, the Government has
> already said that where people experience
> difficulties with this, they can be given an
> advance that they can then repay over 12 months.

Forcing people on the breadline to take on more debt, what could possibly go wrong with that?

As for with what it would be replaced, the two systems (six individual benefits vs universal credit) are currently running alongside each other - many areas do not have universal credit, it only covers about 10% of claimants. So there is nothing to stop the rollout being paused, if necessary returning the small number already on UC back to the old system, while the issues with UC are properly considered and rectified.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 02, 03:55PM

The numbers involved are not small

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by rendelharris December 02, 04:26PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The numbers involved are not small

The numbers are not, the proportions are. What would be better, saying right, we've rolled out to 10% and there are massive problems, let's roll it out to the other 90%, or let's keep the 90% on the old system until we fix the problems? As noted above, the old system is still there and running for 90% of claimants, it's not like it would have to be rebuilt from scratch.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Blah Blah December 02, 09:58PM

Rendel is absolutely right. That 10% trial has been a disaster for far too many people. Rolling it out to the other 90% makes no sense. And yes, it has cost a ridiculous amount to just roll out to that 10%. How much will have to be spent fixing the expected fallout from rolling out the rest? Combining benefits makes a lot of sense in theory, but the overriding idea behind this was to cut costs and some ideological nonsense about how the poorest people live by millionaires who dreamed up the details of the scheme. It can be paused, reversed or completely redesigned without all the crap about the poor being responsible for their lot.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 03, 11:57AM

Stop the Rollout

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Pugwash December 04, 12:02PM

I studied the benefit systems in Holland as part of my degree many moons ago. (1990s) and their system was that if people were receiving a sickness/disability benefit and were accepted for work, that benefit would continue until they received their first month's wages. Also, if the person could not work the full time hours, they could continue to do reduced hours and their benefit would automatically be paid to make up the difference. I was lucky to be able to interview the local DHSS/DWP equivalent manager who explained that (at that time) their was a minimum wage for all which also included benefits. At that time taxation was around 50% for all workers. What was interesting then was that if your annual salary was above a certain amount, you had to pay a compulsory additional 'national insurance i.e if income was more than say £30.000 pa you paid a % of NI on income in excess of that amount but that allowed you to top up any benefits you may later have to claim.

However, the Dutch system eventually proved too expensive after a few years and they abandoned much of the above but it would be interesting to know what replaced it and how it worked.

Although in theory the Universal Credit system is a good idea, the implementation has not been thought out and I have met people who have been frozen out of their benefits for several months and relying on help from friends etc to get by.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by JohnL December 04, 12:08PM

Pause and re-examine I'd say as something hasn't worked - is it the system or has the government used the introduction of a new system to claw back money.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Angelina December 04, 01:39PM

The risk is that when it goes wrong - and not IF - people's safety / health/ lives are at risk.

This is not a system that should have ANY capacity for going wrong.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 05, 12:50PM

Stop the Rollout
*Protest*

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 08, 07:30PM

Stop it

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 10, 10:51PM

sign the petition
[www.change.org]


[www.channel4.com]


Abandon universal credit roll-out or face chaos of poll tax riots', Gordon Brown warns government

[www.independent.co.uk]

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 10, 11:05PM

Really, there are far weightier matters happening politically Right Now, somehow think you'll find the topic of UC is pretty down the pile.

Natty why don't you do something constructive rather than single word posts and you care so much, you're posting a petition started my the Mirror, oh come on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was december 10, 11:08pm by dbboy.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by natty01295 December 10, 11:11PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, there are far weightier matters happening
> politically Right Now, somehow think you'll find
> the topic of UC is pretty down the pile.
>
> Natty why don't you do something constructive
> rather than single word posts and you care so
> much, you're posting a petition started my the
> Mirror, oh come on.

MUST BE STOPPED - UNIVERSAL CREDIT

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by JoeLeg December 11, 09:39AM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, there are far weightier matters happening
> politically Right Now, somehow think you'll find
> the topic of UC is pretty down the pile.
>

People already living in poverty who donít have enough money to pay the rent or turn on the heating donít give two f*#%$ about the weightier matters, theyíre too busy trying to work out if theyíve got enough food for the rest of the week.

You know as well as I do that itís not hyperbole to state there are people in this country living in those conditions. UC has not been done properly and ordinary people on the breadline have had their lives made WORSE by poorly thought-out government policy for which IDS should frankly be imprisoned, the evil excuse for a human that he is.

Itís hearltess to tell such people that they donít matter because of Brexit. In fact itís heartless to tell them that they donít matter because of any reason that apparently is more important than their inability to feed or heat themselves or pay their rent. I would guess they feel those things are pretty important.

What do you think has been such a success about UC so far?

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by fishbiscuits December 11, 10:32AM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Natty why don't you do something constructive
> rather than single word posts and you care so much

You think Natty is a real person?

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Blah Blah December 11, 01:40PM

I would go further than that Joe. I would say that because of brexit, government responsibility for what goes on with everything else has stopped. All that we are seeing is tinkering with things introduced by Cameron/ Osbourne's tenure. There is no other policy and therefore no government.

People have died because of the conditions imposed by welfare reform by this government. They are cruel and pernicious in their lack of shame or responsibility for that. And quite frankly, anyone who dismisses the suffering they have and are causing should hang their head in shame too dbboy.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 11, 03:01PM

Obviously people do matter, I don't know how you came up with stating "It's heartless to tell such people that they donít matter because of Brexit".

Until Brexit is resolved nothing is going to change and things such as UC will continue to be rolled out. Natty saying stop is frankly pointless.

It is shocking too see so many people begging and living on the streets. Had to go to the Strand a couple of weeks ago and that really shows how much people are suffering, ditto was in Cheltenham last weekend and even there, people were begging on the streets. Something is seriously wrong when in the 21st Century people have to live on the streets (that's not living, that's just surviving)and beg. It Political persuasion of the Party in power doesn't matter, what does matter is doing something to help people get off the streets and into somewhere to live.

The politicians roll out these programmes but do not see first hand the results, however that does not mean that the roll out will stop.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Blah Blah December 11, 03:51PM

But opposition has already changed government policy on UC. They are delaying the rollout. So there is every value to continuing to pressure the government for further changes. Natty isn't just saying stop per se. She/he is specifically asking for the rollout to be stopped, a view shared by the Labour Party, because rolling out something that clearly is so flawed and has cost far more to implement than predicted, is just burying a head in the sand. What government should be doing, is halting the rollout, whilst they do a properly researched impact assessment of the implementation so far, before making the necessary changes to ensure any rollout is as seamless and pain free as possible. Hard to do that though when you have cut back the resources of the DWP and jobcentres by so much, and are continually seeking to cut the cost of the help you give to recipients.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 11, 04:15PM

Sorry, what Natty is saying is simply STOP UC, and which he has further said it should go back to the way it was before. That will NEVER happen.

The previous DWP Minister Ester McVey knew that the roll out needed to be revised in terms of how it was rolled out, but 1) roll out was going to continue and 2) anyone that needed an advance would be given one, but it would need to be repaid. i.e. You don't get something for nothing any more.

Ministers are aware of what changes that are needed and have put in place a "fix" to help those who need to use the "fix". Not perfect but better than not having anything in place. But that does not get away from the fact that UC is here but because of the current situation with Brexit, nothing will change till Brexit is put to bed, you can expect that to be a minimum of at least two years and with May's inability ti move this forward, things are likely to get worse before they get better. Plus if Corbyn got into power, heaven help us, would the last person leaving UK plc turn off the lights and shut the door!!!!!!!!!!!

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Blah Blah December 11, 06:13PM

No claimant ever has got something for nothing. What preceeded were crisis loans and social fund payments, before the coalition scrapped them. They both had to be paid back. That is why delays in benefit payments suddenly meant people unable to feed themselves, and hence the rapid rise in foodbanks. Then on top of that, and in their wisdom, the Tories introduced a system where no claimant would receive anything for six weeks, and never asked what people would live on! So that advance is just a reinstatement of the old crisis loan system, something that should never have been scrapped in the first place.

Ministers may be aware, but they pick and choose what they listen to, and then act upon. UC is not here because of brexit at all. It was dreamed up long before that referendum, and formed part of the Welfare Reform Bill, back when Parliament actually presented bills. Government could have amended any aspect of it at any time. MPs have not exactly been silent on the impacts. UC is ongoing business, not new business. there is a difference. No further bills are required to change anything.

Corbyn, for all his faults, would at least do something about the disgraceful place we are now in. 1.5 million people needing foodbanks last year. Unacceptable and rising rates of homeless. The number of families in temporary accommodation has risen by 61% since this government came to power and 8000 of them in B&Bs (a rise of more than 1000 in the past year alone). This government has caused most of this by that very same Welfare reform Bill. So spare me the idea it would be worse under Labour. It has never been worse under Labour on any of those issues.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by rendelharris December 11, 06:56PM

Well said BB.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by hpsaucey December 11, 07:51PM

Wot joeleg and blahblah said!!! Spot on ...

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by dbboy December 11, 10:54PM

I never said UC was here because of Brexit. What I DID say was "nothing will change till Brexit is put to bed, you can expect that to be a minimum of at least two years and with May's inability to move this forward, things are likely to get worse before they get better. And I wasn't blaming those who where caught up in the roll out of this new way to pay benefits in one payment, rather than a number of different payments.

And it looks like May's days are numbered, and if what is expected happens tomorrow, she'll be gone by Christmas if not before. What's more, careful for what you wish for, because it could be far, far worse. The EU have stated they will not change the agreement, so which ever political party is in power, its going to have to deal with the situation the UK is in.

messageRe: Universal credit Stop the Rollout
Posted by Blah Blah December 11, 11:12PM

Why do you think there is a minister for work and pensions? Why did she recently announce a delay in the roll out? You really think none of those ministers are doing any work in their departments? All that Brexit has impeded, is the introduction of new bills and Acts of Parliament. It does not affect the working detail of policies of existing legislation, which a government department can change at any point it wants.

Now, on May, there is no guarantee that the challengers will get the required 159 votes for no confidence. And if they don't, she can not be challenged for a year. Given the slow grind to get those letters to the 48, I think she will hang on. But anyway, what can be worse than a party that created this whole brexit mess in the first place? That forced unnecessary austerity on the poorest that helped guide that result no doubt? Labour do not have the level of division on the EU that the Tories have. Labour would be perfectly happy with a soft Brexit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was december 11, 11:13pm by Blah Blah.


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