Picture Palace Campaign for Crystal Palace

[dulwichmum]

About the Picture Palace Campaign

Gala have sold the bingo hall at 25 Church Road, SE19 to a large evangelical church despite an independent cinema operator also putting in an offer.

This art deco building is key to the regeneration of the Crystal Palace triangle. It was originally built in 1928 as a cinema and the beautiful interior was designed by the renowned cinema architect George Coles. The building is one of the most significant venues in the town centre and as a commercially viable cinema it would bring many benefits to the area and to all members of the existing community.

English Heritage has identified the triangle as an ?at risk? conservation area, as such, the sympathetic restoration of this building to its original community use would act as a catalyst for the rest of area, especially Church Road.

The building has a designated D2 planning use (cinema/bingo) and we are campaigning to retain that planning use for the benefit of the local community and to support the regeneration and economic growth of our much loved town and its local traders. We do not believe that the local population has any planning need for an eighth church to serve the triangle. The church is relocating its substantial congregation from Wimbledon and are currently preparing a planning application to change the use of 25 Church Road from community use to a place of worship for their followers. When the application has been submitted, Bromley council will be consulting the local community. It is imperative that we act at this time as a community so that our voices are heard.

The new church will not only strip us of a vital community building but it will also considerably increase traffic congestion and parking issues in the area several times a week by people with no other interest in the town centre. If you agree with us and want a cinema in Crystal Palace rather than another church then please sign the petition in local shops, spread the word amongst your friends and neighbours and contact your local councillors, MPs, GLA members and Bromley?s planning department.

Contact details for your representatives can be found in the resources for campaigners (including a facebook group and online petition) section of this website. Picture-Palace.org will be regularly updated with news and information relevant to the campaign ? please register so that we can send you updates of any significant developments.

[dulwichmum]

Please, please sign the petition and join the facebook group. Otherwise the au pair will have to tudge to Brixton or Peckham to the cinema, and this building is far more beautiful than that.

I myself have a home cinema - clearly!

[JonathanM]

Please support this campaign. The cinema group who are interested in returning the building to its former glory are City Screen the country's leading independent cinema operator, the owners of the Ritzy in Brixton and the Clapham Picturehouse. Simply put, no other single thing could make as big a difference to the regeneration of Crystal Palace and be of significant benefit to a much wider catchment area.

Follow the campaign via twitter

Join the Facebook group

[dulwichmum]

Please sign the petition. It would be lovely to have a super cinema so very close (sigh)...

[louisiana]

So KICC wants to open another 'church'?

These people are bizarre. I watched the movie that Darryn de la Soul shot on her mobile

http://www.campaign.picture-palace.org/?page_id=88

http://shootingpeople.org/watch/film.php?film_id=51972

Investments, assets, territories, wealth... Waste bins for cheques. Selling timeshares...

It's the church of money, especially for the people who run it.

And these people get to be a charity, with all the benefits that confers (tax etc.)??

(Although investigated by the Charity Commission owing to management living a profligate life.)

This is something that Crystal Palace can really do *without*.

[louisiana]

I've set up a pledge on Pledgebank, to get ten others to join me on sending in a planning objection when the time comes.

There are now more than 2,000 people who've signed the petition online (plus another 1,000-plus on the paper petition).

Corrected for Saturday-night arithmetic!

[dulwichmum]

To have a terrific cinema at Crystal Palace in that lovely old building would be such an asset for Dulwich. We genuinely should not allow this to happen.

[louisiana]

I agree totally, DM. How many churches (particularly ones selling time-shares: see the Shooting People movie footage) can a neighbourhood take? And the Picturehouse people really do want to open a cinema there.

This is cycling distance for anyone in East Dulwich, and really deserves our support.

[louisiana]

dulwichmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To have a terrific cinema at Crystal Palace in

> that lovely old building would be such an asset

> for Dulwich. We genuinely should not allow this

> to happen.

Clarification: 'This' meaning a church, not 'this' meaning a cinema, I reckon you meant DM.

[louisiana]

The pledge for this campaign is now on the main page of Pledgebank pledges, as another kind soul has signed up.

http://www.pledgebank.com/list

and its own page:

http://www.pledgebank.com/saveourcinema

Please consider spending a few minutes objecting to the church's planning application (it'll probably be some time over the next few weeks) and sign up to the pledge. Let's see if we can get a proper cinema back in Crystal Palace!

[Bizzy]

I would just like to point out that the Peckham Multiplex is cycling / walking distance from Dulwich too ;-)

[louisiana]

Indeed it is. Hannah Montana, G-Force.

While it's great to have a cinema in Peckham, I believe Picturehouse (Ritzy, Duke of York's, Picturehouse etc.) would provide a different kind of programming, plus much more (e.g. in Brighton they show films by local film makers and so on).

We're also talking about the restoration of an old cinema to its former fine state.

And nothing wrong with two cinemas in local walking/cycling distance!

[dulwichmum]

And who wants to go to a cinema in Peckham? Really now...

[louisiana]

Pek-um

Doesn't have the same ring as Clahm.

Or even Bal-haam, gateway to the south.

[Bizzy]

Hannah Montana? Geforce? :-S

::o Nothing wrong with the Peckham Multiplex. I agree that a cinema would be a useful addition to the area although objections against the proposed Church (traffic and the like) could apply to the Cinema...some of the objections on the petition are crass. Your pledge is a little personal - you may get more "kind souls" if you kept it factual ;-)

I'm certain this alternative cinema will have a certain audience - a cinema like the Multiplex would serve the local area in a broader way with films such as Hannah Montana and Geforce rather than Coco Channel (wrong spelling eh?).

The only valid objection the proposed Church has against it is the number of Churches in the area. So tell me, what is so wrong about having a Church on Church Road? :)

[SeanMacGabhann]

I like the Peckham Multiplex, and when I go it's a good evening involving the Montpelier, Bar Story and a film

And the prices are keen

But I wouldn't say there was nothing wrong with it. It could do with a refurb for a start. And I object to having religious leaflets thrust at me in the lobby either because a) they can or b) they object to the movie being shown

And having to buy tickets from the popcorn person is a bit pants too

[louisiana]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hannah Montana? Geforce? :-S

They're showing at the Multiplex at the moment. Nothing wrong with them, just not my cup of tea.

>

> ::o Nothing wrong with the Peckham Multiplex. I

> agree that a cinema would be a useful addition to

> the area although objections against the proposed

> Church (traffic and the like) could apply to the

> Cinema...some of the objections on the petition

> are crass. Your pledge is a little personal - you

> may get more "kind souls" if you kept it factual

> ;-)

I predict there will be many who file an objection regardless of the pledge. The pledge is just another way of bringing together a small number of objectors.

>

> I'm certain this alternative cinema will have a

> certain audience - a cinema like the Multiplex

> would serve the local area in a broader way with

> films such as Hannah Montana and Geforce rather

> than Coco Channel (wrong spelling eh?).

'Would'? The Multiplex is already there and offering exactly that.

>

> The only valid objection the proposed Church has

> against it is the number of Churches in the area.

> So tell me, what is so wrong about having a Church

> on Church Road? :)

There are many valid grounds for objection to a change of use. Take a look at the Bromley Local Plan. For example, the preservation of different kinds of 'community facilities' is very much part of the planning policies.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a church in a road of any particular name. Road names are historical artefacts reflecting past political or social trends or fashions. We have a Silver Street in thousands of old towns and villages, but the silversmiths are no more.

[Bizzy]

Take Church Road as a hint then. If you want a Cinema to impact the local community and economy, surely you would want a cinema that is open to the widest range of viewers? Is this your only alternative to stop another Church from opening? The Church has procured the building - did it occur to you that the independent cinema may not have had the finance to compete? What happens if the Church proposal is refused? Will they sit on the site (most probable)? Sell it to the independent cinema for a reduced sum (I don't think so)? Do you really care if it becomes an independent cinema (I don't think so!!)? The whole thing reeks of a quick fix to stop another Church from opening in the area because you don't like the look of them and what they stand for. For the record, I am in no way associated with this Church. Live and let live.

The last time I went to the Peckham Multiplex was when it was ?3 for the ticket. I didn't mind popcorn on the floor and on my seat for that money. It could do with a refurb. My comment was in reference to comment made by Dulwichmum about Peckham. I hope she was joking...

[louisiana]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Take Church Road as a hint then. If you want a

> Cinema to impact the local community and economy,

> surely you would want a cinema that is open to the

> widest range of viewers?

Each neighbourhood should have a variety of community facilities. Taken together, the facilities across a wider area should address a wide range of possible interests. As others have already commented on this thread, there is already a Multiplex-style cinema within walking and cycling distance for many around here.

Or are you proposing that every food outlet should be a MacDonald's and every supermarket a Tesco?

Is this your only

> alternative to stop another Church from opening?

I think you misunderstand. I said, and I quote: "There are many valid grounds for objection to a change of use. Take a look at the Bromley Local Plan. For example, the preservation of different kinds of 'community facilities' is very much part of the planning policies."

In other words, all kinds of planning objections can be made that make absolutely *no" reference to church (specific), or churches (in general).

The mere 'change of use' is a planning issue in itself, never mind what the proposed change of use is. Take a look at the Local Plan. It's worth reading in detail, and reflects central government policy (through the Planning Policy Guidelines referenced) on communities and neighbourhoods etc.

[JonathanM]

Hello Bizzy, I can assure you that the great majority of residents in Crystal Palace and the surrounding area care very much that the building in question, a purpose built cinema, be returned to its original purpose. We would be objecting to the change of use regardless of who had bought it, although it is quite true that there are 8 churches in the area already.

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[louisiana]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The Church has procured the building - did it

> occur to you that the independent cinema may not

> have had the finance to compete?

Indeed the church concerned bought the building. It has around ?19.5millionn million quid income a year from donations and very few outgoings (overheads around a million in latest filed accounts). So its pockets are effectively bottomless. They could pay really silly money for the site (maybe they have???) We see that all the time in the world of commercial property (people paying silly money and then running up against planning).

> the Church proposal is refused? Will they sit on

> the site (most probable)? Sell it to the

> independent cinema for a reduced sum (I don't

> think so)? Do you really care if it becomes an

> independent cinema (I don't think so!!)?

Planning is not about 'my d**k* is bigger than yours'. There are plenty of examples of people throwing money around who have not succeeded, because their aims did not accord with local plans and neighbourhoods. I'm involved with another such 'renegotiation' of a property where the planners did not give way and the developer failed.

That is all.

The whole

> thing reeks of a quick fix to stop another Church

> from opening in the area because you don't like

> the look of them and what they stand for. For the

> record, I am in no way associated with this

> Church. Live and let live.

>

I supported the idea of returning the cinema to cinema use long before I knew anything about who might be involved. I've lived very near the Duke of York's and know that cinema group well, as well as being a regular at two other Picturehouse cinemas over the years, in different cities. This has also influenced me since I found our they were behind another bid.

I think you're wrong. I'm sure people objected at the time to the cinema becoming a bingo hall (and bingo, AFAIK, is not a religion!). In other words, for many people it's the cinema thing.

[Bizzy]

Louisiana, this may sound harsh but, you need a good clout.

I know all about planning - I've been on both sides of the fence for myself and a number of Clients. Please don't lecture me. From the other posters, I sense a legitimate reason for objection. You on the other hand, dig and delve deeply into this Church, almost as if you're looking for something which you can use against them. Who cares how much money they earn? Who cares if they are a Charity? What has this go to do with your objection? You make it personal and obvious. You don't need to do that to mount a bona fide objection.

"I'm involved with another such 'renegotiation' of a property where the planners did not give way and the developer failed." Let me guess - you gave your two pennies worth on the neighbour consultation sheet? There are many ways of satisfying conditions set out UDPs.

[annaj]

That does sound harsh Bizzy, particularly when I suspect you have your own agenda.

This is a thread publicising the campaign to support the cinema. It's not about being anti-church, that's just your perception, it's about restoring an original art deco building to it's former glory and purpose.

[louisiana]

Bizzy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Louisiana, this may sound harsh but, you need a

> good clout.

And you're handing them out, eh?

>

> I know all about planning - I've been on both

> sides of the fence for myself and a number of

> Clients. Please don't lecture me. From the other

> posters, I sense a legitimate reason for

> objection. You on the other hand, dig and delve

> deeply into this Church, almost as if you're

> looking for something which you can use against

> them. Who cares how much money they earn?

You care: you raised the issue of their capacity for payment for the site. To me it's neither here no there how much money they have. (If people want to give them money, that's their business.)

This is about a *cinema building* that has got tired on the outside but that is still capable of reverting to its former function for this neighbourhood. Have you checked out the history on the interior?

Do you like movies? Do you like the 'cinema experience'? Do you know anything about what some 'cinemas' do these days?

Who

> cares if they are a Charity? What has this go to

> do with your objection? You make it personal and

> obvious. You don't need to do that to mount a bona

> fide objection.

>

> "I'm involved with another such 'renegotiation' of

> a property where the planners did not give way and

> the developer failed." Let me guess - you gave

> your two pennies worth on the neighbour

> consultation sheet?

Neighbour consultation sheet?? You've lost me there. (Something you've been promoting?)

A range of projects elsewhere, such as a ?3m project with umpteen buildings and *substantially* more land. Nothing to do with this part of town. Or this town indeed.

There are many ways of

> satisfying conditions set out UDPs.

Indeed. And there are many ways to fail too. As some developers have found out.

[louisiana]

By the way Bizzy, it would be really nice to see you posting on EDF about something unrelated to: gods of any variety, religion, churches, the trouble with atheists, the Alpha Course.... There must be other things that interest you? There is a whole wide world out there.