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messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by scott 07 February, 2010 11:11

Ah, the speculation...
The company that I am a shareholder of has acquired The Wishing Well.
The plans for it (licensing and planning permitting) will clearly please some but not all :

It will return to being The Victoria
The bulk of the woodwork and detail that is in the main bar will stay.
Giant screen and 'Corrie' to go..
Strippers not coming.
As The Bishop serves it's neighbourhood, The Victoria (Lodge/Tavern/Inn) will attempt to serve it's.
In no attempt to woo Sue alone, there will be an extensive range of real ales.
Vastly improved food offering with Sunday roasts aplenty.
Pool table to go
two bar areas to be made in to one.
Bed and breakfast in the upstairs rooms (not rentable by the hour as used to be the case)
Last but not least and sure to ruffle a few feathers...one area of the bar will be kid free and one family friendly with a purpose built Children's Room.

I welcome any questions but not over keen on the word 'hate'.

Cheers

Scott

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by SeanMacGabhann 07 February, 2010 11:43

that's strippers for you scott

Thanks for the update tho - any target date?

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by hoolley 07 February, 2010 11:48

Fab if its true that Scott has got it. Its got the potential to be a gold mine. Peckham really is up and coming.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by daizie 07 February, 2010 11:49

LOL

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Mick Mac 07 February, 2010 12:34

Scott - you have got it all wrong. Pool table and big screens are options that we need. We need a range of pubs doing different things not lots of "Bishop"s.

Hope the food is good though and whatever happens will give it a try, but based on yesterdays day/night out - watching the football and rugby in a very crowded EDT (they made huge money yesterday at the Magdela/Magnolia's expense) and putting my name on the long list to play pool in the Gowlett suggest there is a shortage of pubs providing these services.

The gentrification of ED/Peckham can go too far.

There is a lot of snobbery about showing sports and playing pool and even live music - but there is a big demand for it. You can't compete with the Herne on the family front so don't try. Also don't forget the pub is in Peckham. If you want to get people to walk down from ED to go to another bishop then you need to offer something different not another packaged product.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by taper 07 February, 2010 12:36

Scott

"...one area of the bar will be kid free and one family friendly with a purpose built Children's Room."

So like the Florence? That works pretty well.

Good luck with the new venture. If you get the beer, food, ambience right (like the Florence), you'll do very well. You'll probably further denude the Montpelier of custom, too, which promised great things for the area, but has never delivered.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by SeanMacGabhann 07 February, 2010 12:38

I dunno Mick - the Well used to show football but didn't draw the footfall so I'm not sure Scott and the company have got that part wrong. Personally I would love to be able to watch sports there, it's a great space and I used to enjoy watching games (sometimes on my own) there but it's no way to stay in business

If only the Montpelier up the road would allow sounds as well as pictures on their big screen

Besides, if you are going to walk in from ED to watch sport, the Prince Albert a stones throw away does the job nicely

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by SeanMacGabhann 07 February, 2010 12:39

taper

possible true about the Monty, but I'm hopeful that the Victoria will increase the profile of that road generally and the Mont might even benefit. I found the service and food generally in the MOntpelier to be fine - they just lack custom

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Mick Mac 07 February, 2010 12:48

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dunno Mick - the Well used to show football but
> didn't draw the footfall so I'm not sure Scott and
> the company have got that part wrong. Personally I
> would love to be able to watch sports there, it's
> a great space and I used to enjoy watching games
> (sometimes on my own) there but it's no way to
> stay in business
>
> If only the Montpelier up the road would allow
> sounds as well as pictures on their big screen
>
> Besides, if you are going to walk in from ED to
> watch sport, the Prince Albert a stones throw away
> does the job nicely

I was in the Price Albert last night for one drink and it will be the last time I go in there. It is a complete dive. Sorry Sean but people do have some standards. Don't associate wanting to watch sports or play pool with wanting to rough it with shell suits.

I surveyed all the pubs in the area yesterday smiling smiley and the EDT is the best pub in ED for me. Followed by the Gowlett. And Liqourish. Those would be my top 3.

If you want a nice bar look at the Magnolia. All very nice but must struggle to make a profit. The old Magdela on a 6 Nations day would have made thousands of pounds. I passed it on the way down to the EDT and it was virtually empty. Nice place to ahve a coffee though.

The bishop is a very good pub, but we don't need another.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Roll Deep 07 February, 2010 12:59

You've obviously never been to The Castle on Crystal Palace rd Mick. Now that's a dive. Probably the only place still open where you can watch paddy's throwing fivers into a hat on the horses, and get a splinter in your chips as well.

Strictly Fred Perry and Ben Sherman, and kids drink for free.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Mick Mac 07 February, 2010 13:10

I like the Castle and go there occaisionally now that it has been done up. Best Guinness in ED, a "locals" pub I guess but appears to have a few characters. Much nicer than the Prince Albert. The PA is easily the worst pub I have been in for a long time. Disgusting mix of outdated decor and plasma screens. Not to mention the toilets.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Roll Deep 07 February, 2010 13:23

Really? The last time I went in there it looked like someone had fired a sawn-off at the dartboard. Although that was a long time ago. And having a potman in school uniform didn't give off a respectable impression.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by SeanMacGabhann 07 February, 2010 13:29

The Castle is oft discussed on here. I like it. In fact I tend to agree with most of Mick Mac's selections and points above. I pointed out the Albert as an alternative to the gentrification

The Castle has had a bit of a facelift, particularly on the left side of the bar

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by daizie 07 February, 2010 13:42

Pity the regulars havent .

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Annasfield 07 February, 2010 13:42

Snobs. I'm going to the PA to watch the footy later on.

Good luck with your venture Scott - I'm looking forward to it.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Roll Deep 07 February, 2010 13:43

Does the mutual agreement from the comments sandwiching mine have anything to do with you both perhaps being Irish?

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Sharon_H 07 February, 2010 13:45

I think I'll join you Anna.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by SeanMacGabhann 07 February, 2010 13:48

Roll deep.. Probably more to do with us not being a wolf in Deep's clothing.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Annasfield 07 February, 2010 13:50

Sound Sharon. I may well see you in there then winking smiley

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by scott 07 February, 2010 13:55

Dear Mick Mac,

The Wishing Well (journey's inn) went into receivership. This could have been bad management, ownership or that the area demands something a little more forward thinking.
I am not trying to compete with The Herne (Jamie is a great operator and The Bishop is not in competition with The Palmerston and they are 100yds apart as opposed to approx a mile between them)

There is no 'snobbery against showing sports'. The ever increasing cost of Sky Sports prohibitive.
The pub is aimed at Bellenden road/village locals, primarily. New and old locals alike. Why would I try to cannibalise The Bishop's trade by opening another one ?

Can you give me you interpretation of 'packaged product' ?

Sean, target date is to start work in 2 weeks time with a 5-6 week turnaround.

Taper, yes similar split of kid friendly & adult only. We are also building a Kid's Pavillion at the rear of The Florence to cope with the volume of families visiting. There has been a huge increase in families in pubs ever since the smoking ban and it is difficult to keep a balance. Even people who have children and are drinking in a pub without them would rather not have to see or hear them (customer views not my own).

The press is always quoting that 5-6 pubs a week are closing but never delve into the little known fact that the pubs that most that have closed have not changed their 'offering' in the last 3 years. e.g. The Wishing Well.

The Castle & The Prince Albert are owned by the same company from who we have also acquired The Uplands (which will have Sky Sports)

Please keep your comments coming...

Scott

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Mick Mac 07 February, 2010 14:52

Any improvement in the uplands would be welcome and its not far from where i live but i look forward to seeing what you do there.
Its great that you have taken such an interest in the area. The bishop was a great addition and i did not like the the old foresters.
At the end of the day you do what works. Even a few years on im still smarting about the demise of the magdela as a 6 nations venue and with each upgrade i hope somethins will come along to fill that gap. Untill then the edt prospers deservedly.
I in to the herne with the kids and it draws people from a fair distance away. That is partly due to the large kids area which is the safest available. If you can match that you are on to a winner.
Packaged product was a reference to what was said about the bishop when it opened. I remembed a reference to repeating the camberwell castle formula in east dulwich. I look forward to seeing the new pub and local people will no doubt go but i hope it has its own identity and does somethins sufficiently different to draw people from further away.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by cate 07 February, 2010 15:52

Where is the Florence? I look forward to seeing the new incarnation of the Wishing Well. Can you get some good dry cider in please, not Bulmers or Magners. Maybe some French stuff like they have in Green and Blue. The pub at Denmark Hill Station has a great selection and they do Cider Festivals. They have a large selection and let me try a few samples before I ordered a pint. Franklins has Aspalls. The Drum had awful cider in my opinion.

Will well behaved dogs be welcome? When did kids start to be prevalent in pubs? Is it only since the smoking ban? I thought they were only allowed to be in dining areas for the purpose of eating at a table. It's refreshing to hear that there will be an area for adults only.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by scott 07 February, 2010 16:01

They should both have their own identity. The Bishop, The Clarence & The Florence are all run with the same ethos but have completely different identities as this is something a pub tends to get from it's regulars.

We don't intend to match the Herne's play area as that is in their garden. After consultation with the pub's next door neighbour, who raised concerns about converting the external rear area into a garden, we decided it best for the immediate neighbour if it was a kid's room.

Cate, The Florence is in Herne Hill, 133 Dulwich road. We do Symond's reserve cider on draft with Aspalls in a bottle. Well behaved kids & dogs are welcome in all the pubs.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Acid Casual 07 February, 2010 18:28

I might be in danger of going off on a tangent, but The Upland has always been a bit of a curiosity for me.

I believe that it benefitted from new landlords a while back (a Kiwi girl and her partner if I recall?) and a real effort was made in all areas. When I first moved here about 4 years back I thought it looked quite nice and really inviting. From what I understand the landlords made a real effort which paid off for a bit. I also remember reading on here I think about how nice they were.

Trouble is that ever since that initial impression, every time I have passed by or dropped in very quickly, the clientele seems to have been exclusively made up of Jeremy Kyle-esque morons. Before someone gets the hump about that description, it refers not to a social class or situation, but a state of mind. In this case ignorant and anti-social.

One bloke in obligitory trackie bottoms and baseball cap encouraging his toddler daughter to kick the little statue of Buddah in the face, saying - "Fackin' batter it darlin! Always give anyone 'oo ain't christian a good beating!"

As I said, morons irrespective of class or creed. Such a shame, as with good landlords which I am led to believe is the case, nice premises and good beer (which it has both of) you would think it would succeed.

Can anyone shed any light on why it perhaps continues to be dysfunctional? Has it a long standing history which a series of reincarnations cannot overcome?

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by daizie 07 February, 2010 18:40

I'd be interested to know too . Iv'e posted on the forum before about the Chav's in the Uplands. You put it so much nicer than me Acid .

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by 07 February, 2010 18:45

I don't mind the Upland and think the 'chavs' have been drinking in there far longer than most posters on here have lived round here...not you I know Daizie

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Bluerevolution 07 February, 2010 18:46

Acid Casual Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I might be in danger of going off on a tangent,
> but The Upland has always been a bit of a
> curiosity for me.
>
> I believe that it benefitted from new landlords a
> while back (a Kiwi girl and her partner if I
> recall?) and a real effort was made in all areas.
> When I first moved here about 4 years back I
> thought it looked quite nice and really inviting.
> From what I understand the landlords made a real
> effort which paid off for a bit. I also remember
> reading on here I think about how nice they were.
>
> Trouble is that ever since that initial
> impression, every time I have passed by or dropped
> in very quickly, the clientele seems to have been
> exclusively made up of Jeremy Kyle-esque morons.
> Before someone gets the hump about that
> description, it refers not to a social class or
> situation, but a state of mind. In this case
> ignorant and anti-social.
>
> One bloke in obligitory trackie bottoms and
> baseball cap encouraging his toddler daughter to
> kick the little statue of Buddah in the face,
> saying - "Fackin' batter it darlin! Always give
> anyone 'oo ain't christian a good beating!"
>
> As I said, morons irrespective of class or creed.
> Such a shame, as with good landlords which I am
> led to believe is the case, nice premises and good
> beer (which it has both of) you would think it
> would succeed.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on why it perhaps
> continues to be dysfunctional? Has it a long
> standing history which a series of reincarnations
> cannot overcome?


Being a Manc, I should feel right at home there !

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by Acid Casual 07 February, 2010 19:00

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't mind the Upland and think the 'chavs' have
> been drinking in there far longer than most
> posters on here have lived round here...not you I
> know Daizie

I made no mention of chavs as a term of description at all.

You can be extremely middle class, earn six figures plus a year, but if you lack basic social intelligence, a sense of decency, you are still an undesirable and are a possible liability in a public house. Just so happens that these lot were not of that social group.

When I worked doors in pubs usually the hardest ones to deal with were middle class because despite the fact that they were drunk, acting up and harassing other drinkers, their sense of outraged entitlement made them a pain in the neck. That said, they usually entered the premises fine and ended up becoming anti-social as the drink flowed a bit too fast, whilst the white reebok classic brigade would usually not get by the door in the first place.

Does that make me prejudiced or a bigot? Well I dunno and I don't care really. I can usually spot a likely trouble maker from a fair distance, so I'd always go with my instincts and experience. Experience from growing up, living next door to, going to school with, and generally mixing with folk like that. I'd say most would do the same if they had that experience to draw from.

I think that the active word above is PUBLIC house. You mix with other people happily and sociably in public. If you can't then you are a dick. it's that simple in my view.

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by daizie 07 February, 2010 19:03

Right .

messageRe: The Wishing Well on Bellenden Road
Posted by 07 February, 2010 19:14

Well I've never seen or had any crap in there

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