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Public to get a say in cuts


PeckhamRose

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It's a stupid idea, anyway.


Question: What areas of public services should be cut?


Everybody's Answer: The bits that affect me the least.


It turns into a who shouts loudest competition. Cameron is right to make cuts - we have no money left - but he/the government has the have the cojones to make the decisions, not hive it off to some ask-the-people rubbish.

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Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

.

> Cameron is right to make cuts - we have no money

> left - but he/the government has the have the

> cojones to make the decisions, not hive it off to

> some ask-the-people rubbish.


xxxxxxxx


Oh come on, he's trying to make friends :))

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I can't see the logic of either the criticism of the concept or the cynicism.


It's surely good to take soundings and ask our opinon - you don't have to take part but having the opportunity is surely a positive. As for the cynicism - I don't subscribe. On the whole most politicians do, regardless of persuasion, want to do good and make things better. I believe this coalition is tackling the country's problems in a sensible and rational fashion - without histrionics, without too much spin and with a refreshing degree of honesty.

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The cuts are needed, the government is acting responsibly BUT the problem with having quite so many wealthy people in the cabinet is that "We are in this together' doesn't really convince...


The consultation with the 'public' is political rather than real. The consultation with key stakeholders within various departmets for ideas etc DOES make some sense

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Without wanting to sound too much like SteveT... an overhaul of the MPs second home expenses would be a strong symbolic gesture, even if it is a drop in the ocean. A cap of something like ?1200 pcm would seem sensible.
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Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Without wanting to sound too much like SteveT...

> an overhaul of the MPs second home expenses would

> be a strong symbolic gesture, even if it is a drop

> in the ocean. A cap of something like ?1200 pcm

> would seem sensible.


Already done - tho' the cap is slightly higher than you propose. See Parliamentary Standards - Accommodation

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MM I have met you and respect you. My cynicism is born out of the fact that some very good friends of mine are suffering greatly as a result of cuts already in place - mental health 'care' for starters. And the fact that nobody who is well off wants to lose anything but their voices are always heard and the bottom big percentage of the population are having - as always - to support the top few percent, either through taxes, and prescriptions charges in my case (unable to afford them all yet not eligible for free prescriptions even though I earned so little I don't have to pay tax next year) or being in work but being paid very poorly whilst big business managers are paid correspondingly too much. The Blair government - of all the governments there could have been - who arrived with so much positivity and hope - let us all down. And a lot of people are suffering. So many people with talents and abilities and most importantly experience, find themselves unable to contribute to society to the betterment of us all. Of course we must not look to government to save us, but we do not need to be made to suffer more when we have done what we could and had it taken away from us.


There are a lot of people worse off than me and I try and remind myself of that every day as I take the five out of six different medications I can afford to take(!) but I know that my voice is never heard. I do my best. When I received a letter from my MP after the election thanking me for returning her to office, I wrote to her with my own concerns which were not just for me but for others too. But she is not in government now, and I doubt any of the likes of us will have our concerns heard. If I genuinely felt we were all going to have to suffer equally then fine, but those already suffering and living below poverty levels (I'm not there yet) know that there are many people who fear facing cuts of a few thou in their salaries, but it will just mean they will have to cut back to two holidays a year. There are I believe 17 millionaires in the current new front benches.

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There?s a typo in the title PR. You missed out an ?n?.


It is telling when a government goes on about being ?in this together? when it comes to cutting the services that so many forced into poverty by an unequal society rely upon in such a real way but on the other hand if they had their way they would allow people who inherit 1 million pound houses to do so tax free and protect those who own second homes from taxation.

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PR ? indeed we have met, enjoyed drinks together and found that despite different experiences and lives we have similar tastes and thoughts. I have equal respect for you too. However, I think you are compounding too many strands of thought into a simplistic argument.


1. It is illogical to blame the current coalition gov?t for current failures in service delivery or indeed for any cuts. While they have started to identify areas to cut no actual reductions in spending have yet occurred. They have also had the grace to attempt to give us a voice in the discussion about the future necessary cuts and decisions. That some part of this is spin ? I don?t doubt. That some part of it is real ? I do believe.


2. Your argument that the bottom big percentage of the population is supporting the top few percent is also misleading. The top 10% of earners in UK pay maybe 20% - 25% of the total tax take from income tax (I can?t, at the moment, find the source for that statement but the principle is correct). That the major part of the total income tax take is paid by the majority that are not higher rate tax payers is also understandable ? there are many many more standard rate tax payers.


3. I would agree that a lot of people are suffering ? from poor mental health care, from poor medical care, from being unemployed, from poor housing, from life as a single mum on a sink estate, from bring an unloved child of dissolute parents, from being a wounded soldier ex-Afganistan, from being a refugee in a lousy accommodation unable to work, from being homeless and the list goes on.


? How do you want to prioritise these issues?

? Where should the current government start? Given that this government has inherited a situation where 25% of all government spending is funded by borrowing is it right to expect the government to carry on in the same fashion with no change?

? That wasn?t working before the election ? why should it now?

? Isn?t it their duty to question, on behalf of everyone, the cost of government, the way in which the various services are managed, delivered and used?

? Is it rational to expect the government to solve everyone?s problem ? is, sometimes, government the problem not the solution?


4. The tax payers who fear facing a cut of a ?few thou? of their income, as you put it, are real and will have to adjust their lifestyle because those extra taxes, reduced benefits are coming and coming soon. This coalition gov?t has signed up to a ?10K tax allowance that will take a significant number of people out of paying tax ? increasing their real income by 7% ? 10%; this is a genuinely positive and progressive step. On benefits - this has got out of hand and needs tpo be reigned back, I personally find it hard to justify receiving child benefit when my income, now I?m back in work, is sufficient to feed and clothe my family and I?ll happily forego it if it is removed from families earning above ?35K pa as predicted.


5. The fact that are 17 millionaires in the cabinet should be a matter of pride ? individuals that are comfortably off they could have retired to the country and lived a comfortable and unchallenged life ? but they have chosen politics as a way of giving something back. I won?t dispute the fact that politicians do not have a good reputation at present but I will reiterate that, on the whole, the majority of them ? left / right / rich / poor / male / female are involved in order to changes things for the better.


6. Finally ? I know you have exercised your voice by becoming a member of the local health Trust, the Conservative?s ?big idea? is that others should take similar actions and by their combined voices make changes that government alone cannot achieve.

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It would depend on how democratic the public's say on the cuts is as to whether it's a good idea or not. Ironically, the more democratic the decision the worse the outcome could be.


How so? If the public is simply being asked to vote on general principles (ie less free school meals means more books, less cosmetic surgery on NHS means more mental Health care etc)then that's fair enough.


If however it comes down to a local level because tens of millions have been lobbed off council budgets then it could get ugly. Eg, does East Dulwich need a library as East Dulwich is a relatively prosperous place with many homes having computers and internet connection? Does it need a swimming pool? If you looked at usage figures the answers to these questions are probably no when Peckham has got perfectly adequate facilities for us to share. Close them down and beef up Peckham's facilities equals a saving.


What you may find is services we take for granted will go out of the window in some areas but are retained in other (perhaps) poorer areas.

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yeah...I know someone whose home wasn't worth that when she worked her socks off to buy it having moved out of council accommodation in stepney green in the 1970s. She spent many years doing lots of jobs, saving as much as she could so not everyone who inherits property at that value in todays market is born with a silver spoon in their mouth. she also bought loads of land which now would be worth even more if it was converted into land for commercial development. Good on her I say. Why should the taxman get everything she worked hard for?


Agree with you on the second homes issue, that bugs me.


I think the government are trying to get out of taking the blame for cutting public services by having this public consultation.

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Here's something to consider, would you rather have ...


...the chance at PR which once every 5 yrs gave you the "best" representation of the electorate's preference for whomsoever has charmed, bribed, hoodwinked and deceived the most convincingly


OR


... an ongoing opportunity to affect the decisions made big and small across the country and in the local communities to improve the quality of services and value for money throughout the Government's lifetime? Even if it's only limited it's likely more influence than we've ever been offered/exercised. IF it turns out to be substantial then we will be measured by the quality of our decisions in government. Yes the Devil is in the detail but given an inch perhaps we can steal a yard or two from the politicians desperate to maintain favour against the backdrop of all the pain they will have to oversee. If the Government is sincerely cowed by the mess they've got to deal with and the electorate's response then we have the chance to leverage that concern to our advantage. The key is to get involved.


I work for a public body and it frustrates the cr@p outta me that so much money is being p!ssed away on doing nothing (or the wrong thing), shirking responsibility, muddled thinking and egotistical indulgence. I'm going to stay on though (if I'm not cut), take the pay cuts/freezes as they happen and hopefully exert some influence on the quality of decisions and actions so that we do get better value for money because it's my/our/their money they're squandering to the detriment of our customers; the inhabitants and visitors of London.


I'll give Dave and Nick the benefit of the doubt for the moment as they've yet to reveal their true colours in action. Civil Servants and Experts don't have all the answers and certainly don't often have much common sense so any chance for other decent thinking people to be involved the better. With a more engaged public and a more responsible Press raising incisive questions rather than idle gossip we just might have a hope of emerging from this mess with a better democratic process, higher quality public services, a more responsible private sector and a decent foundation from which all can prosper sustainably.

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