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Differences between Lounge & Family Rom users


Keef

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I'm starting this, as a result of THIS THREAD from today, as well as a few other experiences. I was genuinely surprised today to find that I was in a total minority, if not totally on my own, with regards a particular subject, and wondered why.


Now the users on this forum all live in an around a smallish area. The Lounge has a fair few dads, some mum's, and some people without kids. The Family Room is, by it's very nature, used by people with kids, and probably 99%+ of the posts are by mums.


I'm not starting this thread asking for support, as I am more than happy expressing my own opinions. The point is, that I have been surprised at just how different my opinions have been from the majority in the Family Room on a couple of occasions.


Todays thread was based around an article by the Deputy Editor of Mother & Baby Magazine, which went as follows.


Giving your baby formula milk is nothing to be ashamed of.


?It?s right up there with a drug-free birth as the rite of passage that proves you?re all woman and a good mother. Breastfeeding: the most natural thing in the world. But what if, like me, you really don?t fancy it?


For some formula feeders, ?not really fancying it? translates into ?concealing the fact that I?m using a bottle?. So visits from health visitors are pre-empted by the scrabble to hide the sterliser under the sink. ?What, oh that bottle. I?ve been expressing so Dave can give feeds.? Hmm.


But why the shame? Sure, breastmilk has the edge over infant formula ? it?s free, it doesn?t need heating up and you can whip up a feed in the middle of the night without having to get out of bed.


Then there are studies that show it reduces the risk of breast cancer for you, and stomach upsets and allergies for your baby. But even the convenience and supposed health benefits of breastmilk couldn?t induce me to stick my nipple into a bawling baby?s mouth.


HANDS OFF


After nine months of denial, lardiness and bad shoes, as soon as the birth was out of the way I want my body back. (And some wine). Not that I had anything particularly useful to do with my body, except ? paradoxically ? care for my baby. I also wanted to give my boobs at least a chance to stay on my chest rather than dangling around on my stomach, which, after two pregnancies, still has ?tonal? issues of its own.


They?re part of my sexuality, too ? not just breasts, but fun bags.


And when you have that attitude (and I admit I made no attempt to change it), seeing your teeny, tiny, innocent baby latching on where only a lover has been before feels, well, a little creepy.


FORMULA WON


I don?t think I?m the only one, either ? only 52% of mums still breastfeed after six weeks. Ask most of the quitters why they stopped and you?ll hear tales of agonising three-hour feeding sessions and ? the drama! ? bloody nipples. But I often wonder whether many of these women, like me, just couldn?t be fagged or felt like getting tipsy once in awhile. My reasons for not breastfeeding might not be in the league of ?my boobs are falling off?, but they make sense to me and I hope some women can be reassured by my honesty.


I wasn?t always so confident about being an out-and-proud formula fan.


I recall one sunny afternoon when, happily feeding my baby in the park, ducks quacking in the distance, a passing stranger ? also a mum ? asked me whether I was breastfeeding. Reeling from the impertinence of such a personal question (and anyway, wasn?t the bottle in my hand a give away/) I hesitated to answer. Say ?yes? and I?d be a liar. Say ?no? and, from the pursing of her lips and arch of her brow, it was clear I?d be marked as a weak, selfish mum, straight from the Vicky Pollard school of parenting. The clock was ticking. Liar? Bad mum? I plumped for bad mum. ?You do know your baby will get sick if you give him that poison,? she said, flouncing off. Thanks, sister. Great advice.


THE WHITE STUFF


So, time for a reality check. Formula milk is not toxic, lacking in nutrients or in any way bad for a baby?s health when prepared properly ? and we can all read the back of a packet for instructions. No, it?s not A-grade, but neither is it powdered scum that will turn my baby into an anaemic ball of flab with a life expectancy of three. Nor is the fact my baby suckles on silicone rather than skin going to give him a mental illness or mean we don?t bond. That?s just ridiculous.


The Milk Mafia can keep their guilt trips. Bullying other mums about something as special and nurturing as feeding their babies (and yes, bottle feeding can be lovely and intimate) is a depth that even Vicky Pollard wouldn?t sink to. So, let?s hear it, ladies, for modern nutritional science, but most of all for our freedom of choice



This story was gotten hold of by The Sun, The Mail, and various other "papers", and caused absolute uproar amongst breastfeeding mothers (and to be fair, lots of formular using mums apparently, although I'v not read them).


My point was that whilst I may not really agree with her take on things, it was bloody well up to this woman what she did with her body, and that her article wasn't actually anti breast feeding. Some (if not all) Family Room users clearly disagree, which is fine, but I was a bit surprised.


I thought as a bloke, I'd not be the only one saying this woman should not be judged for making a decision about her own body, I thought a few women would be shouting about that too, but it would seem I totally misjudged things.


Just wondered what people in here thought.


This is NOT an attempt to start some Lounge Vs Family Room nonsense!

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Keef, I have not read the article or the thread that relates to it yet so I wouldn't actually want to comment on the issue that has caused you to post but, as someone who is a regular in both rooms, there is undoubtedly a diffference in the tone of the posts in general. On the whole I find the Lounge competitiive whereas the Family Room is empathetic. Post something looking for sympathy in the Lounge and you are likely to get a sarcastic/jokey comment in the first few responses. In the Family room, people are only too willing to provide support and advice.
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Yeah I'd go along with that Citizen, the earlier thread in the Lounge from someone asking how to meet people locally was a good example of what you just said.


I guess (as Quids basically points out above), there are just some subjects that are always going to cause strong reactions.

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Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > My point was that whilst I may not really agree

> with her take on things, it was bloody well up to

> this woman what she did with her body,


xxxxxxx


But Keef, isn't it also about what's best for the baby?


Erm, why do you think women have breasts?


ETA: Many moons ago, I was discreetly breastfeeding my daughter in my car, and a bloke walked by, hissed "disgusting" at me, and carried on. What's that all about?

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Keef - I found when raising both my kids, who are still very little, that there was a real pressure to breast feed, and you were made to feel guilty and under pressure to explain yourself if you decided you just didn't want to, for whatever reason. I did breast feed my children but not for as long as many people expected, and even that caused me to feel some pressure. Maybe you are finding that women in the family room who agree with you are choosing not to speak up because they feel that it isn't really a socially acceptable point of view to say that one is entitled to choose not to breast feed. Maybe that is what Helena Handbasket might be getting at?


Also people who are breast feeding by definition have very young children. My experience is that mother's with kids that young still feel things very keenly, very strongly, and can be quite forceful in their views of how to raise children. I've come under (very polite) fire more than once for suggesting that controlled crying isn't always a terrible thing, for example. I may get shot down for saying this but I think it is partly to do with the fact the they are still very hormonal!

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My experience is that there are too many people prepared to tell others how to bring up their children. I can only think they have too much time on their hands. Totally agree with you Keef. Now we are older more experienced parents I just pity how up tight people can get!


It's a small part of the reason that my family are looking to move away from the area before next kiddy comes along.

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jimmy two times Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This thread has all gone t1ts up for you I'm

> afraid Keef.


::o FUNNY!


legalbeagle you hit the nail on the head. It seems there is no way to keep the conversation from going to the "breast is best" debate. Not at all Keef's point but there you have it.


It's actually interesting to see this topic outside of the family room. It might take on a very different flavour.......

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I don't think anyone in the family room thread was saying that she wasn't entitled to choose whether to breast-feed or formula feed. I've seen plenty of both breast-feeding and formula-feeding posters in there, for those who might infer that ED or the family room is a hotbed of breast-feeding evangelists..


There is a definitely a different feel to the family room - it's a bit less jokey than the Lounge, much gentler and I think quite a community-creating feel. The flip side is that people tend to be more sensitive to differing opinions, often because the topics under discussion are very emotive and personal to the posters.

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Keef,


I have seen the thread but don't get as much opportunity to join in as I once did, otherwise I would have posted earlier. Looking after a baby allows far less surfing than a full time job ;-)


I did (and do) want to stick up for you!


I totally agree with the point you are making, a mum does and should have choices and rights.


Breastfeeding is always a tough topic since women who "do" face difficulties with people not supporting breast feeding in public, and being rude and upsetting towards them, those that "don't" can be made to feel guilty and needing to justify their choice.


I entirely agree it is a woman's choice, her reasons should be irrelevant, regardless of what they are.


I think the article raises stong opinions since the writer described it as being "creepy" (albeit she says that was how she personally felt about it, not a generalisation).I think the Sun picked up on "creepy" and used it in the headline out of context as is their way to sell more papers and create a story out of nothing. The writer's work position made the "creepy" headline more inflammatory.


Given her reasons for her personal choice were all about her ie come across as quite selfish (entiirely her perogative) given what was said previously she was doomed to be jumped on. And to upset people!


It is a tough call tying to balance what is best for baby with the mother's needs / wants. Whatever you choose there is an element of guilt.


I think this is just one of those sensitive issues and you were misunderstood given the high sensitivity.


Stay in the family room, its always good to hear from you and I can't think of any occasion when I disagreed with your postings o thought you unreasonable :-)


Edited to make more sense!!!

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I have to say I find the whole debate around b/f fairly tedious with the same the arguments churned out time after time there's no way new(ish) parents wouldn't have been advised of the benefits of b/f their new borns/little ones but there are many reasons why a mother may choose (or not even have the luxury of choice) not to breastfeed and there's no reason at all why she should have to explain/justify that reason to anyone. I b/f my daughter up to 8 months, after which time she weened herself off the breast onto bottle - however I prepared her for bottle feeding from day one because of a medical condition I had. I have many friends who b/f and many friends who formula fed, never once have I thought it was relevant (or appropriate) for me to ask why they made that decision.


Oh and:


ClareC Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Stay in the family room, its always

> good to hear from you


I totally agree!

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I too agree its a womans choice, never said any different.


Can I just say though, I was in a position to make an informed choice about the option of feeding my baby. But for a lot of people this isn't the case. In regards to 'there's no way new(ish) parents wouldn't have been advised of the benefits of b/f their new borns/little ones', this couldn't be further from the truth. There is way people aren't told about the benefits. Not one single time during my pregnancy did the word 'breastfeed' ever come up! And a lot of people still are unsure of the benefits.


kristymac1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I have to say I find the whole debate around b/f

> fairly tedious with the same the arguments churned

> out time after time there's no way new(ish)

> parents wouldn't have been advised of the benefits

> of b/f their new borns/little ones but there are

> many reasons why a mother may choose (or not even

> have the luxury of choice) not to breastfeed and

> there's no reason at all why she should have to

> explain/justify that reason to anyone. I b/f my

> daughter up to 8 months, after which time she

> weened herself off the breast onto bottle -

> however I prepared her for bottle feeding from day

> one because of a medical condition I had. I have

> many friends who b/f and many friends who formula

> fed, never once have I thought it was relevant (or

> appropriate) for me to ask why they made that

> decision.

>

> Oh and:

>

> ClareC Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Stay in the family room, its always

> > good to hear from you

>

> I totally agree!

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my father told me when i was nursing that me feeding a child in public was as disgusting as a man urinating in public!!! i continued to do it (discreetly of course) till he just got used to it. (then one day i found him using breast pads as coasters...)


so yes, it's a woman's choice - the really sad part is you choose between formula or BF - that's all there is - and whichever choice you make, you keep finding yourself having to justify and defend it because there will always be someone around very quick to intimate that whatever choice you made - it was the wrong one.

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