Ireland Bail Out

[Mick Mac]

Its now official - What are the wider consequences...

[????]

Portugal....then Spain....Maybe then Italy, maybe then Euro Kaput

[katie1997]

... a mass brain drain of Ireland's top talent?

[red devil]

expensive potatoes...

[Mick Mac]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> ... a mass brain drain of Ireland's top talent?

Yes and they import Quids and his friends to fill the gap. The country's doomed I tell you....doomed.

[Narnia]

Dammit........we're going to have to start winning the Eurovision again.

[Marmora Man]

It's exposed the logical flaw behind EMU but will nor, yet, lead to the collapse of the Euro. One more "bail out" might just be affordable by the EU - probably Portugal, but if it extends to Spain then I'm sure we'll see a "northern euro" (aka the Deutsmark) and a softer "southern euro" (aka the Drachma).

UK debtor balance with Eire is approx ?80bn - so a short term ?6th to bail them out makes sense. No such probs with Portugal or Spain.

[DulwichFox]

Greece were in trouble so the UK helped bail them out.

Ireland are in trouble so the UK will bail them out.

Spain in trouble ?? Don't worry, the UK will bail them out.

Portugal in trouble ?? Don't worry, the UK will bail them out.

Anyone else ?? Don't worry, the UK will bail you out.

UK in Trouble ?? Tough.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Well if the message from European Partners was ?tough? that would seem payback for England?s long-standing unhelpfulness in European matters. It?s also a measure of how relatively sound the UK economy is it doesn?t require help in the same way (yet?)

The UK isn?t helping Ireland out for altruistic or even neighbourly reasons

And the UK has had plenty of help from people over the years so less of the martyrdom please

[Emerson Crane]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> Well if the message from European Partners was

> ?tough? that would seem payback for England?s

> long-standing unhelpfulness in European matters.

> It?s also a measure of how relatively sound the

> UK economy is it doesn?t require help in the same

> way (yet?)

>

> The UK isn?t helping Ireland out for altruistic or

> even neighbourly reasons

>

> And the UK has had plenty of help from people over

> the years so less of the martyrdom please

Martyrdom? I think he's just expressing a view that many hold, which is acceptable on any forum in the interests of fairness and balance, no??

[SeanMacGabhann]

Am I stopping him or anyone holding that view? No

Do I think it's wrong? yes

And I gave my reasons why - I'm happy for you to rebutt them

[Emerson Crane]

I've no wish to enter into a slanging match over this, he has expressed his view, you've expressed your, I've expressed mine. Same old story on here, express a view someone doesn't like and they jump on you. Can we change the name of the forum to the Righteous Indignation Forum? Playing devils advocate as is often my way, why arwe offering Ireland such a huge helping hand, when we offer ailing, war torn, disease ridden poverty stricken third world countries palty amounts in comparison??? I expect your ire and outrage laden response shortly. ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

EC - chill would'ya?

It was you jumped on me without offering any basic argument - you just too umbrage at my response to someone else

Saying a lot of people feel this way doesn't mean or solve anything

The sort of outrage expressed ?why do we have to help others and where is the money coming from if we have no money? is just whining

The UK IS in trouble but it will be in MORE trouble if it doesn?t help out in this situation. Taking a stand that says ?we?re not going to help because we can?t? is only going to get you in more trouble. It?s cutting off your (and everyone elses) nose of to spite your face

So given THAT scenario what is the point of saying ?no one helps us! And we don?t have any money??

[Emerson Crane]

And your response to my point about our willingness to help out countries such as Ireland in a huge way, yet let third world countries go to hell in a hand cart? Just asking like.

Saying that other people feel the same as Dulwichfox about this simply proves that others are concerned that we seem to be all to eager to offer help when we ourselves are in a financial mire. Its a concern for him/her and others, especially when when the mantra at the moment seems to be we must all make sacrifices, tighten our belts, blah, blah, and on the other hand the goverment wants to play Santa Claus, but not to its own citizens. See my point? I'm chilled Sean, just putting a different view forward. B)

[SeanMacGabhann]

helping Ireland out at this point IS helping out the UK?s citizens

Not helping Ireland out at this point will impact directly and massively on UK citizens

A loan to Ireland is not the same as offering ?aid? to third world countries. It?s chalk and cheese

[david_carnell]

Real politik I'm afraid EC.

We (the UK) do huge amounts of trade with Ireland (about ?70bn per year I believe). If their economy tanked that would go down the swanny and we'd be in a far worse position than simply lending them ?7bn.

And if and when we were in a similar position, there would be many nations offering similar loans. It would be in their national interest too.

On an aside, it is interesting to note that back in 2006 George Osborne was lauding the Irish Tiger as the economic model the UK should be following. Lack of regulation and low business tax equalled unparalleled success according to George. Hmmmm......

[Emerson Crane]

I think the issue for most is that they struggle to see how giving huge amounts to another nation helps them. It is a selfish view perhaps, but in times of austerity I can see where thay are coming from.

[Marmora Man]

Sean & Emerson C - note that the "great" Robert Peston has pointed out that the UK bail out of Ireland may cost UK nothing, r even make a small profit. As UK is better placed in terms of creditworthiness it can borrow at 1.5% and lend the money at 5% to Ireland - netting a 3.5% benefit over the two year term of the loan. Arbitrage is a great idea.

So it is in UK's interest to assist Ireland in its travails, quite apart from ensuring that the much larger sums (circa ?80bn) owed to UK business (principally banks)are repaid and that the annual UK exports to Ireland of circa ?25bn continue.

[Keef]

George bigging up the Irish economy in 2006

[Emerson Crane]

Keef I think somebody posted this previously mate, but it does raise a smile.

[SeanMacGabhann]

What?s interesting about that article is how it was one of many voices all lauding Ireland at the time ? so anyone having a pop at the Irish government (and they sure aren?t blameless so go ahead) should bear in mind that had they tried to buck this trend they would have been swimming against the tide of popular opinion and probably chucked out by the electorate

[Jeremy]

Same old story, people read "bail out" and they assume we are just giving money away. We are not.

Sorry to sound harsh, but it's a bit ignorant really.

[Emerson Crane]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Same old story, people read "bail out" and they

> assume we are just giving money away. We are not.

>

> Sorry to sound harsh, but it's a bit ignorant

> really.

Not harsh, arrogant yes, patronising yes. Try and see things from their side, then you might temper your view. If the way this assistance, rather than bail out, was put forward in a more user friendly way, the "ignorant" among us may end up with a greater understanding of the issues surrounding this situation. Fair do you think?

[Jeremy]

I meant "ignorant" in the strictest sense of the word, rather than an insult. People make an assumption because of a lack of knowledge, and willingness to read around the subject.

If we can lend Ireland some money, eventually get it back, keep their economy afloat, and support a trading partner... why not? I can't see the downside from where I'm sitting.

[Mick Mac]

Worst case scenario - Ireland takes bail out monies, avoids default, and then defaults in two years time instead.