"I grew up on a council estate"

[Mick Mac]

Why do people state this as some sort of badge of honour...

[womanofdulwich]

only the chippy ones do.

[DJKillaQueen]

I'm not sure it is always a badge of honour thing though Mac. It depends on who is saying it and the context.

And where it is used to prove a point, that can be anything from some kind of pride (as you say badge of honour) or it can be to show that someone has exceeded the expectations of their backgorund. For many it will just be giving straight forward info on where they come from.

[felt-tip]

Should it not be a badge of honour?

[womanofdulwich]

i think that is a very dodgy generalisation. if you grew up in a council estate in the 1960's the opportunities for social mobility were almost certainly better than they are now, but that applies to everyone. if you were clever then you could get go to university and get a 100% grant. now you are looking at ?9k tuition fee threat and maintenance costs. although these are means of borrowing this money and not paying it back till later ( or if poor enough a top up which is a grant) this is harder to sell as a life enhancing thing.

Generally your aspirations will now be lower. I am sure those that are the brightest with supportive parents and friends can still make it, but it will be so much harder than it used to be.

Of course higher education is not the only way "up" but it is one of the ways .

I feel quite uncomfortable with the phrase "exceeding the expectations of your background". It is like putting a cap on you before you start. Or am I being chippy now?

[felt-tip]

What does "chippy" mean?

[oilworker]

Mobile van what comes round sellin chips - a least it was on my council estate...

[Huguenot]

A few references: resentful or oversensitive about being perceived as inferior or belligerent or touchy

[oilworker]

chip on one's shoulder

[womanofdulwich]

One of my colleagues explained this to me,as our other colleagues was a "bit chippy" - because their private/public school was not as good as his-an eye opener to me that some men suss each other out by finding out what school they went to. There is no end to the badge of honour mentality.

[Huguenot]

That's a great article - the UK definition seems particularly pertinent to the discussion:

In [the UK], it also has a meaning of somebody who has a self-righteous feeling of oppression or inferiority which they never miss an opportunity to flaunt. (This feeling is sometimes called 'chippiness' or 'being chippy'.) The implication of looking for a fight is less strong. It more implies trying to gain the upper hand through second-hand moral superiority.

In Britain this is often used in the context of a media personality or politician who drones on about their "working class roots" from a position of power and authority.

[felt-tip]

OK so if someone attacks your 'inferior' background and you defend it - is that chippy?

[Huguenot]

No, to be chippy you would have to bring up your own background, claim it to be inferior and then try and invite someone to disagree with you about it.

Being chippy is that whingey 'look how hard domne by I am' thing...

I think that's possibly what Mick Mac was particularly referring to with the OP.

[felt-tip]

Good - coz someone took the piss out of the fact I only went skiing in Bulgaria last year and I said fook off you posh twat who wants to go to Val d'Isere anyway its full of nobs and he said you is well chippy.

[Alec John Moore]

I wonder how you can be responsible fro your background as an individual since it is what you are born into and what some of us moved away from or came from or were formed in, depending on your experience and perspective. I remember being quite bewildered when at poly in the eighties meeting others who were disappointed at not getting into university. They saw poly as second best whereas I was there to do the course I wanted to and it transformed my life, allowing me to fulfil my potential.

[womanofdulwich]

ditto ajm(tu)

[DJKillaQueen]

I thought bwing chippy meant the same as a chip on the shoulder?

I feel quite uncomfortable with the phrase "exceeding the expectations of your background".

I know what you mean WOD, but as your post explains there are statistics that show that the likelyhood of those born into lower social economic to achieve upward social mobility is far less than those of better social economic backgrounds.....so it's merely a reference to that.

And you are right, for some of the reasons you list, every statistical measurement shows that it is extremely hard (not impossible) for most people in those groups (we used to call them working class) to climb the ladder. The gap is widening and the scope for upward mobility decreasing. The reasons are complex and Ladymucks thread in the drawing room (on inequality) briliantly explors some of the issues. There is a consensus that good education for all would go a long way to addressing the gap.

The irony is of course that 'stating one grew up on an estate' is most used to show that some people defy the points of the paragraph above. i.e. if one can do it, so can everyone....which of course is just not the case.

I've seen as well the public school status nonsense too. That's the same thing in essence. Is someone goes to a cheaper school then they are somehow not as worthy as the Etonian etc. Isn't that just a reflection of our obsession with background and defining pecking order?.....one of the more unlikable consequences of an 'establishment' and former class system.

[DJKillaQueen]

You are right AJM...we are not born into a level playing field. If we were then I'd have very different views on why people succeed or fail (however one defines that) in life.

Polytechnics were definitely seen as second best for some (the ones that didn't make it to similar courses at University) whilst at the same time, many people were at a Poly because that was the ONLY place they could do a degree in that subject.

[Ridgley]

I am half West Indian, seconded generation working class that did not stop me getting on in life I went to an average school in South West London I think, it was because I had parents who are pretty Victorian in there views belived that education was the key and steered us that way.

I feel if you have parents or a role model that can encourage you to get where you want to be in life that helps I am not saying it easy but it can be done I grew up 70s and 80s Britain I know only to well how hard it can be there are some people that do judge you by your background or accent. I worked in organisations that judge me automatically because I did not speak with a carrot in my mouth your lean how to handle yourself.

[Santerme]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Why do people state this as some sort of badge of

> honour...

Not sure it is a badge of honour, but I think it shows some grit and determination if you have managed to achieve your own goals, because having been bought up on a council estate, I know that it can seem to be an anchor to some.

Often it just depends how bright you are

[daizie]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Why do people state this as some sort of badge of

> honour...

I think you'd have to have grown up on a council estate to truly get it .

[steveo]

Prefab in Essex. Beat that without quoting Monty Python

[DJKillaQueen]

I grew up on an estate in the north and education was definitely my ticket out. My parents simply wanted me to have a better life than they did (even though they didn't have the financial means to make that happen) and so you have to take what you can from what comes for free. That's fine if your local comprehensive happens to border a middle-class area (as mine did) and can get a good education....it's not so great if your school is a school full of poor teachers and/ or disruptive pupils who don't want to learn, or if you have parents that give you no aspiration to learn.

And I personally don't think that social mobility is all about money either. I don't really own anything more than my parents ever did (don't own a home etc) apart from a car.....but what I have had, is a far more enriched and rewarding life because of the worlds that have opened up to me (and the opportunity given to me to come and live and work in London). I have experienced many more things than may parents ever could have hoped to. Those things have come because of (totally free) education that fortunately I was able to take advantage of.

[daizie]

I have far more respect and interest in people who have come from nothing and made good, than anyone who had a financially or otherwise privileged start.

However I cant stand the people who forget where they came from and turn into a snob .

[louisiana]

steveo Wrote:

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> Prefab in Essex. Beat that without quoting Monty

> Python

I did my A levels while living in a tent on a farm (and working in a pub to support myself - until I bailed out of that when the pub manager started on a path of sexual harassment). It could be said that my parents (specifically my father) were not exactly supportive of anything, including supporting their own kids up to the end of A levels at 18. In my father's books, children were something to be used as weapons; even his own lawyer and my last headmistress called him 'bloody minded'.

Once I'd moved out, my father sent my few possessions over in a van after having chopped them into tiny pieces with an axe (which he also used against a fridge bought by my mum - at 3am one night shortly before I left).

My half/step brothers and half sister (from two subsequent marriages) had mostly similarly toxic childhoods. My half-sister (now 15) has been in hiding from him for four years.

It has to be said: some parents are toxic. And they are not necessarily council-house dwellers (mine never went near a council house).