Lodger problem - advice needed urgently

[Pugwash]

My daughter has lodgers who have been with her about 8 months. A young couple - they have one room and use of the house, which I own. Intially they were OK, then started not to pay rent, daughter read them the riot act and this was rectified. The girl is now 5 months pregnant and my daughter has advised that they must leave before the baby is born.

She recently was contacted by a baliff company and asked whether the girl was still living there, daughter confirmed and found that the girl owes over ?600 to a company. Daughter has also noted that they have been getting loads of mail and old letters found in the recycling suggest that they owe several hundreds of pounds to other companies.

My daughter is afraid of the male, he has gradually become very abusive to his partner, and appears menacing to my daughter. She is afraid to give them eviction notice as baliaffs may take her belongings. Both lodgers are on benefit .

As the girl stays away most of the week to get away from her partner, my daughter is left alone in the house with the guy. He has been ok at the moment, but my daughter has witnessed his temper with his partner.

She lives in Sussex and the local police are not helpful. I have offered to pay for a solicitor for her. How much notice is she required to give - they pay fortnightly. How can she prove to bailiffs that everything in the house is hers and mine.

helpful advice please as to how to resolve the situation without getting hurt. Daughter suffers from OCD and the stress is making situation worse.

[littleEDfamily]

Gosh what a nightmare. My advice is a little out of left field, but can you pay them to go? My gut is that it could get very ugly if you use the 'stick' approach and perhaps it is easier to cut your losses and just offer them an incentive to leave, particularly if they are in financial difficulty they may just take it. May only cost you as much as a solicitor would.

What contractual arrangement did they have with each other when they moved in? Ideally they would have something in writing, but even a verbal arrangement is a contract (albeit much more difficult to enforce if the terms are disputed, obviously). If you did want to go a more formal route of serving notice and evicting, such a contract would effectively set the 'rules'.

In the meantime, I would ensure the police are made aware if not already of your daughter's concerns for her safety.

[Pugwash]

My daughter and I are not in the position of paying them off. She drew up a brief tenancy agreement and got them to sign it. They get Housing Benefit from the council and they accepted the agreement. Once the pregnancy was confirmed and the 12 week scan undertaken, the couple were allowed to make an application to go on the Housing List.

My daughter's worry is that the bailiffs may not believe that everything in the house is hers - she evens supplies the bed linen for their room. When she split from her then fiance 3 years ago, she had no idea he had run up hundreds of pounds in debts and had a hard time convincing bailiffs not to take the things she had brought ( he ex had taken things like TV and stero)

She was forced to take in a lodger as insufficient income to pay the utility bills and help her run a car (working 15 miles away in the middle of the countryside which has twice a day bus service only - a car is essential)

I think she should give a couple of weeks notice to quit, but get legal advice as to how to manage the bailiffs. Her boyfriend, who does not live with her, has offered to be there when she gives notice. Her brother in law is going down tomorrow for the day to do some plumbing work, he might be able to give a better slant on the situation.

[Narnia]

I suggest you/she contact citizens advice.

[ratty]

Section 21 Notice Requiring Posession - 2 months and then out! This is presuming their tenure was by way of an Assured Shorthold Tenancy and the shorthold period has expired.

Re the bailiffs - they have no right to enter the property and they know this, she will have to play hardball with them until the tenants are gone.

Afraid her credit rating may be screwed because of address links (not an expert in this field though)

Good luck!

[Strawbs]

Speak to a solicitor, get one on a fixed fee and get it sorted.. If bailiff potentially an issue get high value stuff out if her place and in to yours...

[ClareC]

They only rent a room, and it's in HER home. This means Far less rights than if they had an assured shorthold. They will be deemed to have a licence rather than a lease. Def speak with the citizens advice bureau, (The situation may have been updated) but the case always used to be the notice was deemed reasonable if the same as the rental period ie 2 weeks. Good luck.

[ClareC]

Re bailiff, keep receipts for everything, bank statements showing purchases. Also do not let them in!

[Twirly]

It strikes me that you have two issues here. One is the legal aspects of a) how to get them out and b) the bailiffs. But you also have the psychological issue of how to handle the partner to ensure that he doesn't get violent, and sadly, it doesn't matter if your daughter has the law on her side if he loses his temper, though obviously it will give her confidence. So definitely consult the CAB/a solicitor.

Is there anyone who can go and stay with her during the notice period? This is for two reasons, one is his temper, but also if they have financial problems, you don't want stuff going missing. He may be less likely to kick off if there is a witness, and she may feel more comfortable having back up. And be prepared to change the locks when they've gone, just in case. Best of luck in getting this resolved amicably.

[Saffron]

Re: Bailiff-- Do not even let them in. You have the right to refuse them entry. Keep all doors and windows locked. Never let a bailiff in, even to use the phone or toilet! Once a bailiff HAS obtained 'peaceful entry' (Ha!), they are then allowed to break-in to your property later (weird!). But even once a bailiff has entered, there are certain items that they are not allowed to take anyway, eg essential domestic items, beds/linen, kitchenware, clothing, etc.

[Sue]

Pugwash, deffo speak to Citizens Advice Bureau, and if at all possible someone should stay with your daughter until this is resolved, for everybody's peace of mind.

I'm so sorry, what a nightmare.

Lodgers definitely have fewer rights than tenants, because the owner lives in the same place. But CAB should be able to advise on the exact ins and outs of this situation.

Good luck.

[Fabricio the Guido]

Basic advice is. Correct. Licence and notice period is two weeks same as rent period. Don' t think baliff is a problem just don't open the door to them.

[tog_in_sox]

So sorry to hear about the nightmare.

Definitely get someone to go stay over and definitely an assertive, physically capable male or female with a level head. It's not much point having someone else who might cave under duress and it's not much point having someone who can't physically assist or intercede as waiting for the police or a good samaritan might be too late.

Definitely change the locks on all exterior doors.

Definitely refuse bailiffs access, unfortunately if your lodgers are stupid enough to let them in you're compromised :(

See here for various advice about rights: spareroom

landlords

Good luck on a safe and civil resolution.

[Pugwash]

many thanks for all the advice. Trouble is there is nobody who can go and stay with her, the lodgers have the only spare room and bed. Whilst hubby can stay one night on the sofa - could not do so for an indefinate period in terms of time and his comfort ( he has arthritis as well as another disability).

Lodgers have not been seen since Tuesday lunch time, daughter went into their room - TV and playstation still there as well as some of their clothes. Room is a pigsty with mouldy food, unwashed plates, etc. Rent day is Monday, they have already had one warning about late payment of rent and treatened with eviction. We have agreed that I write a letter giving 28 days notice of termination as since hubby is medically retired, he can go and stay with daughter for a few days and we do not want to pay hotel fees. This takes some pressure off daughter, but does not solve the bailiff situation. I have advised her that since the lodgers may let the bailiffs in whilst she is at work, to put stickers on all her property with her name on and place notices in prominant places that all furniture, white goods, TV etc is her property and any attempt to remove will be classed as unlawful.

If the lodgers do not return by rent day and rent is not paid, are they still entitled to the 28 days eviction notice and how do you serve it on someone who is not there?.

My view is that if you pack their things up and keep in a secure place i.e. a locked cupboard, they cannot make a claim against you for disposing of their belongings.

Will certainly change the locks.

[LadyDeliah]

I think if tenant breaches terms of licence then you don't need to give notice. I would imagine putting someone in fear, running up debts etc would be a breach and once permission to be in the premises is withdrawn they are technically trespassers. You can get police involved to ensure no breach of the peace when you want them out and you could mention the fear of physical reprisals because violence with trespass can be aggravated tresspass, which is a criminal offence.

[Mick Mac]

Sounds like they might have done a runner to me. With a bit of luck.

[Twirly]

Have you been to the CAB yet? You certainly need to, particularly with regard to the rent issue.

[DJKillaQueen]

If they are running up debts then most likely they have done a runner. Change the locks once you are sure.

With reagards to bailiffs. Contact any that leave notice or call, and explain the named was a lodger, that they left no personal goods of value. The bailiff should then refer back to their client whom I'd advise you also contact directly in writing, and explain the situation. The bailiffs shouldn't be an issue (as they have no right to force entry as long as all windows and doors are closed) but you will need to check that the debtors haven't listed your address with a credit agency.

[tog_in_sox]

Have you taken advice about your daughters rights as live in landlord and the couple's rights of residency?

From the links I posted they have very limited rights. Where did your 28 dyas come from? If they were on fortnightly terms then I don't believe you're obliged to anything more than that by way of notice. Were your "threats" of eviction verbal or in writing?

You've not mentioned what terms were laid down in the tenancy agreement signed. Have they breached any of these?

Talk to the Housing Benefit office about what's happened to your missing payments and how non-payments affects the terms of tenancy and the couple's right to claim.

Definitely check with the Creditors and possibly the Credit Reference agencies to see about whether your daughter's address has been used by them to establish any credit agreements.

Fingers crossed for you but for Heaven's sake don't bury your heads about any of this, better to worry about everything and have your fears allayed than to blunder into a world of credit troubles.