Funeral costs

[Shuggy]

Apologies for the gloomy subject matter, but I'm in the unfortunate position of organising a funeral for my terminally ill uncle, and --apologies again if this appears insensitive but--it seems very expensive to me. The cost will be paid from his estate, but in the interest of saving as much as I can for his widow, I'd really like to get some thoughts from those who may have been in this position before. Is it worth shopping around between funeral directors? The fact that this subject is so taboo is probably what leads to high costs because people are either too grief-stricken or just embarrassed to question them. I imagine at the time of losing a loved one people are just grateful to have someone take care of things and pay the price.

I hope this is not too sensitive a topic, but any help/thoughts most welcome.

Many thanks.

[aspidistra]

Funeral directors make a lot on stuff like coffins (and few coffin companies sell direct - it's a cartel).

One company that sells direct (inc. wicker)

http://www.coffincompany.co.uk

From their site:

"A study, commissioned by Axa Sun Life Direct, analyses the average cost of a standard burial and cremation in each of the 10 government-defined regions.

The 2008 figures show that the average cost of a funeral in the UK was ?2,549, but hit ?3,424 in London. Over the past five years, average UK funeral costs have increased by 32.8%.

For a burial, there is the cost of a double-depth grave and clergy fees.

Component costs in the standard funeral include an average ?444 fee paid to the crematorium, ?142 for doctors' fees needed for cremation. The basic average burial cost is ?1,124, with clergy fees for conducting a service typically being about ?92.

Additional services that are often used include the death notice, a funeral notice, service order sheets, extra limousine hire, flowers, venue hire and catering at a wake, a memorial or Book of Remembrance and probate - the administration of the estate.

The cost of using all these services would add an average of ?4,149 to the funeral bill."

[edcam]

It is I'm afraid an expensive business and the figures in aspidistra's post are about right (my father passed away last year.) Most people don't have the time or inclination to shop around much at a time like this but from advice we sought, the costs were much of a muchness. Burial more expensive than cremation.

This was down in Kent so I don't know if there is any inflation of costs if the funeral is to be held in London. We had a cremation, a hearse, one extra limousine and one big flower arrangement and it was just over ?3000 when we included extra copies of death certificates, service sheets, a fairly basic reception with a buffet, teas and coffees. It's definitely worth shopping around if you are hiring somewhere for a reception but everything else seems to more or less cost what it costs. They have a captive audience after all.

Yes, it is a miserable subject but a good question, which most of us will have to be part of organising at one time or another.

[PeckhamRose]

Don't read the following unless you are feeling detached and strong!

I have worked as a funeral arranger, and now work as a Humanist Funeral Celebrant.

I can tell you that technically, you could arrange to do everything yourself.

What a funeral director will do for the money you pay (aside from the coffin), is

a) take the pressure off,

b) lend the proceedings formal dignity and utter respect

c) organise the removal of the deceased from place of death to their morgue / freezer, and then organised a respectful well practiced funeral ceremony where they will arrive in the hearse and so on.

As I said, technically, family and friends could do this themselves. But you need to think:

1) How are you going to get the deceased from the place of death to the crematorium, and where will he be in the meantime? There is the possibility the hospital (if that is where he dies) will keep him a few days until the ceremony. But how are you going to get him to the crematorium?

2) Indeed coffins come in all designs and colours and materials now, even reinforced cardboard boxes! (They're not really just cardboard boxes, imagine that for real if you will. Exactly.) You could of course have it delivered to the hospital if you contact the morgue for advice and then they can place the body in the coffin which the coffin company will deliver to them.

3) You can book the crematorium time yourself. Fine.

But are any of the friends and relatives going to be in a strong enough emotional state to do all this organising?

4) You could even organise your own hearse and hearse driver separately. Look on line. I once hired a motorcycle hearse for a biker's funeral. But the hospital morgue will be the contact (if he dies there) and will be able to tell you what is and what is not possible.

If he dies in a Hospice many of the larger ones also have their own freezers, which would be useful if you have to wait a day or two. If you are having him embalmed for others to view, embalming only usually lasts a few days, and after that I hate to say (I did warn you) the body does rather go down hill quickly. But embalming usually takes place at a funeral directors so I doubt this will be an issue here.

So, for now, I would suggest you phoning the hospital morgue for advice and also the offices of the crematorium you are planning to have the ceremony at. They will both advise well. Then see if you can get a hearse organised, and discuss with closest friends and family if they're willing to go ahead and do everything themselves. Think about taking the coffin from the hearse to the catafalque (the place the coffin rests on in the crematorium). Usually takes four people preferably of similar heights. Can you think of who may be able to do this?

Completely alternatively, of course if this is to be a cremation, you could go the American route, and not attend. They tend to just have a memorial at a separate place, and very rarely actually attend a crematorium. But whatever you do, remember there may be many friends and relatives who may, just may, be upset that it was not a formal ceremony.

There is a lot of competition amongst funeral directors and I can honestly say that the rates are pretty much the same amongst all of them. It is a profession. They train for this stuff and I have never seen a ceremony that has not been carried out with anything less than perfection and utter respect. This goes for having worked in the 'back' offices, too.

Sorry for having gone on so long. I wish you the best, and good for you for thinking about it. So many people do not until it is too late. Oh, and also think about who is going to speak? On average you have about 40 mins from the time the hearse arrives to the time the next one is due. So give yourselves 30 mins for the ceremony itself.

If this is a religious ceremony you may need a vicar priest or whatever. If you don't some people who attend may be upset. If it is not a religious ceremony then think of the order of who and what can be said (PM me and I shall send you a brief template as a guide if you wish).

Peckham Rose

[PeckhamRose]

More:

You also need to think about whether (if it is a cremation) there will be a formal commital or you want to leave the coffin in the room as you leave. Some people hate that, feeling they are abandoning the deceased. Others hate the thought of that final goodbye, but it does serve a purpose of the opportunity for a final goodbye to be said. A very important sense of closure.

If you are having music make sure the crematorium staff have it in good time on the day. Whoever is leading the ceremony will have a button to press for the music and then if there is to be one, for the commital. Find out if they want CDs or on an MP3.

As I trained to be a celebrant I was taught that if you get the funeral right it goes a mighty long way to helping in the grieving process.

Heck, so many things to think about!

[Asset]

My mother and her partner recently arranged the funeral of his father themselves. They said as well as the huge savings financially it was a hugely liberating experience and gave them a feeling of control and involvement.

They also said initially they came up against a lot of resistance but that ultimately every one (mortuary assistant, crematorium etc) was extremely helpful.

They hired the services of an undertaker to transport the body from the mortuary to the crematorium but that was all, they did everything else themselves. They were in a position that he died in hospital so the body was stored in the hospital mortuary, may be a problem of storage if the person dies at home.

They were actually considering hiring a van to do the journey to crematorium but undertaker was around the same price.

[Asset]

As far as the actual service goes - that is up to the family anyway how things are to be done. You can get nice raffia or cardboard coffins that aren't too expensive, can be draped with nice material also.

Friend of mine was cremated recently in a cardboard coffin that all the kids that new him had drawn pictures on, really touching and personal.

[Mick Mac]

Have yoi tried the co op?

[PeckhamRose]

The Co-op is no cheaper than other funeral directors and you often get less choice of the days you have the cremation. I don't know if you would be entitled to dividends though if you present your Co-op card when you pay but now I am being silly.

But what a BRILLIANT idea with the cardboard coffin being decorated by the kids. The wicker and bamboo coffins can also be decorated by threading flowers and mementoes within the threads of wicker or bamboo.

[womanofdulwich]

ive always said i wanted a horse drawn glass carraige( it looks so beautiful) and MUM in white chrysanthamums- how much extra will this be then???

[PeckhamRose]

When I worked at a funeral directors, 2 horse drawn cost about ?750 and 4 horse cost about ?1000. This was serveal years ago.

[ianr]

> I don't know if you would be entitled to dividends though if you present your Co-op card when you pay but now I am being silly.

They do seem to actually, excluding such as disbursements and masonry sales.

I used to raise the odd metaphorical eyebrow whenever I saw the credit card sticker that used to be in the Co-op funeral care door. This was at a time when one of the cards' slogans was "Takes the waiting out of wanting."

[Shuggy]

Thanks for all the replies and advice--some really useful stuff here that I hope other forumites can benefit from in the future. Some very interesting ideas about taking on the tasks yourself and I really like the idea that you can make it so personalised if you do.

I'm going to check some local funeral directors and get a price comparison. I understand that Dignity, a national chain of local directors, tends to be more pricey than Co-op, and there are lots of independent directors too.

I obviously don't want to compromise on the service for the sake of few pounds if I do use one, but it's worth checking if there is a big difference in quotes and I'll post what I find on here as a guide for others.

I know it seems a bit callous to be talking money at such a time, but unfortunately it seems there are a LOT of practicalities to deal with. I imagine the best way to be sure you're loved one is geting the best care from a funeral director is to go by recommendations from others that have used their service. Again, funeral directors is not something you see a lot of recommendations for, but it would be really helpful if people felt inclined to do so.

[Emerson Crane]

My father died a few years ago and we wanted to bury him in the cemetry nearest to his home which is in Brockely, the nearest cemetry being Brenchley Gardens. We contacted Southwark Council and were advised that as he was a resident of Lewisham rather than Southwark, the burial plot would cost 3 times the cost for residents, which would mean having to pay ?7500 just for the burial plot. I thought this was outrageeous as he lived a few hundred yards from Brenchley Gardens. This may or may not be something you want to take into consideration.

[Ridgley]

Blimey!

[PeckhamRose]

And with the council cuts, burials and cremations are going up lots.

If you are on benefits you can get a small amount towards it but it is nothing like the real cost. Indeed Funeral Directors Association are themselves lobbying govt over increasing the amount they contribute.

Incidentally, the phrase "Pauper's funeral" is a really inappropriate phrase. It sounds like no-one cares or does anything properly or with respect. I promise you this is not the case. In my experience Pauper's Funerals, properly called A funeral and the tax payer's expense or something, is carried out just as respectfully, and often a poem is read by the Funeral Director herself or himself (there are more women in this profession now and also a lot of younger men and women). I know that Humanist celebrants will work for free in thie situation too, especially if it is known the deceased was not religious. I certainly would do that (ie not charge).

[Pugwash]

When my father in law died suddenly 9 years ago, I did some phoning around for both cremation and burials ( he wanted burial) Cheapest burial 9 years ago was ?3000 - dearest ?5000 - hearse and one car. We settled for a cremation which was under ?2000 with just the hearse.

I am going to my mother's funeral tomorrow - she had a funeral plan via Age Concern for ?2500 just a hearse. Having died in St. Christopher's in Bromley, we had to register the death there even though she lived in Lewisham. Had she wanted to be buried we would have had to pay extra to use brenchley gardens (the family grave is there) as a non resident of Southwark. However, if cremated you can choose your crematorium, but pay for each county/borough boundary the body has to pass through.

[PeckhamRose]

What do you mean?

"However, if cremated you can choose your crematorium, but pay for each county/borough boundary the body has to pass through."

The hearse takes the coffin through three counties from place of death to burial/cremation site.

How to the boroughs know the route and why would they charge?

(Sorry, am I being thick? What did I miss there?)

[Shuggy]

Sorry to hear about your loss Pugwash and I hope the funeral goes well. There does seem to be an issue with boundaries?-sometimes to a ridiculous extent as Emerson's post shows. Luckily we're looking to have a cremation which doesn't seem to be a problem.

[computedshorty]

I have arranged my own and my wife?s Funerals in advance, with the Co-op, as we have no close relatives, I was thoughtful of a funeral falling onto a distant relative to arrange and who not knowing of the local facilities to go to, would cause some worry.

Receiving my Co-op Dividend the funerals were not credited, I phoned them up and they apologised for the error and the Dividend would be added to my next, six month statement, this is a one payment credit as I paid in one advance payment, monthly payments Funerals Dividend will be added as time passes.

The two Cremation Funerals cost just under ?5.000.

This has given me a sense of relief as the person dealing with the basic Funeral is paid for any additions can be added if wanted later.

It must be remembered by the person dealing with a un prepaid funeral that no money will be available in advance of the deceased affairs being settled. The account will presented on the immediate conclusion of the Funeral.

Due to the Wartime death of my wife?s father he was buried in at "Pauper's funeral" a thing that my wife often refers to.

The Cremation of my father was also traumatic, as there were so many of us leaving home for the funeral several of us used our own cars, my car broke down in Brenchley Gardens near One Tree Hill ( petrol had been siphoned out of the tank ), we ran across the Cemetery to the Crematorium just in time to see dads coffin disappear.

I have been to a funeral where the Coffin was made of cardboard, but it had to have an unsightly Pallet underneath to keep it from folding up.

I respect that there are still Burials, but listening to people talking they seldom or never have visited the Grave, as the memories are too distressing. It could be the fact that the Coffin was floating on water, or the water pump could be seen or heard nearby.

I have attended so many funerals of my Army pals that I doubt if any left would be able through old age get to mine.

?Oh well. Last one to go? ?Turn out the light?.

[Pugwash]

Not sure how this is done - I assume that this is likely to be a charge by the undertakers rather than the boroughs.

Heard last week of someone's son who died in Sussex and needed to be buried in Brenchley Gardens - bill was almost ?9000 due to the distance - she was also informed of the additional county/district boundaries costs - hence the high bill

[EMR]

So what happens in the present day if say, one of your parents die, and neither they nor you have any savings to pay for a ?3000 funeral?

Do you just have to get a bank loan? What if you haven't got a good credit score/are unemployed and therefore the bank doesn't want to lend?

[PeckhamRose]

See above.

You can get some but not enough help for costs from the state.Or

You can opt for the funeral at the public expense.

Meanwhile, and for the original poster, here is a website at the page of the DIY funerals.

The Good Funeral Guide.

[mockney piers]

Are there laws against Pyres?

That's how I'd like to go (ceremonially speaking of course, as I'd sooner not be alive when I'm on it).

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

We could arrange an ersatz Viking funeral at Dulwich park for you - just nick a stray dog to lie at your feet.

Gives a whole new meaning to: "Come in number 17, your time is up."