Would you be a scab?

[benjaminty]

I've been asked by my boss to go and cross a picket line in another country after a stand off between my company and the unions.

The performance of this other country's business has been so poor that it's written off profits made in the UK and as a result very few people in the UK have had a rise in the last 2 years.

Would you go?

[Pearson]

Ask for triple time, company car and free private medical care for you extended family.

If they refuse, head to the recruitment consultant and get yourself another job.

;-]

[Loz]

Are you a union person? If so, then no, don't go.

Me? I'd be over there in a jiffy.

[silverfox]

But Loz, they're obviously voting with their feet

[Applespider]

Do you agree with why they are striking? If so, don't cross the picket line. If not, do.

[Chick]

No. Not under any circumstances. You could be next on a picket line, would you like it if someone crossed it?

[*Bob*]

If my union (sorry.. ex union) had a picket line I'd take the day off specially and spend it crossing back and forth whilst waving and tipping my hat.

The notion that all unions are the same, are always doing the right thing by you and deserve your undying loyalty (and annual subscription) is bizarre.

[benjaminty]

The reason they are on strike is that my company wrote to the main union about poential redundancies and the Union chose to ignore the letter.

In my view the union have NOT done right by the staff (just my view).

If I chose to go on strike and someone else was called in to do my job ... isn't that just my company covering themselves and doing the best for their clients? Would I just expect my company to do just shrug their shoulders?

undecided

[Marmora Man]

It's very simple.

If you agree with the protest - strike. If you don't agree - don't strike.

Personally, I belive most strikes and union organised action a total waste of time. There was a period in history when Trades Unions were able to achieve significant improvements in conditions and pay for their members using solidarity and the option of strikes as negotiation tactics.

Those days are long past - sufficient employment legislation is in place to protect all workers. Unions these days have morphed into activist movements where the interests of union members and the company's customers come in a long way behind political posturing and rhetoric. cf: Bob Crow and RMT Union, The BA dispute, the RCN's recent rhetoric about strikes in protest against Gov't action etc.

[benjaminty]

It's not a question as to whether I strike... it's whether I go to another country to stand in and provide continuity of services to clients whilst a strike takes place.

Thanks Marmora Man I think you've helped me make up my mind. The country in question has far better employee protection laws than the UK... which is really why we are in this pickle.

[david_carnell]

I would urge you to reconsider Benjaminty.

People do not strike for fun. They do not strike because it's a hoot and a chance to stick two fingers up to management. They strike because it is a last resort and they are desperate. They strike because all other avenues of negotiation have failed and they feel it is a last resort.

Put yourself in their shoes. It is not about how good employment laws are in their country - this is a red herring - it is about the fundamental right to withdraw labour.

I would suggest that as a worker, rather than management, your sympathies should lie with them and you should respect their cause but a method of non-intereference. Do no ill. Your conscience will thank you even if your wallet does not. I know it is your view that the union is in the wrong but they will have balloted members for this action and a majority disagree with you.

[Chick]

Well said DC

[DJKillaQueen]

Will this company go bankrupt if the strike continues? That to me seems to be the only question to ask.

It is not true to say that all strikes are valid or a last resort. They are sometimes used as a means to bully employers (by those unions calling the strike).

If a company is failing and needs to make people redundant to save itself, that is a very different proposition to a company making people redundant to maximise efficiency and profit.

My view would be that if the survival of the company depeneds on it being able to stay in business during the strike then cross the line. If the company can afford to ride out the strike....then don't cross the line.

[Loz]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People do not strike for fun. They do not strike

> because it's a hoot and a chance to stick two

> fingers up to management. They strike because it

> is a last resort and they are desperate. They

> strike because all other avenues of negotiation

> have failed and they feel it is a last resort.

Unless you work for the RMT. At that point it becomes a hobby.

[david_carnell]

DJKQ - you're asking a question that an average employee or member of the public couldn't hope to answer.

How would you know?

Loz - all I know is that I wouldn't want to that job for love nor money.

[Loz]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Loz - all I know is that I wouldn't want to that

> job for love nor money.

Driving a tube train? Or standing next to Bob Crow on a picket line?

Actually, what's wrong with driving a tube train? Seems a reasonable way of earning ?40K+ a year. I'd rather be a tube driver than a teacher - that is one job you'd never get me doing. (And that's no dig at teachers - I'm an awe at the crap you have to deal with.)

[*Bob*]

I would have thought if you join a union and agree with the general principles of democracy and majority ruling, then you ought to support the union even if you disagree.

If not, you should leave the union and do whatever you please, as I did.

In practice however - leaving some unions could possibly leave you with no friends at work and dogshit through your letterbox.

[david_carnell]

Those Equity members are bastards aren't they, Bob?

[Huguenot]

Equity was stupid in New Zealand. It was behaving like an imperial power dealing with the witless natives. They should all have been shot. (geddit ;-))

That aside, I think that if you join a 'union' the clue is in the name. You give up the right to self determination. If you want to think for yourself then don't call up your gang to back it.

Apart from that, I back Marmora Man completely. He seems to have presented a very clear and non-ideological view of recent industrial actions.

"If you agree with the protest - strike. If you don't agree - don't strike."

[Huguenot]

Just to add....

"I would suggest that as a worker, rather than management, your sympathies should lie with them..."

What century are you in Carnell ;-) ?

I teach people (for their sins) management theory. The only place you'd find this kind of dividing line between contemporary management and the workers would be a chinese building site.

Industry batters this idiocy out of the minds of companies from an early stage. We're not in an environment where grammar school boys are management and 'the rest' are shop stewards.

Only 6% of the workforce are in manufacturing (where you could plausibly make a distinction between operations and administration). The rest are in some degree of service industry where 'upward' migration is a hazy analogue process.

Bloody hell.

[david_carnell]

We're all middle class now, right?

I have a feeling trying to talk to a management consultant about workers rights would be less successful than trying to teach clay pigeon shooting to Helen Keller.

And if you think that divide only exists on Chinese building sites you've never worked for the NHS. Or London Underground. Or the Fire Brigade. Or BA. It's not just manufacturing - service industries is where it's at.

[peterstorm1985]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> And if you think that divide only exists on

> Chinese building sites you've never worked for the

> NHS. Or London Underground. Or the Fire Brigade.

> Or BA. It's not just manufacturing - service

> industries is where it's at.

I didn't think I was going to agree with anything DC said, but this bit is so true. When the profit line is in an upward direction and bonuses fall into pay packets everyone rubs along nicely; but I've seen the back rooms of a couple of call centres when cuts have been suggested and the management/worker divide quickly opens up. Pretty uncomfortable for me as I've been doing audit work, so 'one of them', but I didn't notice any of the 'workers' sitting down for a rational discussion of whether it might be necessary to benefit the business and the remaining employees long term.

My view is as others have said: "If you agree with the protest - strike. If you don't agree - don't strike."

[mockney piers]

Why doesn't the business sell off the facility to the workers allowing them to run it as a collective and live the anarcho-syndicalist dream.

I bet you the productivity rates will undergo a dramatic transformation!

[Loz]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And if you think that divide only exists on

> Chinese building sites you've never worked for the

> NHS. Or London Underground. Or the Fire Brigade.

> Or BA. It's not just manufacturing - service

> industries is where it's at.

So... anywhere where there is a heavy union presence. Are they the cure or the cause?

[Marmora Man]

And if you think that divide only exists on Chinese building sites you've never worked for the NHS. Or London Underground. Or the Fire Brigade. Or BA. It's not just manufacturing - service industries is where it's at.

David, I don't know about the London Underground or the Fire Brigade - except as a disgruntled customer of one and jaundiced observer of the other, but I do know about the NHS.

NHS staff (not workers- there is an almost indistinguishable separation between tiers of employees from junior to senior in every sector within the NHS) have many rights, they are not oppressed or even asked to do anything too challenging in many cases.

In most cases all staff from CEO to mortuary cleaner are so protected it is just about impossible to properly discipline or dismiss a poorly performing employee - even for the most severe failure. If a dismissal is achieved - recourse to an Industrial Tribunal will, usually, result in a major payment in recompense. Those who wish to change things are often so worn down by the experience that they become reluctant to even start to tackle difficult issues.