Jump to content

Cue lots of tedious discussions about women being to blame for infertility


reren

Recommended Posts

Guidelines have been released today recommending extending Ivf to women up to age of 42 on NHs. Now we can expect lots of tedious headlines about selfish career women choosing to leave it too late/ wasting NHs money. I love Mariella Frostrup she was great on newsnight - making the point that it isn't just women's choice to leave it til after 35 to have kids. So infuriating that men not wanting to settle down and have babies pre-35 is never discussed. Culturally it's as much of a 'problem'as women supposedly making that choice! (If its a choice at all...bet a huge number of women having Ivf after 40 have been trying other means to have babies for years before they turn to ivf anyway) Makes me so angry that we don't ever - as a society - say to young men 'if you want to have an easy time having kids with the woman you love - get her pregnant as young as you can!' In fact we constantly reinforce the idea that men can keep making babies into their 90s so fertility isn't something for them to worry about. So outdated to behave as though women have all the responsibility in decisions about making children when in fact it's generally v much a joint decision.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree completely that this is not a woman only decision, and definitely that in the majority of cases it will probably be couples who have been trying and trying.


However, there is a fair argument that the NHS will not fund certain drugs or treatments because they don't feel there is enough of a chance that they'll cure a patient. You can see why these patients would be put out, when the chances of IVF working for these older couples is are less.


I basically think it's a good thing, but I equally think that some of the arguments against are very valid.


Rags like the Mail won't worry about these valid arguments, they'll just print their usual shite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It odd that it's not better know how men's age affects genetic disorders. There is a great deal of evidence coming forward suggesting men's age is also very important.


Reren, do you have a link to the new guidelines? How many rounds of IVF will the NHS typically pay for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, my friend's wife was told that she wouldn't be eligible for treatment because she was older than 35 a few years back. But from what I understand, each area can go below the minimum guidelines laid out by the NHS. It turns out she just needed a simple operation and now they have a lovely boy but she was outraged at the time. When I looked it up, to qualify for IVF, they say you have to have been trying to get pregnant for 3 years. How on earth are you supposed to prove that? Another friend, when she had fertility issues trying to concieve her second, was told by the NHS in her area that because she already had a baby she didn't qualify for treatment of any kind, which also surprised me. The entire system seems so opaque. Still, its better than in the US where my sister had to go into crazy debt to have a twins...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To sound like I'm writing for The Mail: it is a real postcode lottery. A friend of mine was eligible for treatment, while her otherwise equivalent colleague in the neighbouring borough wasn't, purely because of the areas they lived in. (The sad thing in their situation is that the first person is a lot richer than the second, who couldn't afford to go private...) People do get into debt here too - I know people who have, either because they couldn't get any chances on the NHS or because their allocated chances had been used up...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"To sound like I'm writing for The Mail: it is a real postcode lottery. A friend of mine was eligible for treatment, while her otherwise equivalent colleague in the neighbouring borough wasn't, purely because of the areas they lived in."


This is the case throughout the NHS, because it all depends on the local trust. Whilst they're all "NHS", they are totally seperate businesses that manage their own budgets as they see fit.


Not fair, but there you go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WoD- is your friend too thin? My sister was overweight and had to shed to pounds before she tried (she wasn't obliged to but was told she would have a much better shot if she did).



Otta, yes, it is all about the trusts. Obviously, every community wants every treatment possible. I wonder how the trusts go about determining the best use of their budget to best satisfy the communities they serve. Is there any official community engagement? It's good that they can react to specific health needs and adjust spending according to local needs but on the non-life threatening expenditure I wonder how priorities are set.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oooh, this really infuriates me. You would think that women were having virgin births, or that the desirable thing to do is to go back to 16-year-old girls marrying men in their 40s a la Jane Austen.


I had to explain this to my (otherwise lovely) Daily-Mail reading, Tory MiL - she was astonished to find out that my entire NCT class were all in their 30s and that (gasp!) 3 of us were 38. She really hadn't thought about the fact that, even if women do want to have children in their 20s, they are not guaranteed AT ALL in finding a man of a similar age who wanted to do the same (including her own sons! - Mr Oi would have run a mile in his 20s had any woman suggested he start a family); or that, as everything is so expensive these days, housing most obviously, couples might have to work for longer before starting a family with a reasonable amount of security. Or indeed that a women might want to have a career and continue it for a decent while - why put in all that work in your 20s just to back away from it. I don't see anyone suggesting that a man should drop or backpedal his career for his family.


Grrrrrrr.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most importantly, I think it's great that there is a guideline now. NICE plays a very important role. I'm very nervous for its future under this government. They have already changed its accountability, such that now it reports direct to the Minister for Health, rather than an independent Trust. Makes me nervous for its independence.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow LondonMix I know it's not super common in ED and environs to have babies in your twenties but it does happen - I was just totting up in my head those I know (4 local mums, 4 schoolfriends, several work colleagues - all conceived on purpose, all middle class/highly educated) and then I realised I needed to add myself! I was 28 pregnant 29 giving birth with my first and will be 32 with my second. Do feel lucky but don't feel crazy unusual. Anyway off topic, I wish anyone on an assisted conception/IVF journey the best of luck, it's a hard slog with amazing results as have seen with very close friends.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree about woman-blaming media coverage, and the postcode lottery for IVF.


A friend of mine in her early 30s was told that because she'd conceived but had a miscarriage, the clock would start again on the 3-year wait for IVF. Horrible. She moved to a different area (unconnected reasons) and they said she could have one NHS cycle in a few months time. It's unfair that the access is different in different places.


Mr Smiler understands now, after we went through secondary fertility issues, he tells all his friends who are dithering about children to go for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LondonMix: I had my first at 24, became pregnant at 23. On purpose (we tried for a bit, nowt happened, so gave up and then found out I was pregant). Had my second at 25. All on purpose. I was married when I was 24 too (also on purpose ;)).

Everyone, from MWs to SHO on the labour ward, assumed that I was an accidental teenage mother until they cast their eyes over my notes. Everyone also makes assumptions about my 'social' class when they hear this.


So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. HTH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What? I never said anything disparaging about young mothers. Social class never came into it. Why everyone assumes they know anything about my own class (my mother was a social worker, my husband grew up on benefits) is beyond me. I have money now but I don't come from money and my friends come from a wide range of social backgrounds.


I'm happy for you that you intentionally started a family when you wanted to whatever your age. No one I am close to has chosen to do so in their 20s (on purpose) and its becoming a less common choice (particularly in cities) for a host of reasons.


Your anger is not with me but lies with your own insecurity so stop projecting your crap on me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...