Childcare costs conundrum

[AnyaJoeli]

Hello

I have been offered a spot with a lovely childminder in peckham, but she seems awfully expensive to me. i just wanted to get some ideas for benchmarking to help me make my decision (which I'm agonising about...).

It works out as ?64 per day, which includes meals and snacks. I'd have to pay holiday (inc bank holidays) and sick pay too, full price. I appreciate that childminders are freelance but I'm also freelance, a Pilates instructor, and I don't get holiday and sick pay so I guess I'm struggling with having to potentially outlay a tonne of money because of these policies. And a couple of quick questions about my friends' childminders make me feel like I'd be paying significantly more than average for Peckham/nunhead area. The day I am looking for is Monday so across the year I'll be paying quite a bit for bank holidays that I don't use her services.

I might just not be au fait with how it works, and my current childcare arrangement is pretty ad hoc and flexible so I may just be balking at having to enter the real world...would love to hear other arrangements and whether this sounds reasonable and right.

Thanks!!

Anya x

[canela]

Have you looked around a bit? Whilst there are people that charge that much, you can get lovely childminders for a lot less. I've paid ?50 a day including meals. I think rules for sick pay and pretty much everything can differ so have a look around until you find something you feel comfortable with. There are also childminders who will offer something more ad hoc and flexible - if that is what you need.

[alieh]

We paid ?50/day in SE22 but that was about 3 years ago and I wouldn't be surprised if it would be closer to what you're looking at now. I am having trouble remembering but I don't think we paid for holidays or sick pay in our case.

[Fuschia]

It's down to the minder what their deal is but if you only want Mondays it would be fairer for you to negotiate all bank holidays /5 rather than pay for all the Mondays!

There are 8 bh a year I think and 4 of them are fixed as Mondays

Suggest you pay 1/5 of the year's quota and 1/5 of whatever she charges as annual leave. 2-3 weeks?

[catgirl]

We pay half pay for holidays and nothing for sick (not that she's ever taken any time off sick). Had exactly the same with our previous childminder and thought that was pretty standard. Obviously we pay in full if we're away and she's working.

I'd say she's definitely trying it on with the bank holidays if you're only using her on Mondays. As Fuscia says if she's only working one day for you then she's only entitled to 1/5 of the bank holidays.

[RuthN]

I think that's pretty high. We pay approx the same for a nursery and although it's closed on bank holidays we never have to find alternative childcare for sickness, which would ultimately mean you are paying twice these days. I was under the impression that a childminder would be cheaper than nursery....

[AllyMcB]

I am a Childminder and I do not know any of my Childminding colleagues who charge more than ?50 per day.

Most Childminders I know take 4 or 5 weeks paid holiday but do not expect to be paid when they are sick.

With regards to bank holidays I would charge for those that fall on a Monday if that was the day I would normally care for a child. I do not know of any Childminders who do not charge for bank holidays whether they care for a child one day a week or full time.

[mouseysarah]

catgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd say she's definitely trying it on with the

> bank holidays if you're only using her on Mondays.

> As Fuscia says if she's only working one day for

> you then she's only entitled to 1/5 of the bank

> holidays.

Not really though - childminders are self employed, not employees, so they are entitled to set their own terms and conditions for prospective mindees and it's then up to you whether or not you think they are reasonable! I'm not disagreeing that it seems unfair that in the circumstances you describe you would end up paying for 4 Mondays when you can't use the care, but you have to weigh up the disadvantages in terms of price against how much you like her and decide whether or not it's the right care for you.

I agree that ?64 a day is at the upper end from my experience, although again different childminders set their own fees and especially if they know they work in an area with high demand and they rarely have a space then they can charge more. We currently pay ?45 a day in SE23, half pay for 4 weeks holiday per year.

If you're freelance then unfortunately you won't be able to claim childcare vouchers from your employer which would allow you up to ?243 a month from gross pay, saving a bit on the tax. If you are entitled to tax credits you may be eligible for some help towards childcare but that depends of course on total household income.

[rachel83]

It sounds quite expensive, we pay ?47 per day (inc meals) in SE22 and this is half-pay for holiday and no sick pay.

I remember when I was looking for a childminder, I was quoted a range of prices from ?45 to ?55 but never as much as you have been quoted, nor under those terms. I would perhaps look around and ask for recommendations from friends/forumites just so you feel better informed about prices.

[AnyaJoeli]

Thanks everyone it's really helpful hearing all this, I feel a bit at sea not really knowing what the norm is and whether it's negotiable. My gut says it's too expensive for me, particularly as my income is similarly dependent on how much I work, and I can't exactly charge my clients holiday pay!

[CocoC]

Sorry AnyaJoeli, but do you mind if I jump on this thread to ask these lovely ladies (and you!) a question? I've not had my baby yet but am already stressing about childcare (and I'm planning a whole year off!),specificially I'm wondering how one goes about finding a childminder and how far in advance I should start looking? If anyone has any words of wisdom I'd love to hear them x

[AnyaJoeli]

Well, (and congrats by the way, if you need some pilates come to me ;-) ) from my own personal experience...I've been waiting for a vacancy with this particular childminder for over a year now...which is another reason that I feel like I'm being silly nitpicking about her terms and conditions. If you go to the southwark council childcare page there's a downloadable list of all the childminders in the area, 48 pages' worth!

It's quite a daunting task so I think that personal recommendation goes a long way in terms of knowing where to start. If I had a fixed job to have gone back to I would have, in hindsight, looked around and put Maurice's name down when he was really little...but you just never feel like it's particularly pressing when they're so small, it seems ludicrous to think about it so far in advance! Also I'm freelance so while I was building up my business again post-baby I couldn't afford to outlay regular money without regular work lined up so it's sort of a catch 22 for me, and I've had a lovely childminder on a very ad hoc basis for a year now but it means as we have no contract etc she's let me down a few times and I've had to cancel classes...not that this is relevant to your query sorry!

From my experience, start putting out feelers as soon as you can. Ed forum is a great place to start, and the southwark council website. Also go to Facebook the se15 tea groups or nct group pages are often useful, that's how I found my current childminder serendipitously free when I suddenly got a huge amount of work and needed childcare urgently.

Anyway...that's my experience quite waffly sorry!

Anya x

[Smiler]

Worth trying to negotiate, often easier done over email, gives everyone time to think.

I guess you may pay more if only looking for one day a week, but that sounds steep.

On sick pay think it's standard that you don't pay for her sick days (or her children's if she has them) but pay for your child's.

On holidays, be careful, if it's down to her when she takes them and they are paid it's v tough on you! My CM takes unpaid holiday (she chooses, but must be in school holiday times) and we pay for any time off we take.

[Smiler]

Childcare is especially challenging for anyone not in a "9-5" permanent job, hope you find the right care soon!

[AnyaJoeli]

I think the sick pay is the one thing that really irks on me actually. If I'm sick, I would potentially lose income and that's sort of part and parcel of being freelance sadly...and trouble is therefore if she's sick, I would have to probably cancel classes at the last minute and double whammy lose money and pay for it! That's what kind of makes me feel like this is all a bit steep.

Now I'm just outright moaning. But on the flip side, she's great and Maurice seems to have really taken to her already.

I just don't know what to do...! Ergh

[AnyaJoeli]

I'm totally an idiot, she doesn't charge for her sick days I misread her t&c. So I'm just a numptie and it seems slightly more reasonable apart from the holidays and bank holidays. But I'm less irked now. Thanks for listening and for your advice!

[midivydale]

We pay ?65/day for our childminder, which personally I find very expensive.

[verds]

We used to pay 60 a day, which I think is pricey.

She was entitled to 5 weeks of paid holiday a year, plus bank hols and our holidays. I think that's standard, but I also think it's loads, so worth negotiating.

[maritap]

As an ofsted registered minder in East Dulwich I charge ?55 per day. The parents bring absolutely nothing but the child and a change of clothes. I provide nappies wipes fruit drinks snacks lunch and evening meals. I've always had brilliant parents with no complaints. I charge for hols but not when I'm sick. I don't charge for unexpected days off either although they are few and far between. I've been minding for 10yrs and have never had a problem with my policies and terms and conditions... I think it's pretty standard if you are contracted for Mondays then that day is paid for

[ludoscotts]

Hi I'm a childminder (recently registered) but years of experience working with children.

I wasn't sure where to start when it came to terms and conditions and what to charge so I've stuck with what we were told on the training course. They recommend either ?5 per hour( =?50 per day for 10 hours 8-6) but you would charge for your holiday. Or they said charge ?6 per hour and don't charge for you holiday. So I do the latter. ?6 per hour but no charge for my holidays. This includes all food, drinks, snacks and entrance into soft play sessions etc.

so if she is charging ?64 per day plus holiday then she is charging more than is recomended.

[AnyaJoeli]

Thanks that's really helpful....I feel like I need to ask her exactly why she's so much more expensive than every other childminder I've heard of! Ergh

[minder]

Hi Anya - you've waited a year for the space and in that time did you not know that the childminder charged this amount? Also the terms and conditions regarding her holiday pay and bank holidays?

Verds, for instance, I don't think your terms and conditions were/are standard as ?60 is way over the norm.

Also midivy. ?65?

[AnyaJoeli]

Yes that implies I'm a bit stupid. No I did know, it's only that others in my mums circle have expressed that it's a bit much so I thought I would see what the average accepted going rate is...which is helpful and not, in some ways, as it just makes me question why she charges so much, which I knew before and hadn't questioned so much. That's all. I don't earn a huge deal so I'm penny pinching I guess, and being self employed myself I am maybe questioning more than I might if I had the benefits of being an employee and not having irregular income as a factor to consider .

[rachel83]

Nobody likes to feel ripped off so it's right to question her price now that you have done your market research, although I doubt she will lower her price now so you'll have to change childminder if you want to pay less.

Is there any way you can find out if she charges the same amount to the other children she looks after?

[canela]

if she has a waiting list of a year then it seems unlikely she will lower her prices. if everyone stays with her despite this then maybe she really is worth it. but i think there are loads of excellent childminders in east dulwich who charge less....the choice is yours...