The true cost of sending a child to University?

[sillywoman]

Given that our eldest is now facing this as an imminent life option I was wondering whether those of you who are in it, and doing it can give me any sense of the true costs involved. We will not be able to contribute a penny toward this enterprise, and I am beginning to wonder whether this will mean that University will remain an impossible dream for her?

Is it possible to get a university education now with little or no financial help from your parents?

[vesti]

Quick answer is yes it's possible.

Sad answer is that our children are increasingly facing a two tier system with students who don't have significant financial support being unable to access those universities with higher living costs (eg cost of uni accommodation).

For our current child at uni rent - including utilities- both when in uni accommodation an when privately renting has been covered out of his loan. We give him what we can towards daily living expenses (varies but not a lot) and he has a part time job. Friends of his in other uni places are unable to cover halls, rent etc out of grant and even working themselves are having to rely on parents. Our just know they have to live with the debt of fees if they want to go uni.

It shouldn't have to be a huge consideration when your child is looking to make the right academic choice but do also look at local rents, consider living at home :-( ! (eldest changed uni cos was too quiet for him away from London and more options for work here and it didn't seem to affect his social life) an consider employment option for them whilst at uni (eg a self contained campus some distance from the nearest small city is going to be less likely to have lots of employment options).

Tip - if possible- We do try and maintain a sort of 'float'; grants are often not through before rent is due so we have a little stash that can be used for this and paid back later - has proved useful and necessary.

[Howl]

I'm sorry I can't help more on this thread...

I really feel for your daughter. I work in HE and I have massive sympathy for the massive life choices this generation are being faced with, so young.

Having said that...

I went to uni in London, worked p-t the whole way through (helps if you do humanities, yoi can balance your time better) and was lucky enough to have parents who 1. Let me live at home and 2. Facilitated a reasonably independent uni life for me whilst doing so (didn't mind me being out a lot, coming back when I wanted, bringing friends- helped that I was the youngest I guess).

London universities are incredible, world class, so she's in an excellent position.

So costs will depend on:

1. What subject she wants to do and, realistically, how much can she work. Med school - I think you can get bursaries for ??? No expert on that though. I think Oxford and Cambridge would have money for highly desirable students... But I don't know on what terms or whether this applies to other unis/ I'm sure others will know- sorry for being rubbish.

2. Can you establish a set up for her at home that is more independent than school?

[sillywoman]

Yes, we have discussed the possibility of a London Uni & living at home, but she is quite desperate to spread he wings and live outside London. I think she's looking at doing Politics (awaiting AS results before final decisions), and she doesn't want to go the Oxbridge route though would prefer Russell group if she can get a place (who wouldn't!). She seems resigned to the debt, but I am freaking out a bit because a) I was brought up to believe the only debt you should have is a mortgage, and b) I was speaking to some KCL students last week who have just moved into a flat in Lewisham, they were telling me that the rent they paid for halls was ?1k a month - A MONTH!!!! Holy cow, how on earth will she/we manage that.

[Howl]

I can honestly say I had the university experience anyone else would want. London is big enough to feel like youve got your independence- it was a very different place for me when I went to uni, from school etc.

I understand her viewpoint- completely valid- though I feel sad she's discounting it. I had a great experience where I was (UCL) both academically and socially.

Having said that, maybe look over the student loans set up again- (do they pay for your fees, how much can you borrow?) maybe the whole thing feels so awful because our generation wouldn't have got in that much debt... But if its structured precisely to be affordable....

[amydown]

How about looking at company-sponsored schemes if she has an idea of what career she might want to go into? For instance, our company has a school leaver programme whereby the company pays for univ fees as well as a salary. Obviously it's quite a big commitment but financially and job-prospects wise, it seems to make sense to many students. I think quite a few large organisations run similar schemes.

[sillywoman]

Thanks for your replies everyone, I might well encourage her to look at companies. She doesn't really have any sense of what she wants to do as yet, and I have a feeling will be a little resistant to 'tying herself down'. Sigh.

Both she and my eldest boy seem quite blase about the amount of debt they will be coming out with. They say "but we don't have to repay it until we can Mum - stop worrying", but I can remember feeling that 'tomorrow never comes' feeling myself at 16 or so, and of course it does come, but try explaining that to teenagers!

[monniemae]

Get her to look at cheaper places to live - I went to Manchester which had among the cheapest halls - ok some were ?125 a week (this was late 90s) but mine were ?25 a week. It showed! But my flatmates / friends were in the same boat. Also private rents in Manchester were among the cheapest nationally, it was very, very easy to get part time jobs, etc. Other options Newcastle, possibly Leeds / Sheffield / Liverpool I imagine?

And it's great they have that attitude to uni debt - the real tragedy is all the talented kids who won't even consider it because the thought of debt overwhelms them too much.

[Saffron]

I think you need to speak with a student loans advisor about how the dept is repaid, because the repayment schemes mean you don't start repaying until you start earning a certain amount. Then the repayment is graded to your salary, so your payments are less if you earn less. But obviously the less you have to payback all together, the better (speaking as a postdoc with huge student debt)!

Your daughter might also benefit from some career guidance, if she really wants independence she'd benefit from studying not just for a degree but for a profession.

[GinaG3]

Its difficult, but I know many of people who have done it even where they couldn't afford it. A lot of my friends have been through uni but undoubtably will be paying off debt for a long time, this situation is only worse now with the higher tuition fees. Its ridiculous. In my experience with friends aged from 19-23 in uni now I think its difficult to get by without some support from your parents.

My younger sister is currently travelling from Dorset to Oxford for uni 1 day a week whilst maintaining a job in Dorset. My dad is helping pay the fee (?1,700+ a quarter), she is paying the rest herself with wages (including petrol, car insurance). She has done this for the last year now its putting such a stress on her travelling back and forth for uni she is moving to oxford to live with my dad, another extra expense to my dad who is having to move house to accommodate her, something he wasn't planning.

My older sister was at uni in Oxford for 3 years, and lived in halls for 1 year and rented a house with friends for the other 2. She left uni 7 years ago and got through it with a student loan, which to my knowledge is still being paid off despite having a mortgage and working constantly since leaving. I don't think she got any help from my mum, but she may well of had help from her dad.

I've looked in to starting uni within London as I have a child but the cost for me outweighs the benefit especially as I need additional work to even enrol in the courses I want to take. My father would help me if I chose to do it, and has said he would pay my fees but were looking at a phenomenal amount of money to get into a highly competitive field with a starter job earning ?16,000pa - the same I could earn without a degree if I picked wisely.

I'd definitely talk to a student loans advisor, they can help lay everything out on the table for you to see.

[Carrie]

My twins started uni in September last year. They both chose the cheapest halls, as Monniemae says it does show, no ensuites but then such things never existed when I went to uni! Luckily we can afford to pay for their accommodation for them (they don't get any grant as our income is too high) and they use their loans for living expenses. They are both quite careful with their money and (as far as I know) have not ended the year with massive overdrafts! It sounds like your daughter will be eligible for a grant so that should cover the accommodation.

I think the thing to keep in mind is the cost of accommodation after the first year. one daughter is at Leeds and her rent is ?75 per week, the other at Sussex and hers is ?105 per week! So point her in a northward direction!

Make sure she knows how to cook proper, and cheap, meals, living on ready meals, pizza takeaway etc is very expensive.

The higher tuition fees actually end up being like an additional tax that they only have to pay once they earn more than ?21,000 at a rate of 9% on any income above that level and if they have not paid it off after 30 years the balance is written off. So although the amount of debt is frightening the repayments are not so bad in reality. To be honest I am not sure how the maintenance loan is paid off but it is not my debt.

I think that is what you need to keep in mind, it is not, and will not be, your debt. At no point will you be called upon to repay it. If your daughter wants to go to uni don't let your fear of debt put her off

[Townleygreen]

Cardiff and Swansea are also very reasonable to rent in, particularly when you move out of hall in year 2. You don't have to be in halls at all, of course.

Cardiff's a Russell Uni too.

[sillywoman]

Thanks everyone. Saffron I think you're right about career guidance, right now she doesn't really have much of a clue what direction she wants to go in after Uni, maybe a few pointers might help? I like the tip about pointing her north too. She's keen on Manchester, Leeds, Nottingham & York so all good there. Don't know about cardiff & Swansea Townleygreen, she hasn't mentioned them? Maybe they don't do the course she wants? I'll ask . . .

I know that she doesn't pay the debt back until she starts paid work, but it really does seem like such a huge amount. Her school has done some work on Uni finances with them and when I spoke to her yesterday she had calculated that a 3 year degree will incur her a total debt of ?55k, gulp. Personally I think it could be even higher depending on rent costs. I was sort of resigned to it until her brother (18 months younger) announced that he wanted to go too - I had him down for a job/apprenticeship. I think the thought of them both being there at the same time, building debt, is what has tipped me over the edge :D

Student loans advisor sounds like a plan, I will seek one out. Thankyou everyone. I feel woefully unprepared for all this. maybe the schools should run sessions for the parents, particularly in the light of the recent report about not enough state school kids getting into Russell Group Uni's - maybe it's cos their parents are freaking out like me?!

[tiddles]

Holland!!! that's where I'll be sending my daughter (if she wants to pursue a degree)

apparently sweden is good as well.

[sillywoman]

They don't teach the degree she wants to do in English, much to my disappointment. I checked it out & got all excited about Leiden. Ho-hum

[Ann]

Hi Sillywoman,

My daughter has just finished her first year at Cardiff ( French and Spanish), she has had the best year of her life!

I agree with others that Halls and rent are cheaper outside of London and the southeast. The absolute vast majority of her friends from a variety of sixth forms chose Uni's well away from London. As your daughter has said she wants to 'spread her wings', I understand her sentiments entirely.

We have two salaries in our family, so I have chosen to pay accommodation and help with living costs knowing that she has fairly hefty course fees to pay for. She is currently employed as an au pair in Barcelona as I type.

That said, she has friends who are entirely dependent on student loans and have coped.

My overall impression is that University education is worth having at all costs, the value of which could lead to a whole series of separate threads!

Encourage your daughter to apply, children are resilient she will cope. Even if I couldn't have supported my daughter in any way financially I would still 100%, nay 1000% choose her to be where she is.

[reren]

Has she thought about a year out first to work and earn money to help reduce some of the debt? Probably at 17 it seems like its more fun to just get into debt - but I do think it can be invaluable to hold down a job before you head off to university. It can really help focus you on the kind of thing you want to do after university - or the sort of thing you want to avoid and by the time you get to university you appreciate the freedom and the chance to spend time just focusing on the things you find interesting - think it helps make you more serious about what you are studying?

[Pugwash]

Eldest daughter just finished a degree in Occupational Therapy. She is 40 with 2 kids 9 and 14, her partner is self employed with an income which varies each week. Her tuition fees were paid by the NHS and she got a bursary (which was based on her partner's income which for the first year covered her child care fees).

Our 16 year old grandson wants to study history and has already approached us to letting him live with us if he went to a london University as does not want to live at home in Harlow He reckons he will get free lodging but we are going to charge him a a few quid and he will have to cook and pay for all his food - he might change his mind when he hears that!.

Youngest daughter did 4 years at Brighton Uni and was one of the last students to get a grant - we used to top it up by about ?200 a month. came out with debts around ?8.000.

[sillywoman]

reren we have discussed that with her, but currently she wants to do Uni and then maybe a gap year. I'm more of your frame of thought but, we'll see. . . after all - what do I know? ;)

Pugwash, Thanks for your potted family Uni history - that was lovely. Sadly her bent isn't anything that the NHS offer a degree in (I'm currently doing an NHS degree myself, complete with 4 kids at the grand old age of 46 so I do have a bit of an inside track on them - not that the knowledge is much use to us currently. But if anyone wants any inside info on Midwifery degrees I'm happy to share/discuss :) ).

Interestingly I went to on information evening tonight at her school and they recommended this website for more information about all things Uni http://university.which.co.uk/ Might be worth a look?

Am slowly resigning myself to the reality that most kids will be carrying a load of debt by the time they come out and there's not always a helluva lot that can be done about it. :( It does seem that in the coming years it will only be kids from wealthier families who can afford to go to Uni and study without the burden of debt. Sad state of affairs :(

[mima08]

Hi Sillywoman,

the prospect of all this debt is very scary... to help reducing the debt burden, the best thing my step-daughter did (aside from getting a great degree, I should say) is doing a TEFL course (teaching English as a foreign language)as an aside - it gave her the means to teach in language schools in her summer holidays and earn some serious money. Every summer she had a pretty well-paid job at a local language school, teaching foreign students English, and being very good with money, she financed a lot of her uni time with that money. The course itself is about ?500, but the investment was very much worth it.

And yes, definitely agree it is a very sad state of affairs, and will likely cost the UK dearly...

[canela]

Sorry to hijack thread - Sillywoman, could you recommend the particular course that your daughter did? A close family member is considering doing just that but there seem so many out there it is difficult to choose which one to go for.

[LondonMix]

I actually think that the only reason children from less well off families might be put off university is because of their parents fears rather than the reality of the debt. The OP's daughter is right not to be dreading the debt burden as the way it works, it will be very manageable for students post graduation. If her daughter earns an average salary over the course of her life of 35k for instance, on average only 3.6% of her daughter's salary per annum will go towards servicing her student debt. No matter how you look at it, that won't ever prevent anyone getting on in life or have any material impact on their overall well being. This weighed up against the opportunities university can open up means that for every child it should still be a no-brainer.