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Leaving for pastures new.. If you've already left I want to hear from you!


pastures new

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I'm planning on leaving ED for several reasons...


Primarily to improve the quality of life for my little one.


To live on the coast in Sussex

Upgrade to a house with a large / massive garden - From a 2 bed Victorian garden flat

Be near the family

Live in a very child friendly area with loads to offer for a wide range of ages

Good schools nearby with the option to pay for private ed - something I cant afford in ED

A couple of old mates are still there and have got in contact with a couple of school mates too - so not completely on my own.


I've lived here for 18 years and will be sad to go...


The two things that I keep wrangling over... Is it easy to get used to somewhere else that isn't particularly culturally diverse?


And my biggest concern... Racism. I've done my best to research the town and it's more diverse than I thought but still very white. I've read all the ofsted reports and have chosen the school that most welcomes cultural diversity. I've even stood outside the school twice to check out the parents / kids. I've used Mumsnet and Netmums to find mums of different heritages or with kids of mixed heritages - there are a few but not many. What I cant research is how my little one will find the move and how my little one will feel about it. My child is mixed race and only 2 years old - I cannot make a mistake.


Has anyone with mixed race kids moved out of ED and into Kent/Surrey/Sussex etc and if so how have your children found it?


I appreciate you may not want to reply on an open forum. I've created another alias just to write this post. Feel free to PM me. I'd really love to hear your experiences.


Thank you in advance.

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"And my biggest concern... Racism. I've done my best to research the town and it's more diverse than I thought but still very white. I've read all the ofsted reports and have chosen the school that most welcomes cultural diversity. I've even stood outside the school twice to check out the parents / kids. I've used Mumsnet and Netmums to find mums of different heritages or with kids of mixed heritages - there are a few but not many. What I cant research is how my little one will find the move and how my little one will feel about it. My child is mixed race and only 2 years old - I cannot make a mistake."


I could have written this post myself. Racism is my biggest worry (my mixed race son is 18 months) and the main reason (along thelack of diversity) why I am not going back to my native Sweden, despite the huge improvement to quality of life it would offer us as a family. I just cant afford to get it wrong - so I understand completely where you are coming from. I am sorry that I cant provide you with any experience, reassurance or wise words but I just wanted to say good luck!

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I'm not sure how helpful my view - based on close friend who moved out of London with mixed race children 20 years ago - is but ....she moved for better quality of life ,good schools and also because of concerns that her children would be more exposed to hard line ,aggressive ,urban culture if she stayed in London. Particularly that of negative content from small minority of black ( and white ) groups/"gangs " .

I don't know if I've explained that well .and apologise if I've offended people .


Anyway the quality of life element was achieved and her boys led and lead physical and active lives .


They did experience racism ,I think it's inevitable . I would guess that they benefited socially from being in a rather gentler environment than in London .


I would add that the worst racism they experienced seemed to come from the schools and individual teachers and I think this did detrimentally impact on their education .I think London (and other large urban towns ) schools are way more professional and experienced in this respect . My friend moved a long way from London ,south west ,quite Tory/rural .


I don't think it's possible to tick all the boxes ,a lot depends on individual circumstances . For what it's worth ,from your description - friends and family in area - if it were me ,I'd go for it and move .


Oh ,final thought - employment opportunities are limited where my friend moved to and teenagers etc may be forced to move away for work and parents find slim pickings in job market . I think London does offer more employment opportunities .

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I visited the Peak district last year (totally different area but bear with me!) and had a nice chat to a lady working on the till at a shop near Chatsworth. She said that she'd moved from Lewisham to give her kids (also mixed race) a better quality of life. She'd been really worried about racism too given it's not that diverse an area but her experience had been wholly positive, she said they had encountered less than in London and that it was the best decision she ever made.


Just thought it's a useful perspective to throw into the mix. Wonder if there are more general forums (so not necessarily about people with experiences in that specific area) for people who've made a similar move?

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That is a lovely story Belle, thanks for posting. I guess that we will never know unless we take the plunge and move. I hope (and believe) that UK is more advanced than for instance Sweden.


It is not only a concern of open racism of course but also the perspective our children will have as they grow up. We are so blessed here with the diversity. My fear and i guess also the fear of the OP would be that the child would feel isolated and lack the feeling of belonging and togetherness if brought up in a largely white area.

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One of my friends moved back to a very small village in Ireland 19 years ago with her 2 children the elder whom of was mixed race & it was possibly the best move she ever made. Her eldest who is now almost 22 is one of the nicest most mature boys I know. I remember when he was about 3 he said whilst looking at tv, you know there's children who look like me. However I don't think he has ever experienced racism he has a huge circle of friends and is very popular, maybe being a bit different was in his favour, but I think most of all it was the family support and a very secure base
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Being mixed race myself, growing up there was nothing for me more confusing than being half white/half black. Two cultures trying to mix can be difficult and hard. I found my way eventually but it had nothing to do with where I lived. Sorry if this is too honest.
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I grew up in a village in Surrey and my brother and I were the only non-white kids. This was in the 70s and we actually had a lovely childhood. We didn't experience any typical racism, just usual but infrequent comments that can be annoying such as "oh I bet you're used to the sun and aren't even hot". This is all just MY experience, my best friend had a dreadful time as a child growing up in similar circumstances but in Kent.


I think there are both positives and negatives to being non-white in a mainly white or truly mixed area:

Positives such as learning to mix in any group regardless of colour or culture and being colour blind. My nephew grew up in an area where there are no white people and he finds it very difficult to mix with people now he is out in the big wide world. It wouldn't matter but when you live somewhere like Europe or US you are better off being able to "mix". That goes for everybody in my opinion.

Negatives are the fact that you may always feel abit like the odd one out (this was rare but there were two of us) and when we moved to up north aged six a teacher was shocked that "the coloured children can write, oh and it's tiny neat writing aswell". We did hear a few times that we were more intelligent than we looked! (not sure what people with high IQs are supposed to look like!).


Bear in mind that there is racism/mild segregation everywhere and even in Dulwich you could find at secondary school certain people would or would not wish to be-friend your child simple because of his background. I went to secondary school in the heart of London and on the whole people stuck with "their own kind" (apart from my "Benneton ad" group of friends which is what one teacher called us).


Personally, I would always stay in a "mixed" area. I'm already fed up with my girls asking me to blowdry their hair straight every so often so it "blows in the wind like that girl's hair"...the requests would get even more frequent if we moved!


I think being mixed race is complex enough and a good thing to do if you moved would be to ensure you watched tv programmes and read books that reflect every ethnicity so that your child can grow up colour blind and not actually mind who he is around and can see racism for what it truly is...stupidity.

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I live in surrey, just within M25 it's nowhere near as multicultural as London but not all white/british either. Don't know about racism.


On more practical side of things the house, space, childcare, schools and so on are all great, but the commute (especially for two people working in London) is hideous!

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Foxhelp and Mens I think you make good points .


I think growing up as mixed race is a complex process wherever you are . The parents ( as any parent ) need to feel happy with their environs and support network .

Perhaps that's a key point - that the parent should be as happy and secure as any parent can be then there's a better chance of their child/ren dealing with whatever life throws at them .


So maybe try less to predict where best to bring up a child and concentrate on factors that will support you as a parent ?At least that's more of a known unknown .

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Not sure where on the Sussex coast you are going - but Brighton has become very diverse over the last 10 years or so. There is a great organisation called Mosaic for mixed race children and their parents. Google it and give them a call - I'm sure they can point in the direction of other support networks.


My mixed race cousins grew up in Brighton in the 70s and 80s and had a lovely childhood. Though I presume from your post that you are not going to Brighton as I'm sure you wouldn't be so concerned if that was the case?


I shall be hopefully be joining you with my two mixed-race kids over the next few years - so good luck!

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It's very tricky & should we ever move, this would be definitely at the top of our concerns.


I grew up in majority white areas (Surrey & Essex) and I experienced minimal racism but may be being so young meant I didn't perceive subtle racism as racism. However, my parents experienced more overt racism, e.g the local vicar would make a point of crossing the road whenever he saw my parents & completely ignored them when they attended another neighbour's funeral, although he greeted everyone else at the church door. A friend who is a doctor in Dorset often comes across racism in the form of back-handed compliments, such as 'you speak well for a coloured person' etc. On the flip side, my husband received racist comments when he went to watch a televised football match at the old CPT, so much so that he left at half-time as he felt it was beginning to escalate, something he has never done before.


I think what I am trying to say is that racism is still everywhere, subtle & overt, & sadly you won't be able to avoid it or completely protect your children from it (of course, some areas are worse than others). However, you will somehow find a way to teach your children how to handle it wherever you end up living. When they are young they may not differentiate it from other hurtful, non-racist playground stuff but it may affect you more. More important is the school's & individual teacher's attitudes, as this may impact on your children's education & influence other children & it sounds like you are looking into that. Perhaps you can contact some of the parents of non-white children to find out their experiences of the school and the community?


Sorry for all the waffle. The move sounds ideal in all other aspects & I hope you get positive feedback about the community.

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I agree. I think it's also about how comfortable the parents feel as the whole family should be able to feel part of the community. I would never consider moving out of London if my non-British partner would not feel comfortable in the new location. This does mean there are some places we might really think about before moving to and obviously London is great in this aspect. But nowhere is perfect and it's about overall quality of life too.
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I think for me it's the visibility factor. When you are in a predominantly white area, you stick out. You are visible and people notice you. Sometimes it's good but not every time. I prefer my family to blend in, life's easier that way.


Also you get asked the same old questions - 'where are you from?', 'Britain? Oh but where are you REALLY from?' etc etc

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That question never bothered me, although I think it does for a lot of people. I always took it be a question that showed an interest in the person and would often lead onto a conversation about the country, the people, the cuisine. Yes, I am British but my origins are clearly not from here (if you saw me), so to me it's a fair question in the context of a civilised conversation.
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I just find it boring, particularly as I look as if I come from abroad but have lived in Britain all my life. I feel that where my family happened to hail from is not the most interesting thing about me. The resulting conversation may be civilised but ends up rather desultory as my knowledge of my 'home country' is rather scant (have only visited it three times in the last 30 years...). I think it's quite different if you are more rooted in the other culture.


Incidentally these conversations almost always happen in a mono-cultural setting (ie white British). In the normal mixed ED setting I don't think I've been asked it once - and that's why I love living here!

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Thanks everyone for adding to this thread and for your time and thoughts.


Foxhelp and Mens - you both make some really good points. What do you think I could do as a white mum to make make it less complex for my son? We already have books with people from different places and cultures and watch some childrens programmes about other countries / places / people. I make food from around the world - not that he yet realises that!


Intexasatthe moment - You make a great point about the parent/s being happy and secure. As much as I love ED, my life has significantly changed.. I do not access all of the things I used to (resturants/bars/museums/theatre/music gigs, etc) and work my socks off to pay 5 childminders to look after my son and have done so since he was 3 months old. I also work 4 nights so others put my son to bed too.


Whilst in Sussex over the summer for 5 weeks my sons speech improved significantly, his bed time routine became relaxed and easy, he was much happier and loved being at nursery 2 x mornings a week. Now we're back in London and I'm back at work he has become angry - he hits a lot now - and his bedtime routine has become problematic again. If I move to Sussex I can afford to take a year out of work and be there for him whilst he's at this tender age, plus I'd be able to put him into nursery, which is not something I can afford to do here. I know job opportunities are not great down there and I cannot continue doing what I currently do as it's media work, but I'd happily get a job in a school or somewhere that would allow me to work around the school timetable. And finally, the lower salary wouldnt be a massive problem as I'd probably not have a mortgage.


Canela - Brighton is great, I know it well, but we will not be going there. A little further along the coast to Eastbourne. Thanks for the info about Mosaic - I'll give them a call. And if / when you do head south please get in touch, will be lovely to meet some peeps from back home :)


Srisky - I know what you mean - I spoke to a mate who grew up and still lives in Hastings and even now he still gets asked by the older generation "if he is down for the day from London" and find it hard to believe that he actually grew up there, even when he names all his schools. However the people his own age are fine. I do think you make a good point about the school, which is why I've chosen this specific primary school, they embrace cultural diversity and have an International school award. I really love your idea of asking the non white parents how they find it. Not sure how to contact them, other than stand outside the school again and ask them as they are coming out / going in...


Bornagain - I understand what you mean about the visibility factor.. Hence the reason for starting this post. I dont want my son to feel different. But at what cost... I have to rent out a room just to stay in ED and i'd rather not downsize and live in an area of SE London that I'm not that keen on / doesnt have great schools just for him to blend in. Is that selfish? I'm not sure he'd thank me for it later on?


Nowhere is perfect and all we do is try our best for our little ones. Thanks so much for everyones feedback and if you have any further thoughts please do add to the thread.

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Pastures new - the school sounds great! if the idea appeals, you could approach the school (headteacher, secretary) and ask them to put you in touch with families that would be willing to meet with you with the aim of easing the transition into a new school & community. This would also give your a children a familiar face to look out for in their new school.


Bornagain - thanks for explaining, always good to hear another view.

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I totally agree with Foxhelp's comments. I'm also mixed race and grew up in Germany, Nigeria, Finland and now in London. The fact that you're giving this some thought is already a sign that you'll be just fine.


Parents play an invaluable role in helping their children connect with their identity and feel a sense of belonging, regardless of where they live.


Racism is everywhere. What counts is how we as individuals deal with it and how much we let the colour of our skin define who we are and who we can be. That's where the right relationship and guidance from our parents counts the most, particularly when we're too young to make sense of it all.


I wish you and your family the best of luck, wherever you end up.



Foxhelp Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Being mixed race myself, growing up there was

> nothing for me more confusing than being half

> white/half black. Two cultures trying to mix can

> be difficult and hard. I found my way eventually

> but it had nothing to do with where I lived. Sorry

> if this is too honest.

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The value of family support close by shouldn't be underestimated! It does sound like things are hectic for you in ED!


If a commute to Brighton could be an option for jobs, think there's a big media/digital cluster there -"Brighton Fuse Project" research.

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