Moving abroad - where would you go?

[KattyKit]

My husband and I are considering moving abroad for a couple of years. Both our jobs are fairly portable, our children young and we would like to experience living somewhere else for a while. Jobwise it would probably have to be Austrailia, America or possibly Middle East. We are leaning towards America but can't decide which part. I am also keen on Austrialia but have never been.

Can any family roomers offer any advice? Where would you go?

K

[Tickle1978]

How exciting! Think I would choose U.S probably San Fran or New York state, it's near enough to home so people can afford to visit you and the cost of living is reasonable. Australia is very expensive to live - food, housing, child care and is a long way for people to visit. Other places I would consider for a two year stint, Hong Kong or Singapore, low tax, cheap child care options, ex pat community so you would meet people much more easily and there's so many countries nearby where you can go on long weekend trips, you could also visit Oz from there.

Best of luck in your adventure

[snowboarder]

Australia! Sydney is just amazing, a city by the sea, with mountains in easy reach - my absolute ideal....

My sister and her husband moved there 5 years ago, live in a lovely area and seem to have a great selection of things to do with their 3 year old, and easy commutes into the city. The only problem is trying to get them to come home now....:-) It is q expensive though in terms of cost of living I think...and it is such a long way...

As an ex ed resident she looks on here sometimes so she may pop up and tell you how good it is!

[Belle]

I know it's not on your list but I would love to live in Scandinavia! But mine and my husband's jobs rely on English speaking - and of course it's very much spoken there but I suspect we could only realistically work in the States/Oz. I would love to be wrong though!

IN terms of what you've mentioned - I have a few friends who live/are about to relocate to the states. What I've learned is that the holiday allowances in the States are really mean, which can be a problem in terms of trips home to see your folks. And it's hard to get much space (or your own washing machine, it seems?!) in NYC - although that would be my first choice if money were no object! I have friends who live in New Jersey and commute in to NYC, seems to be a popular family choice. I have other friends moving to washington DC but personally I wouldn't be drawn to that location. Canada would be amazing I think - I have a friend moving to Montreal for a year with her family, also envious of her! Personally my main issue with Oz would be the travelling time in terms of visiting home/family coming to visit. I would find it very hard to be so far from friends and family, even for a year.

[bluesuperted]

Lived in San Francisco for a year in 2005 - still honestly feel a bit heartbroken we don't live there anymore, just wonderful. Northern California, which has it all, on your doorstep: Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Route 1, close to LA/SoCal coast, Vegas, Monterey/Carmel all doable for weekend trips. SF and Oakland are wonderful cities. We lived there pre children but have friends who've since had kids and loads of great neighbourhoods, we went back with our one year old a few years ago and stayed in Alameda, fab. Foodie paradise, culture, people, outdoors, liberal politics, what more could you want?!

Reasons we don't live there are: job/visa opps, healthcare and holiday allowance. Apart from that (and the 10 hour flight), it really is my favourite place on earth!

[KattyKit]

Thanks for your replies.

Scandinavia sounds interesting but realistically I think the language barrier would be too great.

I guess the stereotypical ex-pat communities which are quite segregated puts me off Hong Kong etc - but this is based purely on stereotypes.

It is probably a toss up between the US & Oz. How expensive is Sydney? Our jobs would pay comparable amounts to here and the move isn't really financially motivated in that we aren't necessarily looking for more lifestyle bang for our buck just a different experience. The distance and expense of family and friends visiting are negatives.

Hadn't thought about US holiday allowances - good point. Washington DC would work well Jobwise but I have never been so obv find it had to have an opinion. We were also considering Chicago but cold winters puts me off!

Thanks.

[oimissus]

US work ethic is insane, the sole reason why my cousin and her husband ditched their plans to move there - they would barely have seen each other! Which would be doubly horrible with a young family. Don't think Oz is as bad.

[bluesuperted]

Work ethic on the West Coast (apart from my friends who are 'Googlers' or at Apple) was always fine. Much better than London even in marketing/branding jobs. People took lunch breaks, left work at 5 - I guess they were motivated to do so when they had country retreats in Napa or on the coast!! East Coast probably very different but my experience in SF, apart from the holiday allowance, was lifestyle over working all the hours possible.

[KattyKit]

Bluesuperted - San Fran sounds wonderful! What is the cost of living like?

[bluesuperted]

It used to be amazing in terms of rents (I paid ?650 a month for a one bed gorgeous flat in Nob Hill which is probably one of the smartest central neighbourhoods, amazing views) but now this would be MUCH more money, not sure what as most of my friends out there now own. They all bought in cool, but outer neighbourhoods like Bernal Heights, Cole Valley, Mission Dolores, Potrero Hill, Alameda, Rockridge (both Oakland/East Bay)... So those areas are pretty family friendly I think.

In terms of food prices etc when we holidayed there in 2011 we found it still very reasonable to have a great standard of living, think good quality groceries were more but eating out less, services (including luxury ones to me like mani/pedi, sending laundry out) were still really cheap. Gas is cheap, hire cars cheap, retail shopping is cheaper. Even though the locals complain about the weather, it is gorgeous there most of the time - as in blue skies at least - so in my dreams when I think about how we would live there with a family I think we'd spend loads of time doing free stuff outdoors plus neighbourhood festivals etc. I'm sure there is loads going on for families and Oakland Zoo, the piers, SFMOMA etc. On our recent trip we were there for over two weeks and we ran out of time for all the things we wanted to do.

I think most people who live in SF find it really gets under their skin, I literally cried for a week before we left, I sobbed through airport security! I've since spoken to other friends who lived there too at different times and we all agreed it is a special place that leaves a real imprint. I think for me part of the appeal was the absolute beauty of the city - obviously what was going on there was fab too - but aesthetically the bridges, the bay, the hills, the sky, the architecture, all stunning. There is also deprivation and mass homelessness which is harder to take (I hate the US approach to health, welfare and poverty, makes me very sad), but outside of that, for me being in the heart of such a liberal, vibrant and beautiful place was very good for the soul. This ad, released after I left, gives me mega goose bumps even now, cos it sums the city up:

Can you tell I'd move back in a heartbeat?!

[JBoylen]

We are moving back home to Boston, MA and I would have to agree that the holiday allowances are not as generous. However, many companies have a great work/life balance and working from home is much more acceptable.

I am from Boston so I am partial to it with the ocean, city, woods and mountains all within an hour or so from any location. However, I would also move to the West Coast if given the choice. My good friend moved just north of SF 6 years ago and simply loves it, the weather, the people, the work, everything.

Good luck, and if you ever consider Boston, let me know!

[Strawbs]

I am Australian and from Sydney so can vouch personally for that city. It is a fantastic place to raise children, it is expensive though but this really does depend on your earning capacity, if you can earn 'well' then it is totally fine as not outrageously expesive. We are just about to have number 2 and are in discussions in going back for a few years. You get a standard 20 days holiday a year.

Personally I would love to live in the US but my OH isnt keen unfortunately. I wanted to live in NY but with kids I think this is a bit difficult now. In the US i believe you only get 2 weeks holiday but then about 10 'personal days' which I think work the same as holiday but dont quote me on that. Apparently you only get 6w maternity leave as well! Someone from nyc told me this the other night and I was shocked.

good luck! x

[Tickle1978]

we just moved back from Sydney after living there 5 years and although we plan to go back as my little boy is half Australian and partner is also. We were worse off in Syd than in London because our salaries remained the same but cost of living was more, huggies nappies for example cost 34 dollars a box (around 22 GBP), here they can be picked up for 14 GBP or less, electricity was really expensive, we paid 270 dollars a quarter for a one bed unit that had no air con or heating

Although the pound has improved against the dollar, it is still expensive for people visiting and as mentioned previously it's a long way Esp with children to travel.

The weather is fab out there and it's a great lifestyle for children, camping, beaches, parks.

Personally though I don't think Syd offers anything more than the U.S except an extra 10 hours on the plane!

[zeban]

Am I missing something about the whole US thing as I thought without your job actually relocating you that it's pretty much impossible to just get up and move there unless you have citizenship/a green card?

Also in terms of SF, I have a friend who is always talking about the high costs of property there. He just posted an ad for a studio flat going in the building he rents in. It was just as much if not more than the price of a studio in a decent part of London (around ?800-900 pcm) so I'm afraid it's not at all cheap in SF anymore.

[KattyKit]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your replies! With regard to the US work wise we have already checked it out and because of our professions it appears that it would not be too problematic to get work visas. Austrailia would be easier re: work visa but we both have colleagues who have done a stint in the US so it appears not impposible...

K

[zeban]

Ah I see, that's great. Can I be mosey and ask what line of work you're in?

[enjoy]

Never thought about moving to canada?

Vancouver?

Such a great place, close to the mountains

and directly at by the sea.

[vch]

If you're not limited by visas, why not try both US & Oz while the kids are still young? We only have the option of the US and even then we would still probably end up in San Diego. Good luck with your decision and have a great adventure!

[KattyKit]

Thanks - this has been really helpful and has given us lots to consider.

Zeban - rather not say what we do precisely but I work within an unusual medical specialty.

Thanks all!

[Coach Beth]

Nova Scotia - if you love the outdoors, this is a beautiful place to live. Halifax is a lively, arty city with great harbour front and plenty to do with the whole family. Very easy to get out of the city into the countryside. Some of the best universities and medical insitutions are here including Dalhousie and IWK Children's Hospital. Downside - very cold and snowy in winter. However, if you like winter sports, you will not mind it so much! don't relocate to one of the more rural areas as it can be rather isolating and red-neck (I speak from experience!) but Halifax or one of the university towns like Wolfville would be great for a year out.

[Terresa]

Wow that is so exciting. Can?t offer advise, but wish we could do that, too ;-)

I think I?d try Australia.

[Grotty]

New Zealand...

[Beany]

As Snowboarder said, we moved to Sydney. Plus points are outdoor lifestyle so cheap fun activities for little ones, short commute, feels really safe (area dependent I guess), school places not a battle, weather (although don't expect sun every day like I did), caf?s, food, coffee :-)

Less positive would be the property prices, distance from family and friends, no grandparents to call on for babysitting, (and supermarkets!)

Depends what you're looking for I guess - this is certainly an easy place to be, and not a culture shock - and very difficult to leave! However seeing the folks only once every couple of years is tough hence why we're planning on heading back. I guess if you're only thinking of a short term adventure that might not be a problem.

Personally I would love to try a stint in the US next - but couldn't bear the stingy annual leave!

Good luck on making your exciting decision!

[LouiseC]

If you work for a British or European company in the US, you generally get the same holiday allowance as over here.

[DaveR]

I'd also think seriously about Vancouver - it's got the West Coast vibe, plus very diverse and beautiful surroundings.