Newborn: If he's not eating or sleeping he's crying. We're losing the plot quickly!!

[EG]

Hello My wife and I have just added a beautiful little boy to the neighbourhood, but unfortunately as beautiful as we may think he is and as happy as we are to have him, he seems to be having some serious trouble just "existing" in the world at the moment. The main issue is that he has begun to unconsolably scream and cry for hours at a time throughout the day and night. If he is not eating or sleeping (which he almost never does) he is crying. He is only three weeks old and I appreciate that everything around him, and all the sensations both internally and externally are probably pretty intense at this stage, however three weeks of intense sleep deprivation has broken us both down and we are finding our coping abilities are beginning to crumble.

I suppose our question is "Is this normal?" I know all babies are different and all babies cry or are fussy, don't sleep etc etc. But when does screaming and crying become something to be concerned about? We tried very hard to study up and become as informed as we possibly could regarding what was to come, developmental stages, fourth trimester, calming techniques (Dr. Karp, slings) etc, but nothing has prepared us for the intensity of our little man's constant upset. It is definitely affecting our ability to bond with him as we would like to because we rarely have the opportunity to see a calm contented baby.

We are tired of the well intentioned "welcome to parenthood" comments from friends and the like and would love to at least hear that we are not the only people that have gone through this. Everyone keeps saying "it will all get better, I promise", but when? The magic number that keeps coming up is three months, does that mean we have to endure three months of guantanamo levels of sleep deprivation before it gets better? I literally broke down in tears at the thought of not being able to bond with this amazing little boy who we wanted so badly because of this issue.

He was given a full clean bill of health and is putting on weight, so as far as anyone can tell he is as healthy as can be. Of course there are the million and one worse case scenarios that go through our heads that he has some horrible disease, is neuro A-typical or worst of all we have done something to cause all of this chaos for this little guy. My gut feeling is that he's only three weeks old and that even though it's pretty intense at the moment, what we're dealing with is hard but normal and it will indeed get better.

We would really appreciate hearing any of your similar experiences and or solutions you may have found along the way. I'm not sure there is an answer to our questions, Nevertheless a little help and support can go a long way.

[Sunlover00]

I feel for you - a unsettled baby is bad enough but the feeling of helplessness is even worse! My daughter used to cry for 4-5 hrs but it usually happened at same time of day. Now I realised it was probably down to not getting enough sleep during the day so was absolutely shattered at end of day. Presume you have tried swaddling and white noise to help settle bb? Also found introducing a comforter helped my daughter settle herself and when she leant to suck her own fingers this was also a turning point. We attended a sleep seminar from Nicola at sleep solutions and got some tips on what to expect from newborn sleep cycles - if you do a search you might find she still runs these seminars. I think I may have some of the notes still so happy to email them to you also.

[????]

It's not standard parenthood/babies in general nor is it your fault.... some babies do this 'Colic' or whatever it get labelled thing. Our first was like this fine for 2-3 weeks and the BOOM- just endless walks seemed to stop it between meals and that was almost it.Luckily i wasn't working at the time so we just went out everyday walking for miles in all weather - we just had to aim for the 2-3 months and suddenly it went almost overnight on 2 1/2 months. Just do not blame it on your selves, some babies just do this - and it's not like that for most (neither of our other two were remotely like her - and we treated them no other way.) and a good friend of mine told me that they breezed their first and thought they's really sussed out babies etc only for their second to do this! It's tough but the patronising although well meaning advice from others whose babies didn't or aren't doing this gets very frustrating. Y=They are just lucky with their baby not doing anything better. It's tough but do your best and it'll pass - sorry I can't be more 'positive' , you may have this for another 10 weeks or so but it will go and you'll forget (a bit!)..we had two more! My thoughts are really with you and do try various things but we never found much that worked : ). Good luck - PM me if you want as fellow dad.

[hellosailor]

You poor things, sleep deprivation is so difficult and heightens everything. But please please don't think for a moment that you have done anything to cause the crying - a LOT of babies are like this at this age. We used to say of both our kids in their first few weeks 'If they're awake, they're crying.' I remember my partner once turning to me a few weeks after having our first and saying 'maybe some babies are just really, really unhappy and she'll always be like this.' It definitely affected bonding because it's hard to get to know someone who is screaming at top volume! But, please don't worry, however you feel at the moment is not indicative of how you will feel in the future, so often people have perfectly easy babies who it takes them a while to bond with properly, I don't know many people who were hit by a feeling of unconditional love in fact, a lot of people describe more of a slow burn, whatever the temperament of the baby is, it's so normal. Have you noticed any pattern to the crying? Does it get worse after feeding or is it totally random? Are you managing to get a hearty burp out of him after a feed? Is it mostly in the evening, which is a classic screamy time for lots of babies (our first screamed like a power drill between the hours of about 5pm and 10pm for several weeks, every night, and then it stopped, as suddenly as it had started.)

Are you swaddling? (tightly with a stretchy swaddle not just loosely wrapping) It can make a big difference to sleep. I know it isn't very helpful when people assure you it will pass, but it really, really, really will, tho possibly not for a few weeks. Is he getting very little sleep by day? He could be screaming with over tiredness if so. But wind is often the culprit which is why I ask about burping? xx

[stress_head]

Hey, I am so sorry to hear about your troubles. I will bump an old thread on reflux which may help you?

X

[ladyruskin]

Hello. Firstly congratulations on the birth of your son. Mine was born three years ago and I have largely managed to forget the early days of his arrival due to the generally misery. Three years down the line I can whole heartedly say it does get better but I know that will seem like a lifetime away from right now.

Have you discussed your difficulties with your health visitor and/or GP? They may be able to shed some light on possible causes. There are countless things that could be causing him to be so upset. Some of them may be easy to solve but I don't want to speculate as I am in no way an expert.

My son had tongue tie which caused countless problems (although none of them with his weight etc so took until 12 weeks to be addressed).

Have you thought of taking him to an osteopath? There are some people who swear by them with new borns as they think that the trauma of birth and being cramped in utero for the last few weeks of pregnancy can cause all manner of problems. I took our son to the centre in Wandsworth and whilst I'm not sure that it specifically did anything, they crying subsided.

I'm not sure if I've helped you at all but I did want to say that it will get better.

[EG]

It's amazing that even though you know your not alone in a situation, the feeling of being at sea in a rowboat can be overwhelming. So thank you all for your replies, they sincerely help.

Yep, Swaddling and Dr. Karp's 5 S's have been the only things that have worked regarding calming him and getting him to sleep, eventually. It takes forever but it works, until he wakes himself up in some sort of existential anguish and hour or so later, when we start the process over again. If you haven't heard of Dr. Karp's - Happiest baby on the block, do yourselves a favour and check it out it's a life saver in the first degree.

Most of his crying was happening at night however in the last few days he stopped sleeping as much during the day and replaced it with crying. The only thing that keeps him from crying at this point is to be on the breast indefinitely, and needless to say my wife is completely worn to the bone now.

[Convex]

You poor things.

Does he like the sling and / or the pram?

One thing that always stuck with me is that babies don't really form habits until around 3 months. So do whatever it takes to get through for now. Would it be worth getting some help in? Can you take it in shifts to ensure you get a few hours sleep each?

Will he take a dummy? (Just in reference to the constant feeding)

The other thing is they really do change quickly so you might not have until 3 months to wait for an improvement.

And do see your gp. Ask to see someone who does newborn checks.

[hellosailor]

And he's bringing up wind ok after a feed?

Does he draw his legs up into his chest as if in discomfort?

When he cries at night does feeding soothe him?

[HellsBellsBrown]

I would second the comment from stress-head about reflux. My second baby suffered from silent reflux and I have always said that he seemed like he just didn't want to be here. The screaming was agonising and was not the crying of a baby who was hungry or tired or unsettled. One thing that also really pointed to reflux was the fact that he didn't enjoy feeding (bf) and didn't get that sleepy milky heaven but just screamed more, he also hated lying down, being in his car seat, actually everything made him scream! We were finally referred to see a paediatrician at Kings for a reflux diagnosis and meds. In addition I thought that he wasn't a "burpy" baby until I was taught some very good winding techniques by a midwife and I think working those burps out of him after every feed also helped a lot.

It took him until 6 months old before he really settled down. At 12 months old he is now the happiest, most chilled out baby possible and the nightmare of those first 6 months has faded into history. Unfortunately though knowing that it will improve over time doesn't help whilst in the middle of it (I actually wanted to hit everyone who told me that babies generally grow out of reflux by 10 months old). My advice is keep speaking to your GP/midwife about it, get referred if possible (be demanding) and grit your teeth.

[Strawbs]

First of all I really feel for you and second of all go with your gut instinct when it comes to your children. I have two children and the first one cried because of Reflux and a dairy allergy which was quickly sorted with putting him on meds and prescription milk then it was just standard colic where he screamed from 4-8 daily, the second also suffers from reflux and allergis and once medicated his screaming went ballistic and he screamed around the clock unless eating or sleeping for 11 weeks and I am not ashamed to say pushed me down the pnd road. I figured out it was one of the medications that the gp had been increasing the more he screamed so I went with my gut and stopped it and he hasn't screamed since.

Keep taking him back to th docs (change to a diff surgery if need be - the gardens are fantastic with reflux babies), hire some mothers help or pull in family if you have any - I had someone come daily at 5pm to just hold the baby and jiggle him to sleep to give me and toddler Strawbs a break and as convex says there is nothing in the first three months that can't be undone so literally just do what you can to survive. Slings normally help, I have an ergo carrier if you want to borrow it and give it a try, I carried baby Strawbs for 12 hours a day for those 11 weeks and it was great and my back survived (just!).

I'm not suggesting it's reflux or an allergy as I'm not a doc but I've had experience with both with two kids no so thought I'd put it out there.

If you need any help do shout as I've been there and it's bloody awful and I really do know how you feel.

X

[acb2013]

Congratulations to you both. And sorry to hear it's so tough at the moment, really feel for you. I think what you describe as your 'gut instinct' is spot on. The early days are so hard and I don't think anything can prepare you for the effects of sleep deprivation and then when your baby cries a lot it's a complete shock. It knocks you for six and intensifies the wave of emotions, including the guilt that you're feeling. Lots of really helpful suggestions already and I would also add: that if you're not already doing so, try to split shifts between you especially at night so you take it in turns to at least each try to get some sleep; if you have any supportive family or friends who could pop over and watch over your son whilst you grab a nap then don't be afraid to ask or take up the offer (I remember a friend doing that with our eldest daughter and I literally ran to my bed and was out cold instantly until the next feed!); infacol after feeds to help with wind; and do keep seeking support from health professionals, it's what they are there for. Hang in there and try to take each day at a time.

[Clare C]

Oh I really hope his crying settles down soon. The lack of sleep is so tough to deal with, our little boy went through a phase at about 6 weeks where he cried constantly from around 4pm but it suddenly got better after a month or so.

I would hugely recommend the Osteopathic Centre for Children in Wandsworth. They specialise in mums and babies and I found them really helpful for both me and my son and booked a double appointment so we were both seen together. http://occ.uk.com/

If it's reflux/wind you might find some help at one of the milk spots. I came across a lady at one of the milk spots whose baby had awful wind and cried pretty much all day who was being helped by a midwife called Linda...

http://www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/resources/patient-information/maternity/support-breastfeeding-lambeth-southwark.pdf

[par_avion]

Hello all, thanks for your replies. I'm the mom in all this with a few more details. Within about two weeks after birth he had begun to settle, would be awake and not screaming, looking around, etc. Then, suddenly, he went back to being a screamy baby a lot of the time. From 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds flat, we say. He will begin screaming from waking up, directly after unlatching, during feeds, we just can't figure out what is happening and really think it's a combination of things.

We use infacol, and when I can remember to give it before every feed it seems to help. He has a lot of gas and also hiccups - all the time, it seems! I've figured out that if he's fussy from the start of the feed it's probably gas, and if he's fussy during the feed after a decent amount of time, I should switch him to the other breast. He eats well but slowly. He seems to have an active period of feeding of about 20-35 minutes but will scream if I take him off after that and will then stay on the breast for sometimes hours at a time. He is still pulling milk as I always see milk in his mouth when I have to relatch or try to take him off.

He does not have the classic symptoms of GERD, such as projectile vomiting. The ones he does have are occasional choking during feeds (which I have heard as a symptom of overproduction), sounding wheezy during feeds, fussiness during/after feeds and spitting up hours after feeding.

Has anyone had luck asking after this with the GPs at DMC? I'm not too fond of them in general but maybe I've been to the wrong people there. Now that I can ask for specific GPs it might be helpful to know which ones other people have had luck with.

[shaunag]

There is nothing worse than your own baby bawling and not being able to settle them. It is really hard. IMO they don't cry for nothing. As a few people have said,wind is often a culprit. It really hurts them. So if you have any close friends or relatives that had tricky babies ask them to come and help of they can(watch what you are doing and show you any and all tricks they have for winding). If you can eliminate wind as a cause, it's likely to be reflux and/or An allergy in which case you need help. Constant feeding is a symptom of reflux as it helps soothe if it's burning. Again repeating the above but ask your gp to refer you to see a paediatrician at kings and don't understate how this is affecting you as a family as you need to get this sorted ASAP-it is no way to live. My daughters dairy allergy went Undiagnosed for 3 months and while she was not a screamer I was really in a bad way watching her throw her guts up at such a young age. The specialists are brilliant and you will be able to get some support to help make your little one more settled. Tongue tie is another possibility (gaining weight doesn't necessarily mean baby is getting as much as they would want, and could still be frustrated), so maybe go along to one of the breast feeding caf?s where there are people that can help rule that out/in as a cause. At least if you can take some steps toward a resolution it might help you feel better and you may even crack it with lo. Best of luck. I really feel for you...(and don't worry the love will come, and then you'll wonder how you can love someone as much as you love your baby).

[FlorenceRedbird]

I had an experience almost exactly like Ladyruskin... It would be well worth getting him checked (by a proper expert) for tongue tie. All the things you describe sound very familiar.

I hope things get better for you very very soon.

Edited to add - as Shaunag said, Peckham Breastfeeding Cafe is a really good place to start (if you haven't been already).

[hellosailor]

The screaming even during feeds also makes me wonder about reflux as others have - both mine had it.

Dr.Prakrabhan at DMC is a good GP to see for infant reflux. It can take months to get referred for an apt at Kings for infant reflux tho. It is expensive but for about ?150 (if I remember correctly) you can see, within a matter of days, the same consultant privately at Kings that you have to wait months to see on the NHS, and therefore get medication quickly. You can then transfer to his NHS list for future appointments so you don't have to keep paying privately. He is called Dr. Babu Vadamalayan.

It could well be reflux but it's also easy to assume something is wrong when they're colicky, so it could be nothing to do with reflux, frustrating I know..

Keep using infacol before all feeds as the effect is cumulative for wind by the way so you need to use it every time.

[stress_head]

Hi,

Lack of projectile vomitting does not exclude reflux, in fact silent reflux (silly name - who has ever heard of a silent reflux baby!?) can often be as painful for babies.

The gulping and fussyness could well be symptoms, does he grunt in his sleep?

I was with the dmc and as always it was a mixed bag. In the end I went to see a consultant at Kings privately and once done, went back to dmc from there. I think the consultant details are on the other reflux thread.

Just to echo the others to do what you can to look after yourselves and eachother. Sleeping in shifts (we did 4hrs each in the early days). Rope in any help bought, family or friends and do not worry about forming bad habits. Just do what you can to get through. Which you will. I read through the other reflux thread earlier and shudder at the memory, it was so so hard. Try to hold on to something though: this is not what the rest of your life will be like, this is not an accurate reflection of parenthood. This is not your new normal forever.

The love and bond will come, after the exhaustion has subsided somewhat. This too is normal and I just wish someone had told me that.

Feel free to PM either of you if you want a "chat" or some ideas on how to get around the dmc /private care circus.

Hang in there xx

Cross posted with hellosailor who was amazingly supportive to me during our reflux hell!

[Strawbs]

I'd get him checked for silent reflux, my second has silent and I've been told it's worse than non silent.

If you don't get on at DMc then switch to the gardens ASAP and see dr tran, she is brilliant with reflux babies but is leaving in nov for 6m so don't leave it too long.

Are his hiccups wet?

Use infacol as much as you can including on his dummy. Dummies help reflux babies as the saliva produced helps with the acid.

Again I can only speak from the experience of my own two but if it is reflux then it can be sorted.

X

[happymummy]

I really feel for you guys. My first born suffered intense bouts of crying in the evening and generally seemed unsettled / grumpy. We had a big turnaround at 9/10 weeks when she turned into the most delightful happy baby. My point is just that these difficult early days don't indicate the nature/personality of your child or reflect your own parenting skills. Glad you've discovered Dr Karp as it seems to be offering some relief. He does say crying peaks at 6 weeks. If you did want any further support along these lines a lady called Viv Rogan (baby calmer) does sessions with parents and is certified to offer Happiest Baby sessions in the UK. It may be worth a try, if there are any elements of the techniques you feel you could do with having hands on help with. Plus she has a maternity background and also works as a Doula, so could offer some useful support. I also found sessions with the cranial osteopath helped too.

[Pickle]

I haven't had time to read all of the replies you have had, but I would suggest getting baby checked for tongue tie. My first born (now 7.5) was similar in a lot of his behaviours, particularly feeding for hours on end, crying straight after (sometimes during) feeds, and seeming generally unhappy.

It might not be the problem for your little one, but it's definitely worth having checked.

Ours was not diagnosed until my son was nearly 8 weeks old, despite him having been checked by a number of health professionals (including paediatricians at Kings). It was a student midwife that picked it up in the end... so do push for second opinions!

[alieh]

It does sound like there could be some underlying issue (reflux, allergy, tongue tie), and all of the posts above should help you work through the potential options.

Just to say that some of these behaviours - though yours sounds extreme! - can be signs of overtiredness/overstimulation. Which I'm sure you know and are trying 1001 ways to get him to sleep! Do you try to physically put him down once he falls asleep (i.e. in moses basket)? If so, you might have better luck keeping him asleep if you hold him the whole time. Two of mine were definitely velcro babies at this age. If I ever tried to put them down they would wake straight away, if I continued to hold them they would often sleep 2-3 hours until the next feed, day and night. In the day I would wear them in a sling constantly and at night I basically slept with them on my chest, with my elbows propped up. Please note you need to do your own research about safe co-sleeping and make your own judgement about what feels safe for you!

A dummy might also help. My approach at this age is to try to get them to have a decent feed - keep them awake, tickle, undress, etc. until they've been actively drinking for a good while, 30 mins or so. Then instantly swaddle, rock, sling, dummy, etc. and try to keep asleep any way any how until 3 hours after the last feed started. Then wake if still asleep and feed again. Day and night. Two of my three were great on this programme and one was not playing ball quite as much and behaved more like you describe above. But we got into a rhythm even with him at around 5 weeks where he was more settled/sleeping between feeds. All bets were off between 5 pm and 11 pm for all of them though until about 10 weeks old.

I also had good success cutting dairy out of my diet while breastfeeding.

Good luck. You couldn't pay me any money to go back to the newborn stage, especially with our first when we had no idea what the heck was going on!

[Mathilda]

My second baby was like this, completely different to my first and a shock to the system! She cried for hours every day and I was pacing the floor with her until she would finally fall asleep around midnight. I kept trying to give her formula as was convinced she must be hungry - she wasn't, was putting on weight fine with BF. I co-slept with her in the crook of my arm and she did sleep well once asleep. Infacol and gripe water helped a bit, lots of walks in the buggy or sling were essential. It did get loads better around the 3 month mark which seemed like ages at the time and I was literally counting down the days. There is a book by Sheila Kitzinger called Why Babies Cry which I found quite helpful. Good luck and I hope things get better for you soon.

[susyp]

My daughter was like this and I felt like you- parenthood was hell! Why did no one tell me! As soon as I tried her on a bottle of formula she vomited etc and had diarrhoea and it was a clear milk allergy- I would try her on formula if you haven't already- or just get her tested for a range of allergies-'it's less intense in breast milk but they still react- I gave up dairy but was no better only way was to get prescription neonate milk- worth getting an allergy screen done privately . Sounds from these answers its an allergy or tongue tie perhaps- worth exploring anyway.

Susyp x

[Goodliz]

Sounds just like my first son was. Loads of feeding, a bit of sleeping and so much crying. Nightmare! Got better for him properly at 12 weeks but it was a gradual process leading up to that time. So the crying got less and less as the weeks went by and by 12 weeks he was so much more settled. He is 10 years old now so I can't remember the exact ins and outs but much as I love him I can remember thinking:

'oh my god we can't put him back!'

and

'we are going to have to let his future girlfriends know he needs to be swaddled before he falls asleep!'

I wore holes in my shoes the miles I used to walk just to get him to sleep. In the end I did a very lightweight interpretation of Gina Ford. I'd put him in the pram for a walk at the designated nap times as i couldn't bear the thought of hearing him cry in the cot. It worked for him and he then became a great sleeper once out of that initial awful period. I think he was just knackered and had colic too.

Not much help I know but just wanted to chip in to say I know how you feel, you sound very normal and it is awful but it does get better. Unfortunately no one can say exactly when. You never know it could be tomorrow or next week. Good luck and you and your partner are going to feel soooo much better when your baby gets settled. Trust your gut feeling as a parent, he is only 3 weeks old. Sounds like you are both very caring and doing a great job.