Immunisation booster for teenagers

[wonderwoman]

Hi all just wanted to gather some thoughts about immunisation booster for teenagers. I received a letter from my sons school with a consent form. I'm not sure about whether to agree or not. It also states that if we don't consent then the pupil will be given the information and asked whether they consent to having it done or not. Over the years there have been a lot of discussions regarding immunisation and whether or not to have it done. I know that when he was a baby there were huge concerns and backlash with the MMR vaccine as well. Would be good to get some views from local parents about this thanks...

[Saffron]

http://tallguywrites.livejournal.com/148012.html

[JL Dulwich]

In the UK, a child has to be 16 or older to consent to their own medical treatment.

I'd suggest doing your own research about the specific vaccination your school is offering, then, depending on your child's age, discuss your decision and the reason behind it with your child.

Vaccinations tend to be an emotive issue, but neither you nor your child should be pressured into any sort of medical treatment. Don't feel guilty or embarrassed to take the time to look into and carefully consider what is right for your child.

If you're looking for further information, one company my midwife told me about is www.babyjabs.co.uk. There's some high-level info on the website, but I found the book more useful. (I noticed a few copies available in Dulwich library, so you don't have to buy one, unless you want to keep it for reference.)

[redjam]

Are people STILL bringing up 'concerns' about the MMR jab??? Really???! I'm lost for words...

[TE44]

Redjam I believe there are still concerns, a lawsuit from 2010 is still going through legal prosedures.

https://iftbqp.com/bookmark/julie-and-boys-cdc-merck-vaccines-0

Sorry about link but very difficult to get info on this case except on sites that are associated with "conspiracies".

I think Merck was given dates to hand information in, the last date was April this year, i can't remember day and hoping it will be easier available to public.

Anyone interested in this story of the two former merck virologists who whistleblowed can read this story on other sights, I linked this as i'ts the latest I can find. I'm lost for words as well, when accusations are made regarding the safety of our children and 8 years later it is still going through the judicial system, with no sign of any action being taken. Some people do have concerns, this may be hard for people to understand

who don't but understandable. I cannot understand how this case has taken so long.

[flocker spotter]

This is a booster. If your child had the pre-school immunisations, it makes sense to have it again.

If you did not get your child immunised before, I would wonder how useful the booster is.

[JRJ]

Hi JL Dulwich

It isn't entirely true that you have to be 16 to legally consent to treatment. At 16 capacity to consent becomes presumed, unless there is good reason to doubt it. And below 16 I don't think children can refuse treatment that is felt (by doctors and parents) to be in their best interests.

However, children below that can consent for things (even if parents disagree) if they are jusdged to be 'Gillick competent'. This stems from a case where an underage girl sought contraception, and essentially it involves a healthcare professional making a decision on whether the individual child is competent to make judge for themselves whether they want to consent to a specific thing or not. It is dependent on the child and the medication / procedure / whatever, and a much higher bar of understanding benefits v risks would be required for something invasive (e.g. a procedure or medication) compared to something for observation (e.g. having blood pressure taken).

I also can't quite believe the MMR debate is ongoing. Andrew Wakefield has been entirely discredited. Measles kills. Mumps causes male infertility. Rubella causes congenital abnormalities. None of them are nice.

[redjam]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Redjam I believe there are still concerns, a

> lawsuit from 2010 is still going through legal

> prosedures.

>

> https://iftbqp.com/bookmark/julie-and-boys-cdc-mer

> ck-vaccines-0

>

> Sorry about link but very difficult to get info on

> this case except on sites that are associated with

> "conspiracies".

>

I think you've just skewered your own argument there - the only places you will still see these kinds of views persisting are in the weird outer fringes of the internet populated by conspiracy theorists.

Me, I'll take my information from more reliable sources, such as the NHS or the NICE websites, but each to their own.

[TE44]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/gerganakoleva/2012/06/27/merck-whistleblower-suit-a-boon-to-anti-vaccination-advocates-though-it-stresses-importance-of-vaccines/amp/

Redjam, there is plenty of sites not regarded as "conspiracy sites" reported this, maybe if you had quoted my whole post , where i explained i linked to the site because it was the only site i could find with recent news. Sorry if i was unclear. This case has been

backed by US government. This info is available on many sites. Although I can't say It was news on NHS or Nice.

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/merck-mumps-motions-whistleblowers-the-actual-story/#The_decision_on_the_Motion_to_Dismiss

Edited to add this other link from another perceptiin.

I originally responded to redjams comment, sorry for going off topic.

[JRJ]

Hi TE44,

I'm sure you know this but in case anyone was just skim reading the links and didn't get the gist, the crux of the case that you are referring to is not about the MMR being risky, but about particular batches of MMR vaccinations produced by a single supplier many years ago allegedly being less effective at protecting against mumps than the manufacturer claimed.

Someone whistleblew. No legal case has ever been won.

I am not an uncritical fan of Big Pharma, and have no idea of the truth of this case. But it is definitely fair to highlight that even if it were proven it wouldn't undermine the case for MMR vaccination, but just reiterate how important that the right disease strains are selected, and that Merck shouldn't lie. You can get non-Merck MMRs in the UK if you are that concerned about it.

[TE44]

Hi JRL, yes it is fair to look at the whole pictures. I have a problem with disconnecting fraud and lies, which

are common in this industry, the constant battle for

transparency whilst the whole for and against situation has been encouraged, i believe to try and simplify the choices ( in some countries) whilst cases like this do not come to light for years, and anyone questioning why, on a parent level, is grouped into for or against, a much bigger picture in the media than some of the atrocities these companies have been involved in.

I think the advice above, do your own research.

As a mother who has decided against vaccinations, I feel unless geniunely wanting to understand others opinions and choices discussion are dominated with being right or wrong. Questions I would like to see answered do not lie with the parents they lie with the

Companies and the systems connected.

[buggie]

The OP doesn?t name the jab - unsure how it?s been assumed it?s MMR (which unless there?d been a measles outbreak would be unlikely).

If it?s DTP which includes tetanus then I would advise taking it - no amount of herd immunity can protect against tetanus and having been an A&E nurse for 12yrs know it would cause a lot of stress to patients once they had an open tetanus prone wound realising they didn?t have adequate protection.

[TE44]

The op does not say what vaccine Buggie, and its went off topic.

I respect your work, concerns and beliefs that through vaccine the tetanus is now in single figures yarly (last time I looked).

What has not been reported as widely is the AgriQ-Quest ltd where investigation is going on to hoe and who was to blame for the situation in Kenya. How long, if ever we will have to wait for the truth in this case, i have no idea.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standardmedia.co.ke/mobile/amp/article/2001254675/tetanus-vaccine-row-returns-to-haunt-kenya-three-years-later

Edited to add this link

http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/11/hcg-found-in-who-tetanus-vaccine-in-kenya-raises-concern-in-the-developing-world.htmla

[TE44]

TE44 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The op does not say what vaccine Buggie, and its

> went off topic.

> I respect your work, concerns and beliefs that

> through vaccine the tetanus is now in single

> figures yarly (last time I looked).

> What has not been reported as widely is the

> AgriQ-Quest ltd where investigation is going on to

> hoe and who was to blame for the situation in

> Kenya. How long, if ever we will have to wait for

> the truth in this case, i have no idea.

>

> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standardmedia.c

> o.ke/mobile/amp/article/2001254675/tetanus-vaccine

> -row-returns-to-haunt-kenya-three-years-later

>

>

> Edited to add this link

>

> http://www.ageofautism.com/2017/11/hcg-found-in-wh

> o-tetanus-vaccine-in-kenya-raises-concern-in-the-d

> eveloping-world.htmla

Sorry edited again to say above links are regarding tetanus vaccine. But more than anything the culture of ignoring peoples concerns until damage is done, and still denial often. I am grateful to people who continue to fight for the truth.

[Saffron]

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...it is fair to look at the whole

> pictures. I have a problem with disconnecting

> fraud and lies, which

> are common in this industry, the constant battle

> for

> transparency...

To get an even bigger picture, the same applies to Big Alt Med as an industry-- fraud, lies, and lack of transparency. These are problems with industrialisation etc, inherent in many industries.

Without knowing more about the OP's particular scenario, it's hard to comment further. However, if your child successfully received their initial course of injections without notable side effects, then there's no reason to think that he/she would encounter notable difficulties with the booster. They are safe in relative terms.

How you choose to view the value of these boosters will vary. If you choose not to take the booster, consider the personal and wider social costs of infection, should you be exposed to the vaccine-preventable disease. xx

[TE44]

Indeed here is a link to Russian buyer of Holland and Barret. Its also worth looking at The Carlyle group and other big companies that have bought out smaller herb/alternative companies, especially when they still use the original often family based advertisement, making it difficult to realise the companies have no attachment with original suppliers.

I apologise for going off but wanted to add to saffrons

view. Many pharmaceuticals are very much part of the

Big alt med.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/26/holland-barrett-sold-russian-billionaire-mikhail-fridman

[Saffron]

Alternative med is guilty of fraud, lies, and lack of transparency, w or w/out big pharma, which doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to improve the pharma industry, or the alt med industry (which has indeed been guilty of egregious fraud entirely independently of big pharma in recent years).

It's a logical fallacy to assume there is no value in anything that comes from the pharma industry, or likewise to assume that anything not associated with pharma is somehow above reproach.

However, if a person wants to make an evidence based medical decision, then the evidence supports the safe and effective use of immunisations in general, in relative terms. xx

[TE44]

The problem with medical based evidence is it is often ignored or challenged if any questions regarding safety come to light.

https://www.zenodo.org/record/1034559#.Wr3x-8vTU0M

The question of safety, integrity and whether we can believe a system where to my knowledge there is not

one pharmaceutical company that has not broken the law. It is not all or nothing, medicine and healing has become a system that has somehow been overtaken by greed, mistrust and in some countries a forced treatment. This does not take away lives that have been saved but neither does it take away the fact that many people have lost trust in the pharmaceutical system on offer.

Yes, alternative med should be scrutinised in the same vein, it is worrying that it has attracted pharmy connections and multi national companies where

???s not healing is the main objective.

Regulations have encouraged this development, and it is not surprising looking at the money and peoples need to take there health and childrens health into there own hand.

[Saffron]

All the things you say about medicine are also true of alt medicine. However, there is no systematic, reflexive system for peer-review or legislative review of alt medicine.

There is a logical fallacy in the supposition that all evidence based medicine is flawed bc some some evidence is flawed (ignored etc). The idea that taking your children's health in your own hands automatically results in rejection of evidence based medicine on the premise of flawed evidence, is therefore also a logical fallacy.

[TE44]

Saffron, here is the history of regulations for herbal medicines.

https://bhma.info/index.php/legislation-on-herbal-medicines/

I realise that alt medicine is much bigger than herbs, have you looked at regulations in the whole of this industry.

[TE44]

Complementary and integregated medical research

Unit, com med is huge, lots of systematic peer reviews.

https://www.southampton.ac.uk/camresearchgroup/research/index.page