Godparents? How many? What role?

[Saffron]

How many godparents do your children have, and what role do you expect them to take?

I ask b/c we're not a religious family, but our daughter does have 2 godparents (a married couple). They are named as her legal gaurdians should Hubbie and I meet an untimely end. We thought long and hard about who would be financially able and emotionally willing to raise our daughter in our absence. Little Saff's godparents are not related to either myself or my husband, as there were no family members suitable (too elderly, too far away, not financially capable, not appropriate). However, they are deeply integrated in our group of friends and would raise our daughter among the friends who mean the most to us and would keep our memories alive for her.

We have another friend who has played a huge part in our lives, and who deeply adores our daughter. We'd like to make her a godparent too, but we're unsure how that works. Legally, do we list her as second guardian, in the event that the first set are unable to fullfill their duties?

How many godparents do your children have? Are their roles largely symbolic, or would they care for your children in your absence.

[oimissus]

my daughter is christened and has 3 godparents: 2 godmothers and a godfather. They are close friends of ours, and I don't see their role as being religious, or who would be her guardians (that would be family). I was thinking ahead, and wanted her to have a strong relationship with adults outside of the family, who she could go to for help and advice as well as, or instead of, us. Though as she's never met one and doesn't actually see all that much of the others, I'm not quite sure how that's going to work out! But she's only little still. One my husband has known since he was born, so I can see that we will always have a relationship with him which is good.

[Mrs TP]

For a girl it is usually two females and one male.

For a boy it is usually two males and a female.

Normally at least one of each and multiples are accepted.

I am not up to speed on the whole role thing but you need to check out that those you have in mind have at least been baptised themselves if not confirmed. One of 'candidates' had not been baptised and so was not recognised by the church as a godparent although was allowed to say the vows in church and the vicar advised we could consider them a 'godparent' but not formally recorded in the church records.

[Saffron]

Mrs TP Wrote:

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> For a girl it is usually two females and one

> male.

>

> For a boy it is usually two males and a female.

I've never heard of that (eg, different for boys/girls). Where does that tradition come from? C of E?

>

> Normally at least one of each and multiples are

> accepted.

>

> I am not up to speed on the whole role thing but

> you need to check out that those you have in mind

> have at least been baptised themselves if not

> confirmed. One of 'candidates' had not been

> baptised and so was not recognised by the church

> as a godparent although was allowed to say the

> vows in church and the vicar advised we could

> consider them a 'godparent' but not formally

> recorded in the church records.

No, we're not baptising our daughter. We're not religious, so that's not an issue from our perspective for godparents. We did talk to her godparents about their role before asking them if that was something they were happy to do, and they were overjoyed! :-)

[Growlybear]

We aren't religious and so did not ask anyone to act as godparents with Growly jnr because we didn't think it was appropriate. We made sure that our wills made it clear who we would want to look after her if anything should happen to us.

[Saffron]

We do call them Little Saff's "godparents" although of course they have no religious role. We wanted to call them something that would signify their importance in our lives. What else could we call them? I can't think of anything. My parents are Catholic, not C of E, so in their tradition the godparents are the ones who would take responsibility of the children if the parents perish (at least that's the tradition in their parish). It's an interesting modern conundrum as to the role/title of non-religious godparents.

[theasidonio]

How about guide parents?

[oimissus]

ooh, I'm Catholic and I didn't know that Saffron, my sister and I had different godmothers so I don't know how that would have worked - have to ask my mum the next time I see her.

I know someone who had a naming ceremony for their son and I think they call the 'godparents' 'godparents' - I guess it's understood these days it's not necessarily a religious role? After all, Harry Potter has a godfather! In the C of E church where Miss Oi was christened they were very laid back and didn't enquire as to the religious denomination (if any!) of us or the godparents!

The tradition of 2 godmothers/1 godfather for a girl, and vice versa for a boy, is a C of E thing - I didn't know it either until we looked into it.

[????]

Saffron

I think you (and others) are confusing the concept of Guardians with Godparents. A godparent is based on baptism and doesn't neccessarily take on any other responsibility in the event of a tradegy etc...a Guardian is someone(S) who take legal responsibilty for your children should something terrible happen. They are two very different things and what you describe is a guardian as identified by you in your first post. The godparent bit is irrelevant if your not having a christening.

[Belle]

some people do attribute the guardian role to godparents though I think ????. I've heard people referring to that as part of their godparent duties. But we've gone the way you describe, i.e the godparents are there for pretty much the reasons oimissus gave, but our families (specifically, two brothers) would be guardians in the event of us dying.

My first son has two godmothers, one godfather, second will have two godfathers, one godmother. We picked the people who were right for the role, weren't bothered about which gender they were, hence having different configurations. The religious side does have some meaning to me, perhaps less so for my husband. It is interesting though...I know lots of people do the secular godparent thing, and I didn't check which of ours had been baptised, as the vicar officiating is fairly relaxed, but of course I did have to be sure they would be happy to take part in a religious ceremony.

[lucyA1308]

Fairy Godmother is a nice title, for a non-religious "God parent". If religion is not involved in it, then is is rather bizarre to have the word God in the title, but everyone knows that a fairy Godmother is a special person in people's lives.

A legal guardian is totally different from any God-parent, fairy or otherwise. The two named in your wills sound as if you have made all the right decisions.

If you are not worried about religion, then stick with that.

I am sure your little one will be surrounded by many who will love and cherrish her, but if you have decided on a legal guardian already, and have no need / want of religion, then that person doesn't necessarily need a title. Just include her in your daughter's growing up and make sure she is involved in your daughter's the care and love and fun and games as much as possible.

Our 2 have got several very close friends of ours who like to be called Auntie A...., or Uncle M.... They are not relatives, but this is the title they have chosen for themselves.

Perhaps that is an option.

[Mrs TP]

Definitely echo ???? godparents and guardians are very different things.

Godparent is a religious title and only officially recognised by the church (Catholic, C of E and some other Christian denominations). It is strange to use this title outside of a religious setting.

Guardian is a legal title.

However godparents and guardians can be the same person, i.e. you may choose someone to be a godparent who legally would automatically be a 'next of kin guardian' or whom you may have legally named yourselves as a guardian.

We had our children baptised C of E and had to fill in a form which included details of our prospective godparents and whether or not they had been baptised and confirmed. All had to be at least baptised otherwise they would not be entered in the churches formal records as a godparent.

And the two females and one male for a female and two males and one female for a male is a general Christian tradition but hugely flexible. However they do usually require at least one of each sex.

[Saffron]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saffron

>

> I think you (and others) are confusing the concept

> of Guardians with Godparents. A godparent is based

> on baptism and doesn't neccessarily take on any

> other responsibility in the event of a tradegy

> etc...a Guardian is someone(S) who take legal

> responsibilty for your children should something

> terrible happen. They are two very different

> things and what you describe is a guardian as

> identified by you in your first post. The

> godparent bit is irrelevant if your not having a

> christening.

No, I'm definitely not confusing them. I know not everyone traditinally celebrates the godparent as the guardian. But as I said in the previous post, my parents are not C of E, so their tradition is that the godparent will be the guardian if the parents are unable.

I don't personally feel like "guardian" is the right title either, because they may never actually be our daughter's guardians (at least we hope not!). While Hubbie and I are alive, we are her guardians!

I think it's fine to have "god" in the title, even for non-religious use. Religion specifically applies to organised religion/church. Plenty of non-church-goers still believe in god(s).

[Saffron]

Traditionally, godparents were informally responsible for ensuring the child's religious education was carried out, and for caring for the child should he/she be orphaned. Today, the word godparent might not have explicitly religious overtones. The modern view of a godparent tends to be an individual chosen by the parents to take an interest in the child's upbringing and personal development.

Interesting to see the differnt modern views.

[Saffron]

Why would having a godparent be irrelevant if we're not having a Christening, or strange outside a religious setting? The C of E doesn't have a monopoly on the title. I like the title b/c it conveys the importance these individuals have in our child's upbringing. It's nice for our daughter, and it makes the godparents feel nice too. I like the special bond reinforced by the title.

[Kate08]

Mrs TP Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Definitely echo ???? godparents and guardians are

> very different things.

>

> Godparent is a religious title and only officially

> recognised by the church (Catholic, C of E and

> some other Christian denominations). It is

> strange to use this title outside of a religious

> setting.

>

> Guardian is a legal title.

>

> However godparents and guardians can be the same

> person, i.e. you may choose someone to be a

> godparent who legally would automatically be a

> 'next of kin guardian' or whom you may have

> legally named yourselves as a guardian.

>

> We had our children baptised C of E and had to

> fill in a form which included details of our

> prospective godparents and whether or not they had

> been baptised and confirmed. All had to be at

> least baptised otherwise they would not be entered

> in the churches formal records as a godparent.

>

> And the two females and one male for a female and

> two males and one female for a male is a general

> Christian tradition but hugely flexible. However

> they do usually require at least one of each sex.

It is not the tradition in the Catholic church, the church requires only one Godparent and that can be either a man or a woman, of course you can have more than one and I have no idea if there is a limit to how many you can have. Until recently I had never heard of anyone with more than one male and one female Godparent, I think it is very unusual in the Catholic church to have two women for a girl or two men for a boy.

[Saffron]

Yes, I thought it might be particular to C of E. I had never heard of it either, and most of my family is Catholic.

[theasidonio]

I'm Catholic and had 7 godparents, two are Greek Orthodox, one atheist and the rest a mix of C of E and Catholic - I think it is up to the priest's discretion.....

Godparent is a term of respect as well as being a religious 'title', I think it's lovely for both the child and the godparents.

[Saffron]

Ah, wiki again...

Numbers of sponsors

In the early church, one sponsor seems to have been the norm, but in the early Middle Ages, there seems to have been two, one of each sex, and this practice has been largely maintained in Orthodox Christianity.[13] In 888, the Catholic Council of Metz attempted to limit the number to one, but proliferation seems to have continued.[5] In early 14th-century Spain, as many as 20 godparents were being chosen.[14] In England, the Synod of Worcester (1240) stipulated three sponsors (two of the same sex and one of the opposite), and this has remained the norm in the Church of England.[15] The Council of Trent attempted to limit the numbers of godparents to one or two, but practice has differed across the Catholic world.

So there seems to be a lot more variation than I was aware!

[The Nappy Lady]

I think it's entirely up to each individual what you choose to call these special people in their lives.

We are not religious but our girls have Godparents, and actually we have chosen them to be legal guardians to, as the best possible option in what would of course be a terrible situation.

Rather like weddings, these days we don't have to follow the rules or risk causing outrage in the village. ;-)

Hurrah for that!

[Mrs TP]

Seeing relatives later today who had formal civil naming days for their brood so will ask if they have any formal sponsors / guardians and what they call them.

I can understand having special nominated adults for your children especially if family unable to fill this role and definitely a recognition of how important those people are to you.

But now I realise I am an old stick in the mud as the term godparent will always denote religious significance to me.

One of our godparents is rubbish and if I were to choose again today I would choose someone else. Don't even remember her meeting her god-daughter who is now 3+ as she went to a wedding instead of the baptism and someone else stood in for her. People don't always turn out the way you might expect.

[simonethebeaver]

We're planning a naming ceremony for our daughter and so far she's got five non-godparents. We have picked them for different reasons but they were all excited to be asked. I see them as completely separate to guardians, although we are still not sure who they should be. I'm still trying to think of a term for them-maybe guides?

So far they have all doted on her but showed different levels of involvement. One has set up a savings account for her and another didn't buy her a birthday present (not that we mind)!

[Saffron]

theasidonio Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Godparent is a term of respect as well as being a

> religious 'title', I think it's lovely for both

> the child and the godparents.

Yes, that's very true, esp'y the respect part. In addition, we all sort of know what a godparent is (in loose terms). While "guides" or "fairy godparents" are lovely terms, I would not turn up at a departmental dinner or formal event with my friend C and say, This is my daughter's guide/fairy godparent! Those terms just don't convey the same weight (to me at least).

I'm really pleased to find out that so many people have more than 2 godparents. We are definitely going to add a 3rd, b/c we know it would mean so much to our friend to be recognised in that way. :)

Did anyone do a civil naming ceremony? Where/how much did it cost? I know the Peckham Register (in a lovely listed building!) does them, but we're no longer in Southwark. We're in Lewisham now.

[simonethebeaver]

We are planning a humanist naming ceremony, Saffron, after having a humanist wedding. You can do them anywhere (we're planning to have ours in our garden). Anyone can lead a humanist ceremony but if you want a celebrant, you can find one here: http://www.humanism.org.uk/home . They will levy a fee depending on how far they have to travel, but there are plenty of local ones.

[Otta]

Whilst traditionally a Godparent would take over care of the child, should the parents die, I don't think your average person who agrees to be a Godparent these days would ever expect to end up with the child. It's more of a buy presents and make sure you turn up to birthday parties kind of role.

I've never heard of anyone having "godparents" outside of religion, and basically, agree with Quids that we are talking about Guardians, which is actually very appropriate for East Dulwich!