Time to ask for help - Potty training 3.5 year old!

[Otta]

Our daughter will not entertain the potty. We bought it ages ago (at least a year), but it has yet to be christened.

I think she has issues over toileting. My wife took her to the doctors, who suggested that she is constipated, and has a "backlog" of poo so it's just forcing it's way out sort of constantly. He said to give her more to drink. We give her whatever she wants to drink, and make sure that drink is always available to her, but if she doesn't want to drink, then what can we do?

Anyway, as a result, we have a 3.5 year old still in nappies full time, with no end in sight. She won't even sit down on the potty or toilet (our toilet is a horrible high "throne" so no doubt intimidating for her). She is VERY strong willed, and much as she loves a bit of chocolate, I'm not sure the bribery thing will work. She basically does what she wants to do.

Help.

[Fuschia]

How about either a child seat to go on the big loo and a step? Or let her pick a new throne type potty?

Set a target of just getting her to sit on it for a few mins, to start with?

[Otta]

I'd be over the moon if she'd sit on it for 5 seconds right now!

[Otta]

For the record, her age isn't my issue interms of "Oh my God, she should have been potty trained at 2". I am concerned that if we don't get on with it, her peers will start to tease her, and I don't want that.

[Princess]

Otta, I could have written the same post about my eldest son. He had absolute hysteria when introduced to anything resembling a potty or trainer seat.

He starts nursery in Jan and whilst they can't discriminate against untrained kids, they admit they won't be hugely pro active at helping us when he is ready and there could be a degree of embarassment/teasing if he has permanent accidents whilst around his peers which could set him back. So, I decided as we have a quiet week, I'd have another shot today. He has been a little more receptive to a potty than ever before but having said that, he's on his 15th pair of pants already! I am determined we're going to make it to the end of the week this time but it's bloomin' hard!

I know she's not everyone's cuppa but Gina does have some good tips. I am bored already of hearing my own voice saying "let's see if you can earn a smartie" literally every 15 mins whilst trying to lure him on to potty/trainer seat.

So, sorry no advice just another very sympathetic parent here.

[Otta]

Happy to hear we're not the only ones :)

[Saffron]

I would get a second opinion on the medical front. If she's had a slow bowel for some time, the lower bowel can have enlarged causing a loss of muscle tone in the bowel. Then the constipation becomes a self-perpetuating problem that increasing fluid intake will not resolve. If you've already tried lactulose and/or glycerin with no result, I would ask the GP about a short course of paediatric Movicol (macrogol). Softening the stool temporarily would help decrease distention in the bowel, and hopefully lead to overall better muscle tone, if diet overall is not an issue. Annoyingly, potty training books don't really seem to mention this.

Also from your description, could your LO have a faecal bolus? This type of blockage can occur when the lower intestine does not coordinate contractions smoothely, leading basically to a ball of firm pooh being trapped in the gut. Softer faeces pass around this ball and appear to come out in a similar fashion to what you describe.

I've known two children who've had this problem, so I don't think it's as uncommon as some believe.

[Otta]

I definitely think we need a second opinion as the GP didn't seem to take it that seriously from what my wife says.

No idea if she has any of the things you describe, but certainly worth us looking in to, thanks.

[Otta]

Saffron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Also from your description, could your LO have a

> faecal bolus? This type of blockage can occur

> when the lower intestine does not coordinate

> contractions smoothely, leading basically to a

> ball of firm pooh being trapped in the gut.

> Softer faeces pass around this ball and appear to

> come out in a similar fashion to what you

> describe.

Finally confirmed at Kings last week that this is what she has (bit annoyed they didn't look harder before last Friday!!!).

Basically we have to increase the Movicol by 2 sachets a day until she's on 8 a day for a couple of days, and just hope that finally everything will sofen up and clear out. Poor little mite.

At least we know we weren't going mad though.

[Ole]

I was also going to suggest, once the medical thing clears up, having a chat with your daughter about it. I've noticed that as my son gets older, instead of coaching, bribing and ordering about, sitting him down and explaining - in a not gown up but not quite childish way either - why I am keen on him to learn/do something is actually quite successful. So perhaps you could sit down with your daughter and explain the reason why you'd like her to try sitting in the potty is because when she goes to school she will have to go to the toilet by herself like the other big children and therefore isn't it a good idea if she started doing it? Or you could try asking her about it so that it appears as if she's taking control of it, ask her 'would you like to start using the potty like the big children?'. if she says yes then she can take ownership of it, and if she says no you can ask her why and find out if there is any other reason (if she is scared of the toilet, or it hurts, etc) You might already have tried these, but it is things that worked for me.

[Saffron]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saffron Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Also from your description, could your LO have

> a

> > faecal bolus? This type of blockage can occur

> > when the lower intestine does not coordinate

> > contractions smoothely, leading basically to a

> > ball of firm pooh being trapped in the gut.

> > Softer faeces pass around this ball and appear

> to

> > come out in a similar fashion to what you

> > describe.

>

>

> Finally confirmed at Kings last week that this is

> what she has (bit annoyed they didn't look harder

> before last Friday!!!).

>

> Basically we have to increase the Movicol by 2

> sachets a day until she's on 8 a day for a couple

> of days, and just hope that finally everything

> will sofen up and clear out. Poor little mite.

>

> At least we know we weren't going mad though.

Definitely not going mad. So pleased for you that you finally have a diagnosis. Hope things are better soon. But equally don't hold back on pestering the specialists if you think your daughter is not making progress.

When my friend's little boy wasn't getting better after loads of treatment, they finally decided to treat the intestine with Botox to minimise the spasm that was causing the faecal bolus. It sounds extreme, but it was very effective and meant that he no longer required any other interventions. By the time the Botox wore off, the rest of the intestinal muscles had strengthen enough that they could make smooth coordinated contrations. This is similar to how they now treat "lazy" eye to improve muscle performance.

Good luck. xx

[kemurf]

So pleased that you have some help. Our daughter would not poo on the toilet and was very constipated - Movicol helped a lot, as did being at home with her for a few weeks, instead of at work.

There is a very good book called Poo Goes Home to Pooland, written by a psychologist (I think), which also helps children get over the fear of pooing in a toilet. Buy it from ERIC or google it.

Best of luck

[canela]

Everybody Poos is another good book.

[buggie]

Poo goes to Pooland is available as a PDF online (ie; FREE!!) if you google it. Used it with Bugglet as she was quickly dry but didn't seem to notice/denied poo was occurring, the story talks about signs of pooing & think this did help her get the hang of it :-)