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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by youandiaredominoes 08 August, 2013 14:58

Good news about the lifts. Anyone know about the state of the rest of the station? Some concrete fell down the other week, I think under the old bridge at platform 1. This bridge has a weight restriction.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by James Barber 13 September, 2013 09:58

The official opening took place earlier this week.
It cost £6.2M to add those walkways and lifts to Denmark Hill station under the governments Access for All funding stream.
I'm amazed so much was spent to provide so little of such poor design with no boost to capacity at the station.

What do other think?

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Twirly 13 September, 2013 10:11

Have you actually read the thread James?!

Poorly designed and way too small is the general opinion I believe. It seems to have cost a fortune for very little benefit. The flow of traffic through the new gates is sometimes even worse than through the old door (at peak times), particularly as they insist on having the in/out gates alternately, rather than a section in and a section out - which means that people get in each other's way as they try to change direction. The departure boards are in the wrong place - they should be above the gates so a quick glance up tells you which platform for your train/if it's on time or you've missed it. Off to the side causes even more dithering in front of the gates.

Anyone know what is happening to the old entrance? Will it be reopened? I got stuck in the upward flow of people coming off the train I wanted to catch the other day.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by cle 13 September, 2013 14:42

Agreed it's horrendous, and agreed James - read the thread.

I hate the triple dog leg to get to the front of a London train. Zero expanded capacity. Temporaary tin shack architecture.
Shit ticketing options, no cash machines, no waiting space - dreadful.

As I've said, why didn't they do similar to the new West Hampstead thameslink station, which is an identical set up (4 tracks in a trench, 1 island and 2 side platforms) - and works great.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by El Pibe 13 September, 2013 16:33

It's a temporary situation though isn't, the old stairs will reopen.... Won't they?

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by reddulwich 13 September, 2013 16:42

What it needs is the screens moving from being right by a ticket machine - everyone bunches up.

Ideally it needs the ticketing machine moved, perhaps across to be nearer the offices. It also needs another ticketing machine - perhaps against the windows off the pavement.

Its a poor design, I had hoped they would keep the old ticket office as a way in/out. At least if it was a way out, you wouldn't have the mad congestion now of people coming in and out, bunching round the screens and queuing for the ticket machine.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by KidKruger 13 September, 2013 18:06

I think the old stairs will re-open. Much time/effort was spent renovating and recovering the stairs and the structures which house them.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by James Barber 13 September, 2013 18:17

I have read the thread. But wanted to know what people thought once they knew the ridiculous price.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Too Good To Be True 14 September, 2013 21:54

£6.2m is unbelievable.

At least half the time during the construction period nobody was working on it.

Truly awful. I reckon you could have gone to Imperial College, asked some Engineering undergraduates to do it for £0.62m and they would have done a better job in less time.

Or why not just ship in some proper Engineers from Germany (company like Hochtief), for whom this is bread-and-butter stuff. Bet they could have done it for far less than £6.2m and you could guarantee there would be people working on it solidly 8 hours a day, 7 days a week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2013:09:14:21:56:14 by Too Good To Be True.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Nigello 15 September, 2013 07:29

Agreed. I don't like being a moaning Minnie, but that amount of money and the time it took is shaming, even more so when the badly-designed result is what we got.

James (or anyone else that can help) - what about all the muck, litter etc that's now been exposed on the slopes? Can the railway owners or the franchise operators clean this up? It's a right mess and just encourages others to add to it.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by philosophie 15 September, 2013 13:36

I agree ^ . The quantity of litter on the slopes is awful, and it just encourages more. The design is bad and uninspiring. The amount of time they spent on it dared me to be too hopeful, perhaps...

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Too Good To Be True 15 September, 2013 16:22

I am also unsure why they didn't build an additional exit onto Windsor Terrace.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by rahrahrah 16 September, 2013 12:59

I understand that it was originally a £4.18 million project at Denmark Hill, so a one year overrun and an additional 2 million pounds. In my opinion, as I have said before, someone should be held responsible for such mismanagement.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by James Barber 16 September, 2013 13:24

Hi Nigello, philosophie,
I've asked the lead manager at Southwark why we don't use section 215 of the Town & Counrety Planning Act 190 to serve an 'untidy land notice' onyjhr landowner. If they then fail to clean it up the council can clean it up under section 219 of that act and sned the bill to the landowner.
I'm awaiting council officials to tell me whether they'll do this or whether the suggestion will be enoguh to get Network Rail to act.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by cle 16 September, 2013 15:17

Can you also ask TFL about ticketing? It's dismal - and I've seen signs now that weekly travelcards will no longer be on paper, so that's another massive tranche moving to Oyster. And the guy in the booth is a tosser.

A free cash machine might be handy too.

And what is happening with the original entrance?

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by KidKruger 16 September, 2013 15:56

free cash machine ?!

excellent - be there all day !!

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by ADOC 17 September, 2013 00:18

I am appalled and shocked that there is to be no exit onto Windsor Walk (based on what I'm garnering from this thread and a cursory check on the designs), especially as several sections of wall have been knocked through on this side over the extensive period of works. While it may only shave a (often crucial) minute or three off my and others' arrival onto the platform, it beggars belief that it was not considered as a curative measure for the heavy flow in and out of the main exit. It's not too late for this to be considered, surely? It's a no-brainer, with the newly constructed walkways centimetres away from this permieter wall. Can anyone advise/petition?

I also echo sentiments on project over-run and cost of works.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by James Barber 17 September, 2013 07:44

Hi ADOC,
They blew the budget and 50% more. I don't see any extra money being spent on this flawed work.
I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Let me find a train company official and meet with them.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Baggs 31 October, 2013 10:32

The last two days of ticket checking at Denmark Hill - the gates have been closed - really highlights the ridiculous design of the station. The bottlenecking at the gates when people have to check their tickets on the reader means that queues are snaking back to the stairs from platform level. There is no way that they can have this happen every day so the fare dodgers will continue to travel without tickets for the 28 days a month they can get away with it.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by the-e-dealer 31 October, 2013 10:32

If they are closed how can anyone get in?

--------------------
Nor do I

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Baggs 31 October, 2013 10:35

Sorry, that wasn't clear, the ticket gates are in operation. They are usually in a permanent state of open.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by cle 31 October, 2013 10:47

Having them closed is good for evaders, but also for accurate metrics about station usage! Only then will Southeastern/TfL/whoever spend money on improvements, or have more trains stop (several Victoria trains pass through at around 8:05-10am during a gap in service).

Any news on the paint job of the stairs? What is the final plan there, including the original entrance?

I read that in 2014, station management will pass from Southeastern to the new Thameslink franchise company. Going by their work at West Hampstead Thameslink (which I've mentioned on here as an almost identical station format) - it can only be a good thing. They're seemingly more generous on ticket machines (Oyster!) too.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by mikeb 31 October, 2013 11:33

James - this mismanagement deserves to be investigated. How can we find out who the project manager was and their explanation of how they missed the budget by 50%?

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Too Good To Be True 31 October, 2013 12:59

I'd be happy personally to pay some unemployed local youths to knock a hole in the Windsor Terrace wall and construct some steps up to the walkway. I assume an electrician could easily hook up an Oyster reader.

Lack of entrance there costs me at least 6 minutes per day, 250 days per year. That's 25 hours per year. Can see myself doing this for at least another 5 years.

= 125 hours. I value my leisure time at about £40 per hour.

125 * 40 = £5,000

I am officially putting this out to tender...

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Too Good To Be True 31 October, 2013 13:25

Cost control in publicly funded projects is awful. Surprised it only went over by 50% tbh.

Who shouldered the extra costs of the over-run? Was it the taxpayer through the "Access For All" scheme?

People complain about PFI (for very good reasons). One defence of PFI is that it pushes the risk of over-run onto the private sector.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by Bic Basher 31 October, 2013 13:36

cle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you also ask TFL about ticketing? It's dismal
> - and I've seen signs now that weekly travelcards
> will no longer be on paper, so that's another
> massive tranche moving to Oyster. And the guy in
> the booth is a tosser.


Not made clear is that period travelcards can still be sold on paper from Denmark Hill as the station is managed by Southeastern railway. It's only from London Overground managed stations that the changes were made to Oyster only.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by CocoC 31 October, 2013 13:58

I miss the coffee shop. I hope they will re-open - does anyone know?

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by bonaome 31 October, 2013 14:18

Please have a read of this press release from Network Rail [www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk]

We actually have ď...a much improved station which will provide passengers with a much better experience as they use the railway. There is better access, better information and better facilities, all of which have made a huge difference to the quality of the station."

It seems we have also got ... "better passenger waiting areas and new retail facilities including a coffee shop. Accessible toilets have also been provided within the new station building."

The station was opened by Norman Baker MP, Fiona Taylor (Network Railís route managing director for Kent) and Charles Horton (Managing Director of Southeastern.)

I'm going to tweet @networkrailPR and make them aware of the issues being raised on this thread.

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by James Barber 31 October, 2013 14:47

I've found a contact to access about this from Southeastern.

I'm also chasing planning enforcement to ensure the original footbridge and staircases are reopened ASAP.

It is appalling that so much public money could be wasted and the job not even finished and with no regard of any kind to the travelling public utility at this station.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: New entrance to Denmark Hill station
Posted by cle 31 October, 2013 15:08

Bic Basher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you also ask TFL about ticketing? It's
> dismal
> > - and I've seen signs now that weekly
> travelcards
> > will no longer be on paper, so that's another
> > massive tranche moving to Oyster. And the guy
> in
> > the booth is a tosser.
>
>
> Not made clear is that period travelcards can
> still be sold on paper from Denmark Hill as the
> station is managed by Southeastern railway. It's
> only from London Overground managed stations that
> the changes were made to Oyster only.

You need a photocard still - obselete. And they've also stopped doing weekly paper Travelcards, so again not so useful.

The only role the ticket office staff have these days is to tell people to use the machine as they don't do Oyster. Useless.

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