6BR House on Thorncombe Road

[farrago]

I think I posted this to the wrong list before.

Just wondering if anyone knows what's going on with this property: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-51365189.html

From the listings and the photos, it looks derelict, but the postman told me it's been inhabited continuously for years. Obviously I will query this with Foxtons, but thought it might be useful to see if anyone here knows the deal first.

Thanks,

Maris

[wellington]

The postman is correct. I live locally and regularly see the owners. I hadn't realised that they've moved out until I saw your post. The house has been for sale for awhile now with various agents.

[EDmummy]

Perhaps due to the price?

wellington Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The postman is correct. I live locally and

> regularly see the owners. I hadn't realised that

> they've moved out until I saw your post. The

> house has been for sale for awhile now with

> various agents.

[farrago]

I don't think they have moved out, from the postman was saying, in that he said last week he was pretty sure people lived there. But Foxtons, which has had that listing for a while, is posting photos of the inside that look like there is really significant water damage and suggest it is scarcely inhabitable. Hard to reconcile, unless the owners are living in extremis.

[Cyclemonkey]

I'd imagine it has been on the market for a while because it appears to be a damp infested shit tip with hideous carpets. At least two of the "bedrooms" appear to be pokey attic rooms with barely any light. It's also fairly ugly from the outside, the asking price of ?1.2 million is just insane.

[DadOf4]

Its got a clever indoor washing line - hence the 1.2M price tag

[farrago]

When 52 sqm 2BR flats in SE22 are fetching ?400-?450k, it's hard to argue that this is necessarily overpriced. And they've lowered the price twice so presumably are open to offers. I'm just trying to make sure it's not being squatted and also to understand if anyone knows what happened, i.e. flood or something similar.

Thanks,

Maris

[JohnL]

DadOf4 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Its got a clever indoor washing line - hence the

> 1.2M price tag

That's going to spin by itself at night isn't it... or should I not have watched

that ouija board film last night :)

[Jennys]

Cyclemonkey Wrote:

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> I'd imagine it has been on the market for a while

> because it appears to be a damp infested shit tip

> with hideous carpets. At least two of the

> "bedrooms" appear to be pokey attic rooms with

> barely any light. It's also fairly ugly from the

> outside, the asking price of ?1.2 million is just

> insane.

So funny, I love this winning description - you should be an estate agent, or maybe you are.

[Cyclemonkey]

No I'm not an estate agent, just someone who has spent too long being shown places by estate agents whose owners expect can good price but font expect to have to make the place at all presentable.

To be honest if they want to get a million plus for it they do need to clear it out properly and deal with the obvious damp problem as any potential buyer is going to bargain hard on that. Also be wary of what they don't show. Kitchens and bathrooms are always of most interest to buyers as they cost a lot of money to put right. Given the quality of the rooms they have shown I fully expect the kitchen and bathroom to be total disasters.

[LondonMix]

Its been photographed empty so its unlikely anyone should be living there. There might be squatters though, particularly if its been empty a long time.

There hasn?t been any flooding in ED that would have caused that damage. Whatever the problem is, its related to some system or structural element in the house failing.

This place could easily cost 200k to 350k to do up properly depending on what caused the damage (i.e. what needs to be fixed), if wood rot has set in and done serious damage to the timbers, what state the sash windows are in, how expensive it will be to demolish that garage that awkwardly divides the garden and if you do a ground floor extension. It?s a big house (circa 2,000 sqft excluding the garage and cellar) and assuming the loft has been converted legally and safely, the house could be worth a lot once finished.

However, I would definitely not be paying more than 800k-900k in light of what can be seen in the photos. Larger homes sell for a lower price psft so I?d be shocked if the house was able to actually sell for more than 1.3-1.4m once finished.

I?ve done up two homes, one of which was a totally uninhabitable wreck when we bought it. It allowed us to end up with a place that was worth a lot more than we spent on it, so all the work was worth it as we have a much lower mortgage as a result. I wouldn?t do it otherwise?its much easier to buy a finished house or a place that just needs cosmetic updating. Don?t underestimate how time consuming and stressful doing up a house in that kind of state will be. It?s a second full time job on top of your day job.

[Penguin68]

The 'garden' (interesting there are no pictures of that) has a garage plonked into the middle of it - side access is clearly a good thing, but that layout looks awkward.

It is clearly a fixer-upper - but it seems priced as a 'fixed-up' entity. With the loft already converted the potential is all in it being made rather more than just habitable.

There does seem to be damp - this may just reflect something easily fixed (gutters or flashing) but may be something more worrying. If there has been a significant flood (perhaps through the roof or issues with internal pipes), what is the wiring now like?

Stripping out the awful carpets back to bare board would be something - but are the carpets perhaps hiding problems?

The decor suggests that nothing has been done to the house since the sixties (at least). I suspect that may also be true of wiring etc.

There could easily be ?100k of work necessary, if not more (that's assuming there aren't structural horrors lurking). Would the house then (done-up) be worth ?1.3m? Sales around it (as in the e-flyer) don't really seem to support that.

[LondonMix]

You?d have to take for granted the entire house needs to be replumbed and rewired and then replastered and redecorated as a minimum.

The real risks in how much it will costs are:

1. What caused the water damage?failing pointing due to subsidence? Failing roof? Failing flashing, burst water heater etc. It could be simple or expensive to out right.

2. What damage has the water done?do you have severe wood rot that has undermined the timbers / integrity of the house etc?

[Penguin68]

I tend to agree that to budget for your higher estimates - up to ?350k - would be sensible until the full picture can be made clear. On the view that, even if fully done-up to a high standard, the likely best price in the current market for that layout and location will be around the ?1m mark - then paying much over ?650k in current condition (unless there's a really compelling surveyor's report showing no significant structural problems) won't even get you your money back. I'm not sure that your ?1.3m - ?1.4m 'done-up' price isn't too high. It could take a good 5-6 months minimum to put right - with good builders and a good project manager. If there's a problem with the roof this weather has just knocked a few more pounds off the value!

[LondonMix]

Yes, in this rain, the house will struggle that much more!

I think the house done up to a really good standard could sell for 1.3m plus (particularly if extended on the ground floor) but it would take some time. Most house hunters in this area are looking for smaller more affordable homes it seems so it would take some patience. One would definitely need to factor in a reasonable amount of time to sell, particularly as the house is out of proportion with the garden which might limit the market for it somewhat.

[Penguin68]

I am not convinced that a 6 Bedroom house (which implies a family) will sell around here much over ?1m without something like a convincing garden - with a (probably ramshackle) garage in the middle of it this must go and you are probably looking at another bit of work to bring the garden into selling shape - that's more money, time and effort. A side entrance (to feed the garage) clearly has benefits - but it also has security issues - more expense to address.

I am now guessing you could be tying up money for a year or more before the house is ready to go - and that's assuming you are buying as an investment. Buying it as a home, with all that needs to be done is even more problematic - I don't think you could move-in in under 4-6 months - (assuming everything went swimmingly, and still leaving stuff to do) - which means funding two abodes.

Someone who could afford the asking price couldn't afford the time for a slow self-doer-upper I am guessing.

[Cyclemonkey]

It will be bought by an investor who will do it up for a profit or convert it into flats to let out.

[Penguin68]

Even if bought to split it will still have a cost associated in bringing it up to saleable (or rent-able) value - particular when letting requirements are more stringent and mortgage interest relief no longer available. Buying, converting and selling-on as two flats is more likely now, I would guess - but those costs will be higher than uplift as a single house - you will need two kitchens for a start, and low-end installation will lend to low-end sales prices. The other issues raised above will still all need to be addressed.

[LondonMix]

Penguin-- my figures already included demolishing the garage and landscaping work. You can do that within the figures mentioned. I do agree that a house that size though with that size garden will take time to sell on for 1.3m. There are much smaller houses though with similar sized gardens that sell for 1m so its going to go for a premium to that, though the depth of the market is likely shallower. Anyone planning to live it will have to factor in rent for 6 months to a year.

I agree with cyclemonkey: this will probably go to an investor but at a much lower price. There is a reason its been sat on the market for 5 months.

[redjam]

That pic with the washing line is a candidate for that Terrible Estate Agent Photos website. Though I fear an indoor rotary washing line isn't as much of a selling point as a horse: http://terriblerealestateagentphotos.com/post/62824754189

[NewWave]

Looking at the photos of the house picture 6 seems to me to be the one with the real damp problem, Which makes me wonder, is that room part of a flat roof extension or similar?

I brought a house in North Kensington that looked similarly awful, a survey revealed the damp was caused by a flat roof on a landing bedroom which needed re-doing, that, replacing the lead flashing (or whatever its called)and re-pointing a few bricks was surprisingly inexpensive.

Granted I then had to have the ceiling and wall replastered but it really wasn't a hideous outlay.

[mikeb]

Looking at Google Maps or Bing Maps, it does indeed seem like picture 6 is the top bedroom with an enormous flat roof (see att). It also highlights the small garden.

[farrago]

Thanks very much for the thoughts here. I think I share the view about what's causing the dampness (i.e. the flat roof and a botched or badly executed loft installation), and, of course, the property is not worth ?1.2 in its current condition. But it really turns on the structural survey. And yes, the garden is scarcely deserving of the term. As for who is living there/possibly squatting it, I guess it might be worth pressing Foxtons on that. I can mention what the postman and neighbours have said, and if they still maintain it's empty....

[Cyclemonkey]

If the cause of the damp is a leaking flat roof I would imagine that there will be significantly more water damage now than there was when those photos were taken.

[LondonMix]

Yes-- and if damp has been left to flourish since the house was originally listed many months ago, I'd be surprised if there wasn't both wet and dry rot in the house to deal with.