Bye bye trains (Network Rail planning to ditch South London line)

[Rico]

Train service ends 2011.

[????]

that's another 10% of house prices

[louisiana]

So we bring in our own passport, Pimlico-style, and our own currency, Totnes and Lewes-style, and say stuff 'em.

[ruffers]

"'significant passenger disbenefits'"

A genius expression if ever I saw one!

[Jeremy]

I think there's been a mix-up in this article. I think it's really referring to the axing of the London Bridge to Victoria loop - via Peckham Rye, Denmark Hill, Clapham High Street, etc... which we've known about for a while. I don't think there are plans to axe London Bridge services from East Dulwich.

[djw]

so does that mean there cutting the ED to London Bridge line which is packed everyday to the point of bursting? Insanity

[MrBen]

I know at least three close friends who use that route in on a daily basis. It's great if you work in Victoria and you mostly get a seat. They won't be happy.

[Emma_DB]

It's always really busy! Admittedly not as packed as ED to London Bridge, but that's why I use it.

Having talked myself hoarse trying to explain to friends why I much prefer living close to good rail routes then having a tube station, I'm not happy.

[Asset]

I'm with Jeremy. It's not a loss of the ED to London Bridge.

It's a bit confusing as I've never been aware of a train direct from ED to Victoria on this supposed 'loop'.

[pebs]

This is outrageous. What to do?

[mikese22]

It's only the 'loop' service - trains will still run Victoria to Denmark Hill (then onto Kent) and London Bridge to Denmark Hill (new service as stated in the article); so being purely selfish people from ED who board at Denmark Hill will not be affected

I was amused to see ED described as '...some of London's most deprived communities.'!

[Loz]

The article doesn't refer to ED station, but says that the line is used by ED people, which is correct.

And East Dulwich is a deprived community. There's not an M&S Food or Waitrose in sight.

[dogkennel]

Councillor Barber on the ball only just "stumbled upon a set of plans" now - the report was published in February or March this year.

And IIRC the report said that it strongly supported Phase 2 of the East London Line extension (providing a service to Clapham Junction) although funding for that is still being sought.

[Siduhe]

See that others have beaten me too it, but isn't this the report we discussed at length at the start of this year?

Here and here.

Has anything changed with the plans or has our esteemed councillor only just noticed? I'm guessing that the reason for the article is that it's now confirmed rather than only planned.

[jumpinjourno]

Services will be reduced from East Dulwich station into London Bridge under the plans that have now been confirmed.

From eight trains per hour down to six - but the proposed East London Line expansion phase II should counter-act the 'disbenefits'?!

There's more in today's Southwark News?!

The ELLE phase II is going to be 'brilliant for the Olympics' in terms of visitors and workers... how many of us travel to the East End now, during the Olympics and after?!

JJ

[Jeremy]

There are NOT 8 trains per hour from ED to London Bridge. There are currently 6 for most of the day, 5 during morning rush hour (with irregular intervals), and 2 in the evenings.

[OutOfFocus]

jumpinjourno Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> From eight trains per hour down to six - but the

> proposed East London Line expansion phase II

> should counter-act the 'disbenefits'?!

This sounds like Peckham Rye to me

- 6 trains continuing to east Dulwich

- 2 on south london line (which are to be cancelled)

It will be a pain on Sundays - currently only 2 an hour with 2 SLL to Peckham Rye.

[DiD]

You should write your MP and the Mayor directly -- more lobbying from the grassroots is needed to turn this decision around.

[Esther]

In a moment of madness I called the transport people at Southwark Council about this on Friday.

The woman I spoke to was very much in agreement with DiD and strongly encouraged the writing of e-mails and letters to MP, Boris Johnson and Councillor Jeffrey Hook. ([email protected]) She said they are awaiting announcements from Boris Johnson and co on the East London Line Extension, cross river tram, future plans for train services etc. They are expecting these to be made within the next two months, so she emphasised that now is a good time to make your views on transport known.

She also asked that those people who are in support of the East London Line Extension sign the online register of support if they haven't done so already:

https://securesite.southwark.gov.uk/ShowForm.asp?fm_fid=515

[lard]

Using Peckham Rye station have found that to be a handy little train.

Although if the choice was that or a direct link to Thameslink trains which it seems to say then I would choose the Thameslink addition.

[Barn Seeker]

I'm absolutely spitting mad about this. Like getting around London isn't hard enough - this is going to make life very unpleasant for those working in the West End. I've wrote an email and thought I would attach email addresses to save on research if anyone else wanted to:

Boris Johsnon - [email protected]

City of London Transport Team - [email protected]

Tessa Jowell, Labour MP - [email protected]

Valerie Shawcross, Southwark Assembly Member and Chair of the Transport Committee - [email protected]

As above, Councillor Jeffery Hook - [email protected]

[local estate agent]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The article doesn't refer to ED station, but says

> that the line is used by ED people, which is

> correct.

>

> And East Dulwich is a deprived community. There's

> not an M&S Food or Waitrose in sight.

No, but there is a Foxtons!!

[She'llsurvive]

the previous thread on this points out that the proposals include no change in number of services to victoria.

[MadWorld74]

hang on a minute the trains from Peckham Rye are already packed! I use this route into Blackfriars every day. If the East Dulwich Station commuters start to use the Peckham Rye trains as well then the whole things goes tits up. And I WANT to travel by train not tube thanks. So the new tube proposal is of no interest to me. Bloody ridiculous.

[dogkennel]

At risk of filling up this thread with lots of words, I thought I'd copy and paste the relevant text out of the document for anyone jumping to conclusions, so that you can read its reasoning on the consultation responses and alternatives, and the package of measures it suggests. Although the ELL Phase 2 is by no means guaranteed this is quite strong support as far as Network Rail goes, and they'd be hard pushed to alter (not remove entirely) the SLL service without providing reasonable alternatives. I'm going to look forward to a 10 min or so train journey from Denmark Hill to Clapham Junction.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/south%20london/south%20london%20rus.pdf

5.3.10

Option Groups 8 and 10 considered the future of the South London Line service from Victoria to London Bridge via Denmark Hill. This subject generated 597 of the total of 627 written responses to the draft RUS from members of the public, their elected representatives, and local companies/ organisations. Over half of the submissions (308) came from members of staff at either Kings College or Maudsley hospitals. As happened with the draft Cross London RUS, many of these were evidently responding to one of several interesting but inaccurate interpretations of the RUS document, rather than to the document itself. The draft RUS did not, for example, as some people supposed, recommend any reduction in the number of trains running through Denmark Hill, still less the closure of the station itself. Full details of what the RUS now recommends are included in Chapter 7.

5.3.11

Concern was expressed about the loss of direct services from Denmark Hill to London Bridge if the SLL service were to be diverted away from London Bridge towards Nunhead and the Catford Loop. Seemingly overlooked by many local people, however, was the strong support given by the draft RUS (support which was welcomed almost unanimously by other stakeholders) to early implementation of the East London Line Phase 2 extension to Clapham Junction as a means of mitigating that diversion. This would effectively double the frequency of journey opportunities from Denmark Hill to London Bridge, at the expense of one same-platform interchange.1 In addition, the suggestions in the draft RUS would make access to the hospital sites quicker and easier (and potentially cheaper if avoiding Zone 1), particularly from west and east London; this would benefit staff, patients and visitors alike, which was a repeatedly stated aspiration of the hospital staff.

5.3.12

Among the industry stakeholders, there was widespread recognition that the SLL service cannot continue in its present form. Even without the threats posed by the likely severing of Battersea Park Junction and the loss of terminating platforms at London Bridge, the service represents a poor use of network capacity which satisfies only a comparatively low level of demand ? for which alternatives are either already available or proposed.

7.5.2

The RUS recommends that the existing Victoria ? Battersea Park ? Denmark Hill ? London Bridge service should be maintained in its present format as long as it is practical to do so. As highlighted in section 6.3.2 timetable development work suggests that a Victoria ? Denmark Hill ? London Bridge service will be able to continue in the 2010 timetable.

7.5.3

In the slightly longer term the RUS advises that retaining the SLL service in its current format will not be viable. The key drivers for changes being needed were identified in the draft RUS and are described below:

...

7.5.7

By December 2011, and subject to the development of a satisfactory business case, the RUS therefore suggests the following peak service to serve South London Line stations:

- 2tph Victoria Eastern to Bellingham, fast to Wandsworth Road then calling at all stations via Denmark Hill.

- 3tph Victoria Eastern to Dartford via Bexleyheath, calling at both Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye.

- 4 tph East London Line to Clapham Junction, though this is subject to funding for this scheme being approved.

- 4 tph Thameslink via Blackfriars to the Catford Loop, calling at both Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye.

- 6 tph London Bridge to Tulse Hill and beyond, with all services calling at East Dulwich, North Dulwich, Peckham Rye, Queens Road, Peckham and South Bermondsey

7.5.9

It is recognised that the above service pattern would also result in some features which are considered by some to be disbenefits. In particular it will result in:

- The loss of all direct trains (2tph) from South Bermondsey and Queens Road Peckham to Victoria (though a 5tph peak service would be available with a change of train at Denmark Hill or Peckham Rye).

- The loss of all direct trains (2tph) from Clapham High Street, Wandsworth Road and Denmark Hill to London Bridge (though approximately a 6tph peak service would be available by changing at Peckham Rye ? 4tph without the need to change platform).

Overall, however, the RUS considers that the loss of direct train services for these passengers is compensated by the benefit of increased frequencies.