Poisoned Dog from Peckham Rye Park

[B777]

A friend walked her spaniel in Peckham Rye yesterday and he rummaged near the tree on its side. Today he is extremely sick vomiting blood and staying at the vets. He may not survive. Please be aware when walking your dog and look out for people leaving food that dogs might eat. Please inform the park staff if you see anything concerning.

[KidKruger]

Was it food the dog ate ?

Or could it have been fungi under the dead tree ?

It's a heavy claim, so what's convinced you a dog was poisoned ?

[B777]

The vet said it was poisoning. Massive vomits with blood suggestive of rat poison (warfarin). X ray normal and acute kidney damage. I think warning people is the right thing to do. I am sure you agree if you have dogs.

[Mystic Mog]

KidKrugar please show some concern, this beautiful dog has now sadly died, B777 is kindly spreading the word so, hopefully, other owners can be aware.

[d walker]

No kidkruger not "a heavy claim", as you so insensitively state. The dog WAS poisoned as confirmed by a vet, the op was kindly informing all dog owners to be aware. Perhaps you don't have animals so wouldn't be bothered about wanting a warning

[tiddles]

So sorry to hear this - how sad. Could you let us have a bit more info as to where this was (which fallen down tree?)

I kniw is lots of dog walkers who would appreciate any warning

Many thx

[B777]

The tree on its side near the children's playground

[tiddles]

Ah- the one that is near the stream and where the footballers store their nets?

Many thanks

[Robert Poste's Child]

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend's dog. It must have been a horrifying experience for everyone involved.

I think there have been other incidents in recent years that people have mentioned in this forum, and I wondered if you were planning to let the police know in case this isn't an accident?

[siousxiesue]

Tragic. Also very concerning that it was near a play area too...

[Saffron]

Was warfare or another toxin confirmed by a lab test?

Vomiting and renal failure are also signs of Alabama Rot and similar diseases which were rare in the UK but becoming more common.

[KidKruger]

All the questions I asked were to clarify what was being said.

Loads of terms are used on this forum such as racist, sexist, mysoginist, whatever, and poisoning is a serious situation which anyone with any sense would want to be clear about the specifics rather than getting carried away when you don't think you've actually heard it through.

It's nasty the dog has died.

[Mick Mac]

Saffron Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Was warfare or another toxin confirmed by a lab

> test?

>

> Vomiting and renal failure are also signs of

> Alabama Rot and similar diseases which were rare

> in the UK but becoming more common.

What is it you don't understand about the vet having confirmed it was poisoned as stated above.

[louisemurray]

The park authorities have been trying to control the robust rat population around the lake and surrounds. There are many rodent control points - small black plastic things with bait and poison. On one walk last week I saw over 6 different rats.

I am sure that the park people try to site the baited traps away from areas that might be accessible to dogs, Dog walkers beware.

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saffron Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Was warfare or another toxin confirmed by a lab

> > test?

> >

> > Vomiting and renal failure are also signs of

> > Alabama Rot and similar diseases which were

> rare

> > in the UK but becoming more common.

>

> What is it you don't understand about the vet

> having confirmed it was poisoned as stated above.

I think people need to calm down a bit - if the poor dog was showing symptoms of Warfarin-type poisoning then it's very likely s/he found some rat poison laid down by the authorities as mentioned by Louise - a broken trap maybe? Let's not immediately leap to conclusions that some evil person is deliberately poisoning dogs, and it's perfectly legitimate for people to ask further questions about what might have happened.

Deepest sympathies to the owners.

[lavender27]

My deepest sympathy as well, to the owner of the dog, they must be heartbroken.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@rendelharris - well said.

[Mick Mac]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Saffron Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Was warfare or another toxin confirmed by a

> lab

> > > test?

> > >

> > > Vomiting and renal failure are also signs of

> > > Alabama Rot and similar diseases which were

> > rare

> > > in the UK but becoming more common.

> >

> > What is it you don't understand about the vet

> > having confirmed it was poisoned as stated

> above.

>

> I think people need to calm down a bit - if the

> poor dog was showing symptoms of Warfarin-type

> poisoning then it's very likely s/he found some

> rat poison laid down by the authorities as

> mentioned by Louise - a broken trap maybe? Let's

> not immediately leap to conclusions that some evil

> person is deliberately poisoning dogs, and it's

> perfectly legitimate for people to ask further

> questions about what might have happened.

>

> Deepest sympathies to the owners.

Calm down? The point of the above post was that it was poison, as identified by the vet, yet some people continue to post to say it may have been disease. This needs to be clearly pointed out. The vet has confirmed it was poison. Let's clear about that.

[rendelharris]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Calm down? The point of the above post was that it

> was poison, as identified by the vet, yet some

> people continue to post to say it may have been

> disease. This needs to be clearly pointed out. The

> vet has confirmed it was poison. Let's clear about

> that.

Yes, the OP says the vet has confirmed it was probably rat poison. By calm down I meant people shouldn't immediately be jumping to the conclusion that we must "look out for people leaving food that dogs might eat" as if there's some mad poisoner about the place, when it would seem far more likely, given that the authorities are laying down rat poison, that the poor dog ate some poison intended for rats - or even a rodent which had been killed by poison itself, secondary poisoning is more than possible.

ETA: Also, there are several common mushrooms and fungi which can be fatal to dogs, generally causing the exact symptoms mentioned, i.e. massive vomiting and kidney damage. Unless the vet has run a tox screen it seems only that it can be said the poor thing was poisoned, but whether deliberately or accidentally, by a manmade substance or a natural one, is not at all clear.

[Penguin68]

The time-line on this is that the vet did not start to treat the dog until Sunday (as far as I can see) - it is thus most unlikely that he/ she could have got definitive test results back (it's not like CSI when you get results in the next shot) - therefore he/ she made a reasonable assumption that the symptoms (and x-ray evidence) were most likely to be poisoning based on the speed of the onset of sickness and its symptoms. These symptoms are also, apparently, noticed in infections (such as Alabama Rot). Until (and if) there are tests to identify definitively the cause of death it is a reasonable precaution to assume the most likely cause - poison - although this could well be a tragic accident (with rat poison inadvertently moved to where dogs might get it) rather than any intent. I doubt (outwith appropriate tests) that the vet could, at this stage, 'confirm' it's poison - amongst other things I doubt that they normally carry appropriate testing kits for such screening. It is worth pointing out that it would need a huge dose of warfarin to kill, so quickly, even a quite small dog. Rats take some time to die from ingesting it (normally dying from internal haemorrhage). That suggests that it may have been a far quicker acting toxin, or a mixture of toxins.

Amended to say - this was a cross-post with rendalharris - I agree that fungal toxins can act in this way - if it was a fungus/ mushroom then it is worth checking (and quite quickly) - this sadly may not be the only dog to be poisoned if such mushrooms are growing locally. People also can pick, eat and die from poisonous mushrooms.

[Mystic Mog]

This argument is not helping the situation and , in my opinion, is in very bad taste. No one has said the dog was deliberately poisoned, just to be aware. Dogs have been deliberately poisoned in other areas of the country, so all possibilities have to considered. If, in the likely event, it is from a broken trap then the council need to be aware and check their equipment more often. But how sad that a beautiful dog has died a sad death, lets remember that and all dog lovers be aware, as that is all the original poster was trying to ensure. thinking of you JJ. X

[Mick Mac]

turtle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

No one has

> said the dog was deliberately poisoned,

exactly - "was poisioned" doesn't mean deliberately.

[rendelharris]

turtle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This argument is not helping the situation and ,

> in my opinion, is in very bad taste. No one has

> said the dog was deliberately poisoned, just to be

> aware. Dogs have been deliberately poisoned in

> other areas of the country, so all possibilities

> have to considered. If, in the likely event, it is

> from a broken trap then the council need to be

> aware and check their equipment more often. But

> how sad that a beautiful dog has died a sad death,

> lets remember that and all dog lovers be aware, as

> that is all the original poster was trying to

> ensure. thinking of you JJ. X

Oh for goodness' sake, how is it in bad taste? There's information that a dog has been poisoned in a park and concerned people are discussing what may have caused it, at the same time as offering their sympathy to the dog owner.

[Saffron]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Saffron Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Was warfare or another toxin confirmed by a lab

> > test?

> >

> > Vomiting and renal failure are also signs of

> > Alabama Rot and similar diseases which were

> rare

> > in the UK but becoming more common.

>

> What is it you don't understand about the vet

> having confirmed it was poisoned as stated above.

Mick Mac, it's very plain from my post that I'm enquiring about the toxicology specifically. I can assure you that there's no hidden agenda in my post, and no intent to be trollish.

Just to clarify in answer to your question, a vet can only make a 'symptomatic' confirmation of poisoning based on an animal's appearance. The specific toxin would have to be confirmed by laboratory analysis. Although there are some rapid lab diagnostics available, a full toxicological assessment would usually take several days to be completed. So it doesn't look like from the OP's time frame that a complete toxicological assessment could have been made.

It's important to establish, if possible, what the toxin was, and to rule out other causes. There's absolutely no point in taking the park managers to task for inappropriate placement of rat poison, if in fact it transpires that warfarin is not the cause. Likewise failure to adequately identify the correct cause could mean that people are looking out for rat bait, when they should be looking out for something else.

Warfarin is not the only chemical that causes vomiting and rapid renal failure. Antifreeze also causes these symptoms, and dogs can easily come in contact with it on accident. In addition, vomiting and rapid renal failure can be caused by fungal pathogens or bacteria such as the E. coli strain that is linked to Alabama Rot. Alabama Rot is a serious infection with a high mortality rate. It's only been confirmed in the UK very recently, so it's not something with which many vets and pet owners are necessarily familiar.

[Mystic Mog]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> turtle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > This argument is not helping the situation and

> ,

> > in my opinion, is in very bad taste. No one has

> > said the dog was deliberately poisoned, just to

> be

> > aware. Dogs have been deliberately poisoned in

> > other areas of the country, so all

> possibilities

> > have to considered. If, in the likely event, it

> is

> > from a broken trap then the council need to be

> > aware and check their equipment more often. But

> > how sad that a beautiful dog has died a sad

> death,

> > lets remember that and all dog lovers be aware,

> as

> > that is all the original poster was trying to

> > ensure. thinking of you JJ. X

>

> Oh for goodness' sake, how is it in bad taste?

> There's information that a dog has been poisoned

> in a park and concerned people are discussing what

> may have caused it, at the same time as offering

> their sympathy to the dog owner.

Some peoples comments have been quite insensitive.