Bus noise on Red Post Hill

[redposthillresident]

I?m not sure if we are the only family living on the Red Post Hill that feels this way but I have to say that I find the bus noises utterly unbearable. It is a lovely location to live otherwise but the constant loud bus noises/traffic/pollution have just proved to be way too stressful and disruptive for family with kids like ours. There is no peace and quiet; we can never rest well and we always worry about the kids? safety?

We clearly did not do our homework properly before moving here so I guess we only have ourselves to blame. But what really upsets me is the recent re-routing of the N. 42 bus. This is really unbelievable considering we already have N. 37 (which btw is a double decker 24 hour service bus) and P4. Now they re-routed N. 42 to Red Post Hill and also changed it from single to double decker for whatever reason!!! And Red Post Hill is such a small/narrow/densely populated road!!!

We are seriously considering moving and luckily are able to do so because we are only renting at the moment. But before we push the exit button, I would like to ask your opinions regarding the possibility of appealing to TFL and the likelihood of this situation ever changing?I know they are slowly changing the bus to electric or hybrid ones in the coming years but based on my research it appears to only apply to buses travelling through Central London (Zero emission zone) which unfortunately does not apply to any of these three buses?

[Villager]

The Route 42 buses are all brand new hybrid type and are much quieter and less polluting than the 37's. They really are a big step forward in terms of technology and environmental suitability. Cost a fortune but they are brilliant.

Also they have been a real boon for the kids that go to all the local schools - no more scrambling to get on 37's. The 42's have given relief to a big problem.

[sanity girl]

The 37 only goes down a tiny section of Red Post Hill and has a very different route from the 42. Personally I think the new 42 buses are great - they are hybrid and the engine shuts off at bus stops etc. I live very close to Red Post Hill and I can live with the noise as the convenience of having the bus service trumps that for me. Better than loads of polluting cars on the road!

[Jules-and-Boo]

London = traffic = noise. TO be honest, that's life. There are worse evils out there.

There are more buses on the road to reduce car volumes - especially on school routes. I think it's a good thing.

You can petition TfL to reduce the number of buses.... perhaps to commute hours, but they do have a bigger strategy, which is largely driven by the Major.

[rendelharris]

I'm hesitant to say this as it might sound a bit stupid, and I'm not trying to belittle the annoyance the buses are obviously causing you, but it could just be that you need to change your mindset. I say this as ten years ago we moved to a flat halfway up Denmark Hill, on the ground floor right next to the road. This meant there was a lot of noise day and night from ambulances, not to mention the helicopter coming low overhead to land in Ruskin Park, sometimes several times a day. I found this very disturbing at first, but then started to say to myself "There's someone's life being saved" every time I heard an ambulance and soon they faded from my consciousness, to the extent that I was quite surprised when guests asked if they disturbed me. Perhaps if you could look at buses in a different light - "there's fifty people who'd be driving their cars past here if there wasn't a bus..." Sometimes a small change of perspective can work wonders...as I said, not belittling your aggravation and maybe it wouldn't work for you, just thought I'd share what worked for me.

[dbboy]

Mayor I think, not Major!!!!!!!!!

[littledaisy]

I suspect none of the replies above are from people who actually live on the Red Post Hill like OP does...I don't live locally but have done house hunting in the area. I remeber seeing a house on Red Post Hill and bus noises are very obvious when I stood in the master bedroom which actually have double glazing windows already!! We actually liked the house but quickly decided against it given the bus noises and busy traffic as we feel it would have a very negative impact on our quality of life. My advice to OP is to move to a quieter residential road especially if you are considering buying and plan to stay for long-term.

[globaltraveler86]

I used to live in Red Post Hill. The bus noise isn't that noticeable during the day when you're active around the house, but at night, even through double glazing, the rumble of the bus is noticeable. One of the neighbours that I got to know had investigated getting triple glazing, but apparently its really difficult to block out noise from buses because of the low frequency or something like that.

That was back when there was only the P4 and 37 running, and from the OP's post it looks like there's now also the 42. With London's population growing and tube & train capacity being squeezed, I won't be surprised if the solution is to add more bus routes everywhere and increase the frequency. It is always easier to add additional buses on a road that already has buses, than get permission to create a new route through streets that don't have buses at the moment.

The house next to where I used to live on Red Post Hill sold for over ?1.5m recently - I can't imagine why someone would pay ?1.5m to live on a street with three buses (and one of them a night bus) trundling down it daily!

[Passiflora]

Don't blame yourselves redpost! TFL charged ahead with the double decker 42 and it happened and it's good in some ways but not in others! Great that you are able to move out of the area!

littledaisy, where did you settle in the end?

[Sally Eva]

"I can't imagine why someone would pay ?1.5m to live on a street with three buses (and one of them a night bus) trundling down it daily!"

Some people use buses and therefore would not be offended by a street with 3 buses (one of them a night bus) trundling down it daily. Maybe people with ?1.5m to spend on a house don't use buses but other people do. When you spend ?1.5m you buy the house and the garden but not control over the road outside. Other people are still permitted to use it and even poor people on buses are permitted to be driven along it.

Trying to see other people's point of view (see RH's post) can be very liberating and even re-assuring. The noise is not an attack on your entitlement to peace and quiet. It is the sound of other people going about their legitimate business.

[Chrismum]

Red Post Hill residents worked very hard with councillor Helen Hayes to try to get the decision

for the no.42 Double Decker Buses changed, it was obviously a foregone conclusion we were wasting

our time, TFl just seemed to go along with it -knowing they would be running the buses anyway.

It started on the 1st of October and as yet I have never seen more than 6-8 passengers on it, I use

this bus route almost every day(as I did on the single) - the only thing I can say in its favour is

that I am always guaranteed a seat & the drivers seem a lot happier- having what must be the shortest

journey on any of Londons' bus routes.

Most of the residents on the top end of Red Post Hill objected, our

road is not designed for extra(Double Decker) buses. This is not a main road where you would

expect to see Double Decker buses.

[littledaisy]

@Passiflora, unfortunately my circumstances have changed so we are no longer actively looking to move. But I still really like the Herne Hill/Dulwich area. They would still be one of my preferred locations when we are ready and (hopefully have saved enough money by then...)Having said that, I would never want to buy something on Red Post Hill for exactly the same reasons the OP mentioned...

I don't know why most of the replies here are so hostile to OP who is raising a very legitimate concern. No one is doubting the usefulness of the buses in London. OP is simply questioning the wisdom of adding one more double decker bus to a small narrow residential road which already have two buses running day and night. As someone who have done some serious house hunting in the area in the past, I feel it is perfectly understandable that if people have the choice,they would much rather rent or buy on a road without loads of buses going through...

[Passiflora]

I'm sure you're right.

[Bic Basher]

The 42 is more likely to get more busier once the bus goes back across into the City from January.

While I sympathise with Red Post Hill residents who now have double deckers, Underhill Road between Melford Road and LL has had deckers since the mid 1950s and that street is barely suitable for them.

[binkylilyput]

I really sympathise with you. I live on a busy road and cannot hear my TV when the window is open in the summer. When I'm in bed (at the back of the house, away from the road) my bed actually shakes when a big vehicle/ bus hits a bump- sometimes shakes enough to make me jump up with a start......and that's at the back of the house!

I see the point of view of TFL and bus users as I use buses a lot myself. The noise can still be tiring in the summer though.

I've learnt that the next time I move I will certainly take road traffic into consideration.

I hope there is a solution for you

[JohnL]

binkylilyput Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I really sympathise with you. I live on a busy

> road and cannot hear my TV when the window is open

> in the summer. When I'm in bed (at the back of the

> house, away from the road) my bed actually shakes

> when a big vehicle/ bus hits a bump- sometimes

> shakes enough to make me jump up with a

> start......and that's at the back of the house!

>

> I see the point of view of TFL and bus users as I

> use buses a lot myself. The noise can still be

> tiring in the summer though.

>

> I've learnt that the next time I move I will

> certainly take road traffic into consideration.

>

> I hope there is a solution for you

Mines really loud too - but not so bothered as

I'm single - but not for families.

[Siduhe]

As someone who lives on a minor street that is part of the 363/N63 route I sympathise - we're also right by a speed bump which used to make the house shake whenever a bus went over it at speed when I first moved here 10 odd years ago. That said, we also got used to it quickly and as I travel into work on the 363 most days, it seems like a fair trade off for me. Since the 363 route moved over to hybrid vehicles a few months ago, it's been amazingly quiet especially at night.

Practically, one thing that helped was getting our windowpanes/frames properly sealed so they didn't rattle or shake as much when buses went past. And when the council resurfaced our bit of road and re-contoured the speed bumps, there was a noticeable drop-off in noise too. Not sure if either are options for the OP but hope this is helpful if so.

[redpost]

I'm on the middle of red post hill and get the P4 and 42 coming past, I find the 42's are very quiet.

[redpost]

And.. if the noise really bothers you then sort out your windows.

Standard double glazing makes little difference, you need laminated glass of different thickness (4.8mm / 6.8mm). If you have UPVC get the units changed, if you have sashes then get double laminated units retrofitted.

Fit secondary glazing with a big a spacing as possible.

Gaps and poor seals on windows let the noise straight in.

Plantation shutters or thick curtains are good as well.

[globaltraveler86]

@Sally Eva I do believe that having more bus routes through Dulwich is a good thing, helps to provide more transport options for the area. I just wished they had found an alternative route - 3 bus routes down the same narrow street is not ideal. My comment about ?1.5m houses was not that I don't think those residents don't take buses, but I pity the few who paid ?1.5m+ in the last few years (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/SE24/Red-Post-Hill.html) whose properties are probably worth less now.

[Passiflora]

globaltraveler86 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @Sally Eva I do believe that having more bus

> routes through Dulwich is a good thing, helps to

> provide more transport options for the area. I

> just wished they had found an alternative route -

> 3 bus routes down the same narrow street is not

> ideal. My comment about ?1.5m houses was not that

> I don't think those residents don't take buses,

> but I pity the few who paid ?1.5m+ in the last few

> years

> (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/SE24/Red-

> Post-Hill.html) whose properties are probably

> worth less now.

What absolute drivel.

[Sally Eva]

Am I misunderstanding something? Are we talking about Red Post Hill? The 37 goes along this road for about 50m. this 50m is largely non-residential having the station and the bridge and tracks underneath the road on either side.

The value of the properties alongside the road is just not relevant. People in cheap houses -- even public rented housing -- have children and gardens and like to sleep at night. How much anyone paid for their property and whether they have lost money on it (hypothetically) is simply not relevant.

The money doesn't buy exemption from the needs of others. The poor have more understanding of this than those who are used to buying their own way. That's all.

[redposthillresident]

Thanks all for the responses. We had a long discussion over the weekend again and the decision is to move to another quieter street locally with no buses running through. We are only renting at the moment so there is little we can do to further sound proof the house as some have suggested. Plus we know one neighbour who have spent tens of thousands on sound proof of their houses and told us that it helps to some extent but not as much as they would hope for. Another family we know who live on the street and closer to the bus stop is moving too to escape the constant traffic noise. It is a shame really...

[Amaryllis]

I have lived on RPH for at least a decade. I fought the new 42 but it is quiet and regular and one day may be of use to me, like some of the other, admittedly older, residents round here. I use the 37 and p4 regularly and it was part of the appeal of buying here. (not to mention the schools these days!)

I don't have double glazing and don't hear or feel the buses. I feel the benefit of having a large Gardens at the back of most of the houses on RPH counterbalances the supposed noise and intrusion of the buses at the front.

[Chrismum]

The Double Decker 42 is a lot quieter than we expected but far too many up & down the

road - the amount of passengers using it certainly doesn't warrant more than the 6 an hour

which we have at the moment, It would also be very helpful if the drivers learnt to drive

the correct way round the traffic islands. It will be quite interesting to see how they cope

with a bit of ice/snow on the road. There is an accident waiting to happen.