Service Charge (Lounged)

[linzkg]

I get really annoyed at restaurants adding service charge to bills now a days. We were at a local restaurant on Saturday night and I asked the waitress if she got the service charge .. to which she said no (1% is split amongst the waitresses and the chefs .. so the other 11.5% goes straight to the restaurant - like they don't make enough money already that they feel they must now take the waitress tips too)

I asked her to remove it - her face lit up, she was delighted and said thanks so much. The manager gave us the correction and asked what was wrong with the service .. I said the service charge should be going to her - not you! He glared at me and shook his head. The waitress got her tip in cash and we were all happy.

I used to work in restaurants for years as a youngster and it used to break my heart when a customer would mumble "is there service, oh yes there is, so I don't need to add more" because I wasn't going to force the issue and make a big deal out of it.

Does everyone know how this works and does everyone remove the service charge?

Am I missing the point of service charge and am I the only one who gets worked up by it?

[ms_1316]

I always ask to have it removed - I always tip but always cash.

[Moos]

I don't think you are missing the point linzkg.

I always ask for service charge not to be added to the bill, and leave the tip in cash. It's always worth asking as well, as that's the only way restaurants will be aware that punters do want to pay a fair service charge, but want it to go to the waiting and kitchen staff.

[ratty]

I did not know that. Fancy naming and shaming the restaraunt?

[indiepanda]

That is dreadful, I assumed the service charge went to the waitress so don't leave a separate tip.

I don't like restaurants adding them anyway - strikes me it relies on one being too polite to ask for it to be removed when service has been poor.

I worked as a waitress as a student, and know it can be hard work, and will always leave a decent tip if service is up to scratch, but I do resent being expected to pay a charge for sloppy service.

[SeanMacGabhann]

This surfaces fairly regularly as a problem - example article

here

but nothing seems to change. Linzkg's method is the only one that works in the staff's favour (which is surely the only point if you are a tipper??)

[Keef]

I do cash tips, have known too many people working in places and getting hardly any of the money that was left there for them.

[Moos]

That's why I think you have to ask, so that the staff know that the punters are aware of the situation - and ideally leave the tip in cash anyway, as I too have also heard that some staff are afraid to tell the truth.

Reading the article SeanMac quoted, the worst that can happen is that your tip gets pocketed by your waiter when it should perhaps fairly be shared among the other staff and kitchen guys too. But I reckon the other staff would notice if someone was constantly quietly pocketing tips.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I might have searched and posted a bit too quickly to be fair Moos - sorry

I did a search for "tronc" and kind of went with the first one I got as I assumed that was teh one I'd read previously - but there are many many articles out there about how it's used to top up to minimum wage rather than a payment for service

[Moos]

I thought it was a good article.

[indiepanda]

Depends what the rules are of the restaurant on tips. I used to work in a small cafe, owner did all the cooking, paid us pretty low wages but let us all keep our own tips.

If staff were all equally good we'd end up earning same as each other in the long run, but if some gave better service, those generally earned more - which seemed fair enough to me.

We didn't add service charges to the bill either.

[Administrator]

Moved to the Lounge as it is not East Dulwich specific

[linzkg]

-- moved topic --

[Asset]

I was under the impression that a restaurant was only legally able to add a service charge to the bill when there is a party of 6 or more, other than that it is discretionary and there is no obligation to pay a service charge added to a bill.

I suspect the Inland Revenue will push for more tips to be paid via the bill and then they can be accounted for more easily and the tax on them collected.

I was a waiter for a fair while and one place I worked paid us above average wages (?20 for a 7 hour shift at the time) but kept the service which was added to the bill. We had to rely on whatever extra was left. It's pretty crap.

Just recently we were taken out for a meal by relatives and they didn't leave any tip at all. We felt so bad we went back next day to give a tip!

[cdonline]

I tend to just pay the service charge. It's easier, I'm afraid.

I don't really see that it's my job to sort out problems that staff are having regarding pay.

If I knew that a restaurant is using service charges or tips to top up salaries, while paying staff minimum wages or less, I would avoid going in.

[linzkg]

cdonline - unless you're that waitress i'm afraid .. then you may see things differently. There has been so much media coverage recently about this service charge issue and as much as people petitioned against it the restaurants have been allowed to do what they want with it. i have personally been in that position and i can't tell you how much money i have lost after so much hard work on my part - and yes maybe i should have been cheeky and told my customers that i don't get the tip .. but i'm not cheeky and i don't want to assume. but i agree with you - it doesn't make me want to support them anymore (we're so spoilt for choice so it actually helps me narrow my decisions down haha. i'm not having a go at you personally as i know a lot of people that feel the same way you do and i can see where you're coming from.

the bottom line is that most customers assume the service charge is for the waitresses / chefs and that was the way it was intended .. i find it wrong that restaurants can be so nasty and not action that - it's plain wrong.

i'm glad to see everyone else's comments and response to this - thank you - i feel normal.

so moral of the story: check with the waitress where the money goes - into their back pockets or straight back into the restaurant

ratty - hmmm .. are we allowed to .. Goose Green mean anything to you .. blue lights maybe ..? (out of the 12.5% service charge only 1% is handed out amongst the waitering staff and kitchen staff - that's shocking! and then the manager had the cheek to question the staff member that was looking after us as they're not allowed to tell us that they don't get the service charge actually, he wasn't happy that we'd asked to have it taken off - as if she'd told on so she did ask us not to say anything to him .. so now they're threatening their staff .. that's a nice way to do business!!)

[David Mc]

I'm sure I've read that some restaurants force their staff to lie about where the money goes!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tipping--waiters-restaurateurs-and-diners-join-the-debate-868567.html

http://money.uk.msn.com/consumer/article.aspx?cp-documentid=8973594

[cdonline]

linzkg,

I can see your point, but if I went to a restaurant and had to worry that the managers were fleecing me and the staff by pocketing the service charge, I don't think I'd ever go out.

I sympathise that waiting staff are not getting their dues, but if I'm going out for a meal, I do not want to spend my time thinking about how the staff are being paid.

[Moos]

For me spending is another form of voting - people vote with the ballot box, and they vote with their dollar. Life is too short to always stop and consider how best to spend the money you have in your pocket, but it's worth trying to do it most of the time. I guess it's just a question of balance. It bothers me enough that restaurants pocket staff tips to fish around in my bag for a tenner (or whatever), and for me that doesn't seem like a big deal. If it doesn't bother someone else, that's fine. But if you never think about the choices you make when you buy X goods from Y provider then you're wasting what limited power you have to influence the way your world is going.

cdonline - please don't read the above as an attack on you personally, or as any assumption about your buying habits! Your post got me thinking, and I was making a wider point. Or ramble.

[PeckhamRose]

I have put an ask in the other thread for recommendations of an independent gas boiler service person simply because the company that do our block are now asking for a ?30 service charge.

Cheeky s0ds!

But the biggest bug bear is when I book a theatre ticket and they want extra for a debit card payment (I don't even have a credit card), yet when I pay for things by cash at box office or shops and so on, they won't give me a discount!

I'm tight me, but perfectly reasonable and fair... ;)

[linzkg]

thank you Moos - yes please don't take it personally or that i was offending you at all - having a meal out is supposed to be relaxing .. but now everytime anyone goes for dinner you'll have me on your mind .. now won't that be special ;-)

[Azul]

I sometimes do the same, and ask for service charge to be removed leaving tip in cash.

other times I just can't be bothered, but its good to see other people thinking the same way.

greedy restaurant owners = greedy bankers.

tips for the people who work

[Ant]

Restaurants will soon be required to say whether tips go to the staff or not. More info: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/victory-in-fight-to-allow-staff-to-keep-diners-tips-989629.html