rant about children crossing the road irresponsibly

[sweetgirl]

I was on a bus coming back from work today & witnessed two occasions where lone kids were what I considered to be playing on the road.

two youngs lads on the grass verge opposite dog kennel hill sch.... could have been 11-12 years old.

They crossed the road without no consideration for the oncoming vehicles.

literally 10mins later, at the crossing near maxins 4 youngsters, 2 boys 2 girls, walked out in front of a car!

I was waiting to cross with my lo, & I was not amused. I had to then try to explain to my lo what they had done & how dangerous it was.

the car driver had to brake as they literally walked out in front of her car. she probably missed them by cms!

one of the boys then said to the others, "I should've let her hit me innit"

These were kids in uniform from the charter north Dulwich.

I think parents need to take a little responsibility for their kids & their actions....

generally in an accident situation they almost always put the blame on the driver, first question would be if you looked around & checked your mirrors!

as a driver I think pedestrians need to take more responsibility

I see this type of behaviour on a regular basis as my work involves driving.

The worst scenario I have seen is a mother with a pushchair & 4 kids in tow running across the road to catch a bus!

something needs to happen..... maybe the kids need regular reminders about road safety as part of the school curriculum.

[Nigello]

maybe the kids need regular reminders about road safety as part of the school curriculum.

Good idea - give the school a ring?

[sweetgirl]

@ nigella

I have every intention of calling the school!

unfortunately I can't call them until Thursday due to work commitments......

[Robert Poste's Child]

It's amazing how many people don't seem concerned about road safety. In this morning's rush hour I saw a man, presumably the father, cycling up the Brixton end of Railton Rd with one child on a bike in front of him, another behind, and he himself had a dog running beside him on a lead. None had any hi-vis though I think the kids had helmets, and all seemed oblivious to the risk of pedestrians stepping out, cars opening doors suddenly or pulling out, and this on a road that's a hotspot for that kind of thing - just after I passed them a driver in the queue of traffic suddenly pulled a three-point turn without looking. Terrifying.

[sweetgirl]

just a quick update to all those who may be interested.....

I called the school to let them know what I saw.

apparently they've had similar calls from the public previously & the school is intending to do a assembly on road safety.

[Lynne]

Two boys sharing the same bike have just come within inches of killing themselves at the junction of Townley Rd. by Alleyns at about 7.15 tonight, when they swerved across the crossing without warning right in front of an oncoming car. It's put years on my life and the poor car driver is probably still shaking.

Looked as if they were wearing sports/football kit. Possibly Alleyns' pupils? If you think you know them, explain what a car will do to a human body if it encounters one at about 20 miles an hour.

[Growlybear]

I was driving down Wood Vale at about 5.30 this evening, and was alarmed to see a young boy of about 7 or 8 crossing the road alone by the roundabout at the junction of Wood Vale and Langton Rise by the shops. There was no sign of any adult with him. He didn't pause or look to see whether any traffic was coming as he crossed from the bottom of Langton Rise to the refuge in the middle of the road, and ambled slowly across while the car in front of me had to brake sharply to avoid hitting him. He then carried on across the other half of the road, again oblivious to the car that had stopped to avoid him. The boy didn't acknowledge either car, and carried on without a care in the world, completely unaware of how easily he could have been injured. The little boy was blond, with a grey sweatshirt, and if anyone has any idea who this little boy might be, please suggest to his parents that, if they are going to let such a young child out on his own, at least teach him some road sense. Next time he might not be so lucky.

[hammerman]

sweetgirl Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> just a quick update to all those who may be

> interested.....

>

> I called the school to let them know what I saw.

> apparently they've had similar calls from the

> public previously & the school is intending to do

> a assembly on road safety.

Would imagine this is happening with all secondary schools, not just The Charter. There's always the percentage that let the schools down in their anti-social behaviour! Once the kids have left school premises I don't think there's much the schools can do except try to educate them in assemblies etc.

I've seen terrible road crossings by adults with primary age children over the years, i.e. not bothering to wait for the green man or the lollipop lady/man! There's me trying to educate children to wait for the green man and a lone adult or adult with children following them (usually with the adult on their phones) strides out in their own little world.

[Sue]

hammerman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've seen terrible road crossings by adults with

> primary age children over the years, i.e. not

> bothering to wait for the green man or the

> lollipop lady/man!

If there's no traffic coming in either direction, and no side roads from which a car could suddenly appear, I don't wait for the green man either.

And I can't help but wonder what the primary age children think when they see a completely clear road and a load of adults standing like sheep waiting for a red man to turn green.

And often it doesn't, because nobody has actually pressed the button ......

It's surely about teaching children traffic awareness and how to stay safe, not following a ritual just for the sake of it.

[hammerman]

Not sure what you're trying to say Sue as you didn't quote all of my post but I like to set an example to children and adults alike when crossing the road.

[Nigello]

Does pushing the button always mean the lights will change faster?

In central London plenty of people don't do so, which I find a bit annoying but then I wonder whether - at most times of the day and evening - the crossing is automatically regulated.

In quieter places like ED, it would be annoying if people just stand there without activating the crossing, I agree. (I really think some people don't know how to use them.)

[JohnL]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hammerman Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

>

> > I've seen terrible road crossings by adults

> with

> > primary age children over the years, i.e. not

> > bothering to wait for the green man or the

> > lollipop lady/man!

>

>

> If there's no traffic coming in either direction,

> and no side roads from which a car could suddenly

> appear, I don't wait for the green man either.

>

> And I can't help but wonder what the primary age

> children think when they see a completely clear

> road and a load of adults standing like sheep

> waiting for a red man to turn green.

>

> And often it doesn't, because nobody has actually

> pressed the button ......

>

> It's surely about teaching children traffic

> awareness and how to stay safe, not following a

> ritual just for the sake of it.

I sometimes wait for the green man because children are there.

I always press the button :)

[BrandNewGuy]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does pushing the button always mean the lights

> will change faster?

> In central London plenty of people don't do so,

> which I find a bit annoying but then I wonder

> whether - at most times of the day and evening -

> the crossing is automatically regulated.

Some crossings have an automatic pedestrian phase, some don't. Near where I work there's the busy crossroads between Borough High St and Union St. That button does need pressing otherwise the lights miss out the pedestrian phase. Amazing how many people won't press the button and then wonder why it's taking ages to cross...

[rendelharris]

On a sort of related note, parents, please don't let kids press the button when you're not crossing! It's annoying (especially for a cyclist (and yes I stop at all reds whether people are crossing or not), losing all that hard-won momentum) to have to stop when little Timmy's pressed the button for the fun of it and nobody's crossing.

[Sue]

hammerman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not sure what you're trying to say Sue as you

> didn't quote all of my post but I like to set an

> example to children and adults alike when crossing

> the road.

I didn't quote the first part of your post because it wasn't relevant to my point and I didn't want to clog up the page with unnecessary words :)

I thought my point was quite clear? That we should be teaching children to stay safe on the roads, which is about far more than just "waiting for the green man". Quite apart from anything else, there may not always be a pedestrian crossing anywhere near where they need to cross.

As I said, or thought I had, teaching children only to "wait for the green man" in every circumstance is counter-productive, as everybody with half a brain cell can see that if there is not a car in sight - nor likely to be within the time it would take to cross the road - "waiting for the green man" may be a complete waste of everybody's time.

It needs wider training about identifying where a vehicle could come from unexpectedly (eg a side road or a speeding vehicle round a corner) and taking that into account when deciding when and where to cross - and indeed, whether to wait for the green man, which is mainly useful in circumstances on main roads where there is likely to be a lot of traffic.

Surely once a child is old enough to be out by themselves, they are old enough to understand that? If they aren't, they shouldn't be out by themselves.

[JohnL]

If I'm alone I'll cross even when cars are coming if I know there's time to do so - I try not to do that in front of children as they can't judge speed so well IMHO.

Sometimes I think Teenagers can be impetuous or think they're totally invulnerable (I thought so) - at 18 I remember rushing across the road to catch a bus and getting run down by a taxi (first time in London and wasn't used to the roads at all) - luckily I just got up and dusted myself down. Schoolchildren living in London probably dealt with traffic better than me when I first moved here.

[DulwichLondoner]

Sue Wrote:

> And I can't help but wonder what the primary age

> children think when they see a completely clear

> road and a load of adults standing like sheep

> waiting for a red man to turn green.

In Great Britain jaywalking is not an offence (it theoretically is in Northern Ireland, but is hardly ever enforced AFAIK).

IMHO it should be. The fact that the US made it an offence due to pressure from the car lobby doesn?t mean the concept is wrong. In many European countries it is an explicit offence to cross against the red man, or to cross away from a designated crossing, if one is within a certain distance. Look at what the French came up with (brilliant, methinks):

Realistically, nowhere in the world are there policemen stationed at every corner with the sole intent of catching out jaywalkers. These rules exist to deter dangerous behaviour, because people cannot be trusted to determine themselves what is safe and what isn?t ? that?s why we have rules in the first place. Oh, and also to help determine blame if a collision does occur.

Lots of adults standing like sheep waiting for the green man are no different from cars standing like (pick your analogy?) waiting for the green light, even when the road is completely empty and it would be safe to run through the red light ? this is a scenario which does happen, not in central London at rush hour, but it does happen, even in London.

When I am with my little daughter, I ALWAYS wait for the green man, even when the roads are empty, because I think it?s very important to set an example. When I am by myself, I admit I might sometimes cross against the red man, but only if visibility is excellent and no one is approaching.

Practical example: do you know the corner between Dog Kennel Hill and Edgar Kail Way? Going from the East Dulwich station towards the Sainsbury?s, left side of the road, just after the small park, there is a traffic light. Lots of people cross when it?s red, but that?s dangerous, because they can?t see cars turning left from Dog Kennel Hill, and cars cannot see them before turning.

[tigerranks]

i say bring back back the old tv advert

GREEN CROSS CODE

[JohnL]

tigerranks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> i say bring back back the old tv advert

> GREEN CROSS CODE

"I won't be there when you cross the road .. so always use the Green Cross Code"

Couldn't resist checking and he came back in 2014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30145697

He looks so .. old :)

[DulwichLondoner]

The next iphones should have a sensor that automatically turns the screen black and lowers the volume of the music when a user approaches a road crossing!

I commute in London by motorcycle. I often daydream about having a device which does just this to all the mobiles in a half-mile radius ? oh, how much safer my rides would be! Motorcycles are more exposed to stupid behaviour than cars because they can ? legally ? filter. The Denmark Hill bus stop is a particularly dangerous spot, because people are always crossing the road away from the traffic light and with their heads buried into a smartphone screen, and don?t realise that busses and vans hide them from the sight of oncoming vehicles.

[Houseoflego]

Sorry to add to the rant but i was really freaked out last week when a boy (11 or 12), walked out of a side street straight across crystal palace road without looking or taking down his massive hoodie (a minecraft hoodie). There was no way he was able to look up and down the road and he didn't even try.

I was going very slowly so he lived!

[JohnL]

Houseoflego Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry to add to the rant but i was really freaked

> out last week when a boy (11 or 12), walked out of

> a side street straight across crystal palace road

> without looking or taking down his massive hoodie

> (a minecraft hoodie). There was no way he was able

> to look up and down the road and he didn't even

> try.

>

> I was going very slowly so he lived!

If someone is speeding (going more than the speed limit) down that road and hits someone, the law won't say the boy didn't look, they'll throw the book at the driver.

That's one reason why I still stick to 20 in a 20 zone.

[DulwichLondoner]

JohnL Wrote:

> If someone is speeding (going more than the speed

> limit) down that road and hits someone, the law

> won't say the boy didn't look, they'll throw the

> book at the driver.

Are you sure? I suppose it depends on case law. If a driver goes at 25 mph in a 20 mph zone and hits a pedestrian who did something appallingly stupid (e.g. jumping in the middle of the road from behind a van without looking), common sense would suggest both the drivers and the pedestrian should be at fault. After all, pedestrians can cross when it?s safe to do so ? they do not have a constitutionally guaranteed right to Darwinianly select themselves out of the gene pool by involving other people in easily preventable accidents. But law and common sense don?t always go hand in hand; plus I?m not a judge, so my opinion is irrelevant!

My desire to avoid these situations is precisely the reason why I ride defensively, i.e. assuming there are only two categories of road users: those who want to kill themselves and those who want to kill me, too. It sounds cocky, but anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle in a big city would understand. Jokes aside, when driving/riding you should always assume that what is hidden from sight is a potential danger. You can?t rely on other people being sensible, even when it?s their own life that?s at stake.

Incidentally, one of the reasons why I am against 20mph limits introduced in the entire area of a borough is because it creates a further incentive for people to cross when and where they shouldn?t, rather than going through the hassle of walking 30 yards to the next traffic light and waiting 20 seconds for the green man. Btw, note that the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents is against introducing 20mph limits in an entire borough, and especially on major A roads.

[rendelharris]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Btw, note that the

> Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents is

> against introducing 20mph limits in an entire

> borough, and especially on major A roads.

This is the policy statement on their website:

RoSPA's Policy Position on 20mph Speed Limits

20mph zones are very effective at preventing injuries and RoSPA would like to see their wider use in residential areas.

20mph zones significantly decrease the risk of being injured in a collision and their greater use, especially in residential areas, would help to reduce the number of traffic injuries in the UK.

Local Authorities are responsible for determining where 20mph zones and limits should be introduced but should take advantage of opportunities to introduce them where they are needed.

Consultation and engagement with local communities and other stakeholders is of vital importance, to make sure that safer roads are prioritised where needed and that local communities have input into the schemes development.

I can't find any statement on a policy on borough wide or A road schemes - citation please?

[rendelharris]

Actually I remember now, you quoted them before:

"RoSPA does not believe that 20mph

speed limits are suitable for every road in a local authority area. They should be targeted at roads that are

primarily residential in nature and on town or city streets where pedestrian and cyclist movements are high (or

potentially high), such as around schools, shops, markets, playgrounds and other areas. Roads which are not

suitable for 20mph limits are major through routes. "

As I said previously in reply, for East Dulwich that means the South Circular (which doesn't have a 20mph limit); where else in this area do we have roads that are not either primarily residential in nature or don't have schools, shops, markets and/or playgrounds and don't have high cyclist and pedestrian movements?