Mayor of London Consultation - cleaner air

[Butland]

The Mayor of London has launched a consultation with a view to extending the ultra low emissions zone to greater London. The webpage explains the impact polluting vehicles have on individuals' health (particularly children and elderly)and we know that London regularly exceeds legal pollutant limits. Please have your say on this matter by completing the attached link. The closing date for the consultation is next Wednesday 28th February.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3b/consultation/subpage.2017-11-29.7192468685/

[rendelharris]

28th February!

[tigerranks]

With all these new road junction designs i now find that i am in stationary traffic far longer than i used to this contributes to more local pollution as traffic now builds up

this is a plan by tfl and local governments as a way of getting rid of old cars and and are forcing you to purchase new vehicles

this whole emissions thing is a fix wasn't it about 10 years ago they was publicly saying diesel cars are the future

now in certain boroughs this are charged more

im in the motor industry and these new cars have this adblue additive and these exhaust fumes are unbreathable

[hpsaucey]

Maybe this is the way to go? Trialling free public transport in some German cities to combat pollution.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a8d5f3ae4b00a30a25117a4

[Sue]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> 28th February!

I got a letter about this some time ago.

I looked up the links and if memory serves I couldn't understand the info and put the letter to one side.

Can someone with more brain cells left than me post a summary on here?

[rendelharris]

Not sure about the brain cells but it's simply asking opinions on whether the ULEZ (ultra low emissions zone) should be extended to include virtually everything inside the north and south circulars; that would mean all HGVs which don't comply with Euro IV and VI standards for nitrous oxide and particulate emissions would have to pay a heavy charge for driving in the zone (?300 and ?100 respectively) and that older private cars (lists and specifications on the TfL website) that are the most polluting would have to pay a ?12.50 daily charge for driving in the zone.

[Butland]

I shall try but please feel free to add as I'm not an expert!

It's been decided that in 2019, any vehicles entering central London will need to comply with certain criteria with regards to vehicle omissions or pay hefty daily fines to travel in the area with polluting vehicles. The Mayor is running this consultation to gather opinions with a view to extending this lower emissions zone to either (a) north and south circular or (b) greater London. As i understand it, NO2 emission and particulate matter are particularly harmful to health and there is lots of research by Kings and other similar institutions describing the health impact of breathing air polluted with these emissions. There are set legal limits for these pollutants and unfortunately London regularly breaches these limits. The aim of the consultation is simply to collect people's views on extending the ultra low emissions zoning to cover a wider remit.

It should be noted, there will be exceptions. So if you live in the area with one of these vehicles, you have more time to comply and so initially will mainly capture vehicles entering London from outside the area.

[uncleglen]

As the OP said in the last post London regularly breaches the air pollution limits...AND we are regularly FINED by the EU for this...I would guess that many EU lorries that come here are polluting and good look with tracking them down and fining them...not to mention the VW emissions scandal.

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> As the OP said in the last post London regularly

> breaches the air pollution limits...AND we are

> regularly FINED by the EU for this...I would guess

> that many EU lorries that come here are polluting

> and good look with tracking them down and fining

> them...not to mention the VW emissions scandal.

Yes it's all those damned immigrants as usual! Weren't you accusing others just the other day of turning any thread into a vehicle for their own hobbyhorse? If the ULEZ is extended there will be teams carrying out spotchecks and imposing instant fines on all major arterial routes, so those pesky Europeans won't get away with coming over here and polluting our air, don't you worry. Furthermore, all HGVs in the EU already have to comply to Euro IV and VI emissions standards and have done for nearly three years, so they wouldn't even get here if they didn't, they'd get pulled on their way - we in the UK have, I believe, been the slowest of all EU countries to comply.

[Nigello]

Maybe this is the way to go? Trialling free public transport in some German cities to combat pollution.

I think it is acceptable on a small scale, such as hopper buses (ideally electric) to take people from pinch points to larger stations or points of interest but I would hate to add to the crowdedness and sometimes unpleasantness of the daily commute. We'd all do a bit better if we walked more. Sitting on a bus going nowhere is no fun and walking liberates you and sometimes is only marginally slower.

In the meantime, the Mayor ought to do more to fine engine idlers. The problem is endemic and I have never seen a police officer or warden or PSO asking drivers (often of diesel vehicles like vans, lorries and taxis) to turn off their engines. (I try, but it's not much fun being sworn at by selfish morons.)

[Sue]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------

>

> In the meantime, the Mayor ought to do more to

> fine engine idlers. The problem is endemic and I

> have never seen a police officer or warden or PSO

> asking drivers (often of diesel vehicles like

> vans, lorries and taxis) to turn off their

> engines. (I try, but it's not much fun being sworn

> at by selfish morons.)

Absolutely agree, and I try too.

Thanks to posters above for the explanations.

[kford]

The top line is, with some exceptions, if your diesel car is roughly older than a 15-plate, you will have to pay ?12.50 a day to drive around within a boundary set by the south and north circulars.

A quick tally of the diesel cars in my street, suggests that that 90% of them will become worthless in a couple of years' time.

Check your reg on the uLEZ advice page.

[uncleglen]

And add to the traffic pollution the increase in the burning of non-smokeless fuel around this area which is very noticeable- anyway at least they will not be able to fine us when we have left the EU

[hammerman]

Like Sue, I had some kind of questionnaire from the Mayor of London at least a month or so ago put through my letterbox about cleaner air but for one reason or the other I put it in my recycling bin!

As usual, rendelharris seems to know better, but oh yes, he's a cyclist!

[ianr]

Closes 28 Feb 2018

[dbboy]

The Mayor seems to want to slow the traffic to walking pace.

There was this idea that if traffic is restricted to 20mph oh that would deter drivers using their vehicles. Drivers find 20mph is hard to maintain, and again journeys as a result take much longer, The whole idea of roads is that you want traffic to move smoothly and continuously, not to have stop at every 50ft. Just take a look at the mess the council made by putting removing the zebra crossing and replacing it with traffic lights at the bottom of Forest Hill Road. What was the result, traffic backs up in both directions, before that scheme was put in place the traffic flowed down Forest Hill Road, Not any more. Please think about the decisions these pen pushing bureaucrats are making "on our behalf"

And locally on Lordship lane this ridiculous extension of pavements does nothing but slow the traffic, another example on Crustal Palace Parade where the council in their infinite wisdom (not) are extending the widths of teh pavements, all to slow traffic flow. FFS has nobody in the glistening towers where these decisions are made have realised all this does is further reduce and more importantly slow the traffic so it sits at traffic lights spurting out fumes we all breath in, which leads to premature deaths.

Just the other side of the Elephant and Castle the cycle highways restrict the normal flow of traffic, resulting in it backing up. Try crossing Blackfriars bridge, before the lights were changed traffic flowed freely, not any more. People will travel by train more but they are packed in like sardines and the costs are prohibitory. Travelling around London is no fun any more, everything takes so much longer, even just getting to Peckham fron Woodvale.

Maybe the answer is to use the back streets to cut through on a push bike!!!!!

[rendelharris]

hammerman Wrote:

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> Like Sue, I had some kind of questionnaire from

> the Mayor of London at least a month or so ago put

> through my letterbox about cleaner air but for one

> reason or the other I put it in my recycling bin!

>

>

> As usual, rendelharris seems to know better, but

> oh yes, he's a cyclist!

I don't make any claims to know better, Sue asked for an explanation so I offered it. Not sure why that's a problem.

[Arborealist]

How to respond guide here: www.caroline-russell.london/clean-air

[DulwichLondoner]

dbboy Wrote:

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> The Mayor seems to want to slow the traffic to

> walking pace.

>

> There was this idea that if traffic is restricted

> to 20mph oh that would deter drivers using their

> vehicles. Drivers find 20mph is hard to maintain,

> and again journeys as a result take much longer,

So I'm not the only one who dares have this opinion!?

[uncleglen]

Went to the P.O. via North Cross Road. An Adams Catering etc Lorry was parked on the corner outside the Palmerston with its engine running. I went to the P.O. and queued up as you do and then went to M and S and bought a couple of things. Went home the same way and the lorry was STILL idling. I know it's cold but.....

[Nigello]

I hope you asked the driver to switch off.

[uncleglen]

Nigello Wrote:

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> I hope you asked the driver to switch off.

No I didn't because the last time I asked a van driver to switch off I was threatened.....

[kford]

Check whether your vehicle will be compliant here:

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/check-your-vehicle

[micromacromonkey]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> dbboy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > The Mayor seems to want to slow the traffic to

> > walking pace.

> >

> > There was this idea that if traffic is

> restricted

> > to 20mph oh that would deter drivers using

> their

> > vehicles. Drivers find 20mph is hard to

> maintain,

> > and again journeys as a result take much

> longer,

>

> So I'm not the only one who dares have this

> opinion!?

20 mph speed limit is because there is a measurable effect on road traffic casualties isn't it? It's a pain in the arse but I don't think it was introduced specifically to piss people off as you suggest.

[DulwichLondoner]

I remember multiple discussions with rendelharris about this. The DfT commissioned a multi-year study on this because the results from initial trials were not conclusive. And what have most councils done? Ignored the DfT and started implementing 20mph zones all over, so that, even if the DfT should recommend against them, it will be too late.

RoSPA, for example, don't recommend setting 20mph limits throughout 100% of a council.

Note I am not saying I know 20mph are useless; I am saying that their effectiveness has not been proven.

I am also sceptical because 20mph is such a low speed that it's all too easy to go slightly above without realising; when I dared mention this, lots of people had a go at me, so I can only suppose all the forum participants are incredibly more skilled car drivers and motorcyle riders than myself, so hats off to them. And no, it's not the same with 30mph, because it is easier to keep speed at 25-29 mph without constantly looking at the speedometer. Also, there is no tolerance for speed tickets, so I could in theory be fined a % of my salary for going at 21 mph. I find this whole thing rather dumb because it almost forces people to spend more time looking at the speedometer than at the road, which does not seem the best way to promote road safety.