ED buses (overcrowding)

[dukesdenver]

I contacted TfL recently to complain about overcrowding on the buses along LL, especially on the 176 and 185.

Here's the response:

'Thank you for your e-mail of October 13 concerning overcrowding on buses in the East Dulwich area. We at Transport for London (TfL) are most grateful to you for drawing the issue to our particular notice, and I am pleased to respond.

To the best of the information available to me, I have to report that there are no plans currently to add buses to routes 176 and 185 in the weekday morning peaks. Please note that the peak hour service on route 185 was augmented as recently as September of last year. However, I appreciate that local circumstances can swiftly change, and also that we are witnessing growth in bus patronage throughout the network, both of which may account for the overcrowding you are experiencing.

I have forwarded your comments to the department responsible for planning and instigating amendments to our bus services. Although all our services are monitored as a matter of course, we are always pleased to receive additional information from members of the public such as you. It greatly assists with our evaluations. Please be assured that your views will be taken into account when the routes concerned are next being assessed.

Thank you once more for bringing the matter to the forefront of our attention. Please contact me again if you require any additional information.'

Perhaps if a few more complaints are received they will actually DO something - the contact form is here if anyone is so inclined:

Contact TfL Buses

Now if only we could also get them to clean the buses once in a while...

[Nero]

I would pass it on to Tessa Jowell (TJMP on here). At least that way she's aware of a problem, even if she cannot solve it immediately.

My solution is to buy a weekly pass and jump on the first one that comes and then swap. It's ?13.50 a week, I think. If you are travelling twice a day, five days a week, you'd pay ?10, so for that extra third you'd have much more flexibility.

[bon3yard]

On yer Bike! :))

[phillyboy]

I wonder if Tessa uses the bus...

[SeanMacGabhann]

I know Ken used to/does

But if you were a politician who read some of the bile from people in places like this forum - would you want to travel cheek by jowell (sorry!) with these people?

[Applespider]

I complained a few weeks ago too about both peaktime buses and the fact that the 176 doesn't seem to have non-peak hours. There have been a few 10pm weekday evenings where you can't get on a 176 at the Strand or Waterloo which seems ridiculous. And the number of times that the 185 leaves Victoria packed to the gunnels in the evenings mean that it regularly leaves people standing too.

I got a similar response minus the bit about there being no current plans to increase services. The 185's increase in service just restored it to the level it was at before the last company went under rather than adding more services.

I see what you're saying about swapping but sometimes there's no guarantee that there would be room on a bus at the last 'swap point' as I've discovered to my cost at Camberwell Green on occasion.

[hoser]

Could somebody also explain why the 40/176/185 all have to arrive at the same time? Surely staggering them a bit would be better!

[LuvPeckham]

It's like the Number 12 - You wait ages for one to arrive, and then two turn up together joined in the middle !!!

However following on from Hoser, why is it that buses seem to come in packs regardless of route or number... are the drivers scared to turn up alone incase of irate passangers who have been waiting ages for any bus at all...

[SeanMacGabhann]

in 2008 do people still think bus companies conspire to send all buses out at the same time? (sorry - that sounds overly harsh..)

Bus bunching is a well studied issue and occupies many many people trying to solve it - but it's work that's never apprceiated - witness the griping when 2 of the known solutions (shorten routes and making some buses pause for a while mid-route) cause so much uproar amongst passengers

Buses are on a fixed route whereas the traffic around them diverts off at each junction so it's not that surprising that eventually 4 buses on a similar route will end up together. Couple that with the fact that more often the buses don't arrive together but we only remember the times they do

I have often been at Waterloo at rush hour where 176s sail by but whereas it used to bug me now I do just get on the first available bus and change at the other end - usually Camberwell. In 8 years of doing this I have NEVER not been able to get on a bus at Camberwell at any time of day or night. Not once - not even close

Ditto 185s at Victoria - to not get on at the terminus is barely believable. I have been 4 people deep in that scrum but by the times 185s arrive things have thinned out to the point that there has never been a time I couldn't get on. That sounds like I'm calling you a fantasist Applespider but I'm not - it's entirely possible that you have a particularly nasty schedule. I just wanted to show another side

My observation in the last 6 months is that timetables have stayed the same but the number of buses has decreased slightly and waits are longer. I have no idea if my perception is wrong, if Boris is at fault, or if all of the roadworks in South London are taking their toll

Avoiding the peak peak peak manic times for buses is usually possible tho - I get an earlier morning bus with no problems - so what if it's 20 mins less in bed - better that than an over full bus with more traffic.

Of an evening if I get back from Bournemouth and can't face the Waterloo scrum I'll just stop somewhere and read a book for half an hour. I know not everyone can do that but if you can shift a mindset a little bit you'd be surprised how in control you can feel

Increasing the number of buses isn't always the solution - As they all congregate in the middle of town they themselves can be the cause of much of the congestions

[Brendan]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> in 2008 do people still think bus companies

> conspire to send all buses out at the same time?

They do you know Mac and they intentionally make the trains run late. And all those people who piss about at the station, causing queues and getting in everyone?s way are actually employed to do that by the ministry of transport as is the guy who goes around putting gum on the bus seats.

[Applespider]

Sean, sorry, my earlier post wasn't clear about the 185 at Victoria. I've never not got on it at Victoria either. What I meant was that it's often so busy by the time it leaves Victoria with people standing (particularly if there hasn't been a 436 for a while) that it doesn't let people on on Buckingham Palace Road/ Vauxhall/Oval.

I do manage to change at Camberwell most of the time. But on occasion I can't. Most recently one Thursday night a few weeks ago, I got off one bus at Camberwell and couldn't get on the 176 that arrived a few minutes later. A 185 arrived shortly afterwards so it wasn't too bad. But I don't particularly like hanging around Camberwell after 11ish - I'd feel safer and more comfortable with getting on at Waterloo and not changing. It just gets particularly frustrating when you see lots of buses on other routes stopping at that stop which are more frequent and less busy!

At peak times, why don't they shorten some of the routes where they end up with particular congestion? With the 176, they could run some to Trafalgar Square/Aldwych rather than having them all going to Oxford Circus/TCR. That would avoid that hellish run along TCR/Charing Cross Road which can take longer than the rest of the route and mean that there was some room on them by the time they run along the Strand/Waterloo?

Changing behaviour is one option - I get off peak trains at Peckham Rye rather than Denmark Hill since it's infinitely easier to hop on a 363/197 than hang around hoping that a bus with space might come along there. And I use a gym in town since that allows me to delay my journey home til the worst of the rush is over. But sometimes, it would be nice if stuff just worked as it's supposed to rather than having to make accommodations.

And yes, the buses pre-8 are infinitely quieter but please don't tell everybody! ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

Mac???? Mac??? I have taken every kind of abbreviation but... Mac? Brendan.. you may be part of the 5000 but I have to question that ;-)

Applespider: you make some good points there. I don't especially love changing at Camberwell at any time to be honest. Not Camberwell per se (before Alan Dale reads this and has a pop) - but just that main junction where too many people/cars/buses/nutters/Michael Hodges all collide

And yeah it would be nice if stuff worked as it should do - but in truth the buses in London, for a city this size, work better than buses in any comparable city I know. As you point out you couldn't get on a 176 and then a 185 is along a few minutes later. And most of the time that's ok IMO. It's hard to imagine a situation where buses become so frequent and so empty that the accommodate everyone all the time

But I still do think that the wait between buses (that's the 40, 45, 63 and 176 for me regularly) has become quite noticeably longer of late... shhhhhh

[Nero]

The 176 service is getting worse, if the increase in the amount of time I have to wait for them is to go by. I've waited up to twenty minutes for one at about 11am on Saturday and Sunday at The Plough or Townley stops. The 12 took 1 hour 50 to get to Trafalgar Square the other day. It crawled down Peckham from the Rye to Camberwell Green. It was very annoying. I don't think the powers that be have taken into account the number of new arrivals in ED over the past few years. I avoid buses whenever I can and walk as much as possible. That way I stay calmer and a bit fitter. (BTW, if you are ever told that they can't turn off the heating as it is set at the factory, don't always believe the driver. I've asked for the heating to be turned off and the driver has obligingly flicked a switch to do so. Others told me it wasn't possible. Perhaps that is the case on a different model of bus?)

[RosieH]

Mr MacGabhan, I would think the potential to run into the fabulous Michael Hodges would be the very reason to embrace the jostle outside the Camberwell Superdrug. Sadly, I have never done so, but am going to start hanging around in anticipation...

But yes, I'm inclined to agree the wait between buses is getting longer. I'm not saying it was Boris wot did it, but in recent months, I've noticed not only a wait, but my bus journey time creeping up too, as buses are now overcrowded and it takes ages at every bus stop (what the hell is going to happen if he really does away with the bendies I shudder to think - it used to take 30 mins on the 12 to get to Elephant, if that, now it's more like 40/45).

It could just be road works and the like, but I suspect foul play

[veryseriousgirl]

I haven't noticed any problems with the 40 as I go in to work (well before 8, though), but I have noticed a decline in service when I try to get home in the evening. I often wait for ages at the stop at monument (around 7pm), then the next two buses that come by are so full that they aren't picking up passengers (and the infrequent 35s that go past are even more packed - all those Claphamites) so I give up and walk the rest of the way to London Bridge and get the train home.

I prefer to sit on the bus and have some uninterrupted reading time, but I also like actually getting home...

[Vagueman]

Any chance we could pester tfl to get an express version of the 176 - ie. one that stopped only at Penge, Sydenham, Forest Hill, Harvester, Plough, Lordship Lane, Ed station, Kings, Camberwell, Elephant, Waterloo, Aldwich and Tottenham Court Road. Its the stopping every 100 yards that makes it take so long. Most people during rush hour are heading into town and there are plenty of buses along this route which would still stop and every stop. With fewer stops it should be easier to keep the bus on schedule too.

[RosieH]

not to be pedantic, but would that constitute an express?

[SeanMacGabhann]

I don't know about overcrowding, but this week has seen 2 of the longest journeys from Blackfriars to Dulwich I have experienced. I'm not blaming the buses - cars were as affected as the bus I was on but it was painful

What's worse is I tried a second route after the horrific Monday night - that was a 45 to Camberwell which took over an hour just for that leg. So yesterday I went the Old Kent Road route which was even worse - almost 2 hours to get to Peckham Rye

No idea what's going on traffic wise at the moment but if it happens again I'm working from home tomorrow. Grrrr

[whishter]

It has been a nightmare this week for some reason - this morning I waited for 35 minutes before I could get on a 40 from the post office bus stop on Lordship Lane (from 8am). In that time only 2 40 buses past but both did not stop as they were already full. Yesterday morning it took an hour and half from getting to the bus stop at 8.15am to arriving in work in the city at 9.45am. I think I'll be letting TFL know.

[SeanMacGabhann]

And to completely condradict myself from an earlier post (so apologies in particular to hoser on this point) this morning as I passed the start of the 40 route on Etherow St, I saw two 40's start the route at the same time. Then, not 2 minutes later a third started off - and then nothing for 20 mins

Something is afoot - I used to be able to set my watch by the 40 at the start of LL up until a month or two ago