shocking driving in East Dulwich

[NewWave]

Today driving east along Lordship lane at around 2pm From Felbrigg road to Overhill road I had no less than THREE cars just pull right out of the side roads to turn right in front of my car, one made no effort to stop causing me to sweve

another did an emergency stop as did I but made no effort at apology.

I was doing the 20mph limit, had I been going faster as many do There would definitely have been a smash.

I was badly shaken up after the emergency stop to be honest as we were a hares breath away from collision through no fault of my own.

Hence Ive taken to this forum to ask drivers to PLEASE stop and look when turning out of side roads, it will take you seconds but could save you a lot more.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Please don't think I'm in any way dismissing your experience as I know how selfish and dangerous some drivers are around here (and I'm usually on a bike so no armour at all), but 'a hare's breath' has totally made my day. I LOVE it. Much better than the original. Picturing it now and probably for some time to come.

[SpringTime]

Yes the driving in this area is I think subject to a decline in quality when it comes both to manners and safety. Drivers not stopping or even slowing to allow pedestrians to walk across junctions on the side roads is another issue, double parking, parking on corners of junctions (understandable for many van drivers of course - but not for more than a few minutes), drivers skipping red lights at pedestrian crossings, people swinging out of the side roads without looking properly.

Maybe I just notice this more since I hit a cyclist - entirely my fault. Chap was ok but it takes this kind of event to make some of us more alert to the hazards. Seems to be a lot of really bad driving in SE22 though - worse than the immediately surrounding postcodes IMO

[DulwichFox]

Cars pulling out of side streets is a product of the 20 MPH speed limit.

More drivers are assuming they have more time and do not want to wait for

those sticking to the 20 MPH limit to pass by.

Also, more Pedestrians are now chancing it and running across the road in front of cars.

DulwichFox

[nxjen]

Yesterday my experience was a car chancing it in my path as I was crossing, on the green man, at the crossing from North Cross to M&S. The car was stationery outside M&S facing towards the Plough, I was half way across when the car started and drove at speed through the red light in my path to reach the Budgens side of the road and continue south. I was not the only pedestrian crossing the driver showed no regard whatsoever.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I think selfishness and poor road manners are more frequent causes. I'm so tired of seeing drivers using phones, even looking down texting while moving forward at junctions.

Yesterday on Rosendale Rd I passed a driver (female, white, in case anyone makes the wrong assumption) sitting right on the corner of Eastmearn Rd in a small black hatchback, engine running, smoking a huge spliff with a cloud of skunky smoke for at least 50 yards in all directions.

[KidKruger]

My obsessive side can't reconcile "east along Lordship lane from Felbrigg road to Overhill road".

[nxjen]

There was me thinking I'd got my OCD under control by not commenting

[Sue]

:))

[NewWave]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My obsessive side can't reconcile "east along

> Lordship lane from Felbrigg road to Overhill

> road".

sorry if I've upset people somehow but if I say between the Plough and Wood Vale does that make sense?

I can't remember every street name. but I was travelling towards forest hill as opposed to Goose green

Please don't trivialise what is actually a serious subject causing genuine concern.

[christgill]

I don't think you've upset anyone, and I don't think anyone is trivialising your experience. But I suspect that a lot of people, like me, try to picture the situation being described in posts like yours.

And driving "east along Lordship lane ... from Felbrigg road to Overhill road" is something difficult to get your head around, especially since Felbrigg doesn't come to a junction with Lordship Lane.

I guess you mean that you started at Felbrigg and finished at Overhill and went via (say) Hansler and then Lordship Lane.

[KidKruger]

no trivialising intended, but directions are directions and to some mindsets it's a conundrum which has to be made to make sense, including mine !

I had thought that actually you'd meant Underhill Road which (almost) joins Fellbrigg and Overhill - with the help of Upland.

Anyway, the day of agonising what was actually meant is now entire, thank heavens.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I have experienced a few instances of people shooting out of side roads, or careering round corners recently. I nearly got taken out a few weeks back by someone doing just this as I was crossing the road.

I do think it's possible that the extended yellow lines at corners might encourage more risk taking. When you can't really see round the corner, you're forced to stop. When you can, some people will glance without slowing down.

It would be interesting to know if there is any assessment of the real life impact of these changes taking place?

[Louisa]

I sympathise with the OP. On a daily basis I am confronting these situations. As a pedestrian it is often a high risk game to cross any of the side roads off of LL, as many cars still think 30 is appropriate in a densely populated residential area. In this weather especially, it only takes someone to slip on ice or snow and potentially you could end up in hospital or worse.

What also angers me, are ignorant pedestrians. I always stick to the 20 speed limit regardless of whether I have some angry person up my rear egging me to go faster. More often than not, the two fingered salute deals with said situations. Some pedestrians do not bother to thank drivers for stopping, often when they walk out into the busy main road and grind the traffic to a half rather than use allocated crossings dotted up and down the lane. Ignorance.

Foxy is of course correct in saying, the 20 speed limit probably reinforces a climate in which drivers believe it is safe to half pull onto the busy high street assuming oncoming vehicles are doing 20 and will safely stop in time. Perhaps we should consider lowering the speed limit to 15?

Louisa.

[Earl Aelfheah]

There are plenty of people who travel a lot faster than 30 on the side streets of ED. The real problem is that there is no enforcement officers - Just speed bumps and the odd camera in fixed and visible locations.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I had someone right on my bumper this morning on Sydenham Hill, driving really aggressively. They overtook me at speed after tailgating for some time. The 20mph on that particular stretch is counterproductive imo (at least whilst it remains unpoliced as it currently is). It leads to even more dangerous driving.

[Nigello]

Bad driving is not to be endorsed but being a less-than-clued-up pedestrian is also a problem. It is really hard to see people when it is dark and when you add text-walking or just being stupid - like walking across a road without any checking - then driving is made less easy. (I am a pedestrian with no car.)

[Earl Aelfheah]

There are a few big problems when it comes to discouraging dangerous driving:

1. too many 'passive measures' which don't encourage individual responsibility and can increase frustration and aggressive driving in some

2. little to no policing of speed limits

3. very, very lenient sentencing on the rare occasions that people are charged

[Earl Aelfheah]

Nigello Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bad driving is not to be endorsed but being a

> less-than-clued-up pedestrian is also a problem.

> It is really hard to see people when it is dark

> and when you add text-walking or just being stupid

> - like walking across a road without any checking

> - then driving is made less easy. (I am a

> pedestrian with no car.)

It's not a problem which of remotely of the same magnitude though. A pedestrian who is not paying attention is primarily a risk to themselves. Someone driving an average sized care at 20 mph and not paying attention, can very easily kill someone else.

[NewWave]

Agree with all of the above recent comments.

Trouble is we have a 20mph limit but with no one and no obvious visible means of enforcing it, it becomes ultimately useless.

And just fuels the fury of the aggressive tail gaters with try and overtake us diving at the perscribed limit!

Unless there is a visible means of enforcement and people actually get stopped with hefty fines imposed the speeding and reckless driving sadly seems to be part and parcel of living in our area.

And truth is I say our area because the driving is definitely worse here.

[Angharad_L]

Driving round here is terrible - especially on Barry Road where people drive so fast for no reason.

Although, the other day I had to overtake a cyclist who was both head down on his phone texting AND had massive headphones on.

[Calsug]

Walking across zebra or pelican crossings round here I?m never totally confident cars will stop for me

Top worst is the goose green roundabout crossings as most drivers are too busy concentrating on merging onto the roundabout or the Barry road / Peckham Rye crossing where drivers are going too fast. Many times I?ve had drivers cruise straight through and give me a nonchalant wave!?

As for cars pulling out in front of you, definitely a London thing and totally selfish/dangerous or even what I call the aggressive nudging out into the road at junctions - if they pull out in front of me to do this I now make a point of driving round them if they are blocking my side of the road ( when I safely can)

[Sue]

Calsug Wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------

>

>

> As for cars pulling out in front of you,

> definitely a London thing and totally

> selfish/dangerous or even what I call the

> aggressive nudging out into the road at junctions

> - if they pull out in front of me to do this I now

> make a point of driving round them if they are

> blocking my side of the road ( when I safely can)

Whilst I agree this may often be selfish/aggressive (probably the same drivers who tailgate others to intimidate them in a 20mph zone), it is sometimes very difficult to see from a side road when the main road is clear to pull out, because of parked cars in either the side or main road.

Also, particularly if there is a lot of traffic, sometimes the only thing to do is to nudge out gradually so that you can see and make use of a brief break in the traffic.

Many of the side roads round here are just not suited for the amount of parking and traffic they get, and people parking on double yellows with no fear of a fine just makes things worse for everybody else.

[Calsug]

That I agree with but I mean pulling out in front of me to make me stop so they can cross over. Most of the time will gladly slow and flash lights to let someone out if they are waiting but pulling out to make me stop is pretty annoying

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Calsug Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> ---

>

> >

> >

> > As for cars pulling out in front of you,

> > definitely a London thing and totally

> > selfish/dangerous or even what I call the

> > aggressive nudging out into the road at

> junctions

> > - if they pull out in front of me to do this I

> now

> > make a point of driving round them if they are

> > blocking my side of the road ( when I safely

> can)

>

>

> Whilst I agree this may often be

> selfish/aggressive (probably the same drivers who

> tailgate others to intimidate them in a 20mph

> zone), it is sometimes very difficult to see from

> a side road when the main road is clear to pull

> out, because of parked cars in either the side or

> main road.

>

> Also, particularly if there is a lot of traffic,

> sometimes the only thing to do is to nudge out

> gradually so that you can see and make use of a

> brief break in the traffic.

>

> Many of the side roads round here are just not

> suited for the amount of parking and traffic they

> get, and people parking on double yellows with no

> fear of a fine just makes things worse for

> everybody else.

[KidKruger]

Sue:"Also, particularly if there is a lot of traffic, sometimes the only thing to do is to nudge out gradually so that you can see and make use of a brief break in the traffic."

Absolutely.

The exit of Pellatt Rd onto LL for example (by the laundrette).

If you want to turn right the view is hampered by parked cars, often vans.

This is where the 20mph is useful (would be if drivers obliged the limit).

You have to nudge out to see what's coming. All too easy for drivers on the main road to criticise that, especially when they don't have a magic solution for how they would do it themselves !