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The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your builder, plumber, electrician or carpenter?
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messageNew Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")attachment
Posted by Zak July 02, 12:12PM

In case anyone is thinking of snapping up one of the new flats going up next to ED station, take a look at the attached picture.

From the outside it looks like they are properly built with bricks - as you might expect. But in fact the visible brickwork is simply a "brick skin", somehow attached to the exterior cladding which encases the building.

What you see here is the damage caused by a lorry which brushed the side of the building.

They look quite smart, but don't be fooled!

Attachments: New ED Station Flats 2.jpg (260.2KB)  
messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by JohnL July 02, 12:58PM

This company even has a video of how they build it.

[www.eurobrick.co.uk]

Suppose as long as the buyers know what they are buying.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by ruffers July 02, 01:57PM

Exactly. What's the problem?

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by nxjen July 02, 02:05PM

I noticed that when I was passing by the other day. As long as they pass safety standards, I don't see a problem. Makes me wonder how many other new buildings are using the same system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 02, 02:15pm by nxjen.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by Jules-and-Boo July 02, 02:08PM

we were looking at a flat near the harbour around Portsmouth and that was the same - basically made of wood. Was put off by the lack of durability (as well as the excessive price for a wooden structure)

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by chazzle July 02, 02:53PM

The flats by the station are built out of concrete, so pretty durable. I wouldn't fancy sitting on that corner balcony (with a glass screen) though.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by dbboy July 02, 03:05PM

brick "tiles"

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by eastdulwichproperty July 02, 03:11PM

That's standard construction. A modern building built with concrete and steel will be far sturdier than a period property built with shallow foundations and bricks. The brick cladding is just for aesthetic reasons. The depth of the brick tiles allows for far more insulation. It is a fantastic idea in my view. Modern construction techniques whilst retaining some character. You will find far more problems with Victorian properties built on clay around here

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by nxjen July 02, 03:24PM

But when you know it's sheets of tiles made to look like bricks, it's somehow not the same



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 02, 03:25pm by nxjen.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by sahmatin July 02, 03:35PM

The system is constructed with 20-30mm thick slips of actual clay bricks on a backing board, the gaps are pointed with mortar.

Brick slips are used in modern construction because in most framed buildings traditional construction is not suitable: window openings are too large, balconies and piers make the detailing extensive and often require additional secondary steelwork to support the brickwork. This increases the amount of brick material along with the secondary steelwork which increase the building weight: subsequently foundations also need to be sized accordingly. Using full clay bricks purely as a cladding system therefore comes with a hugely unnecessary carbon footprint.

Steel and concrete framed buildings are much more robust than in traditional construction as they have effective ties in all directions, many Victorian buildings lack these.

The title of the post is a bit like saying "Be Warned, this mobile phone doesn't have a cord and it's not plugged into the wall!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 02, 03:44pm by sahmatin.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by Penguin68 July 02, 03:48PM

Much of the 'Portland Stone' you will see in Belgravia is a veneer. It is the underlying strength of build and e.g. the insulation etc. used which is most important. Modern true 'brick built' houses have an inner wall of breeze blocks. Brick - as facings - has mainly been decorative since the 1960s or so. You have to go back to pre-war (perhaps just pre 1960) to find fully brick built houses as the most normal type, with brick commons used in the inner wall and facings on the outer.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by Calsug July 02, 04:58PM

Tower Bridge as well... thats a stone facade.


Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Much of the 'Portland Stone' you will see in
> Belgravia is a veneer. It is the underlying
> strength of build and e.g. the insulation etc.
> used which is most important. Modern true 'brick
> built' houses have an inner wall of breeze blocks.
> Brick - as facings - has mainly been decorative
> since the 1960s or so. You have to go back to
> pre-war (perhaps just pre 1960) to find fully
> brick built houses as the most normal type, with
> brick commons used in the inner wall and facings
> on the outer.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by Houseoflego July 02, 06:48PM

I thought it was a bit of a bodge when i saw them putting the tiles on. You can try to dress it up as acceptable but its blatantly not going to last as long as real brick. As already shown.
A lot of modern new builds are built with a very short term view of looking good long enough to sell. Peckham Rye is about to get hundreds of new build 2 bed flats. I hope they have planed a bit further ahead.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by Jim1234 July 02, 07:18PM

They look like they're being made of some seriously shoddy materials.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by spider69 July 02, 07:27PM

Houseoflego Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought it was a bit of a bodge when i saw them
> putting the tiles on. You can try to dress it up
> as acceptable but its blatantly not going to last
> as long as real brick. As already shown.
> A lot of modern new builds are built with a very
> short term view of looking good long enough to
> sell. Peckham Rye is about to get hundreds of new
> build 2 bed flats. I hope they have planed a bit
> further ahead.

Solmons Passage was a classic example of this.

How many flats being demolished and peoples lives shattered

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by stoo31 July 02, 10:53PM

eastdulwichproperty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's standard construction. A modern building
> built with concrete and steel will be far sturdier
> than a period property built with shallow
> foundations and bricks. The brick cladding is just
> for aesthetic reasons. The depth of the brick
> tiles allows for far more insulation. It is a
> fantastic idea in my view. Modern construction
> techniques whilst retaining some character. You
> will find far more problems with Victorian
> properties built on clay around here

I’d take a Victorian house that’s been standing for 110+ years than a quickly constructed block of flats that is built to line the pockets of the developers

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by JohnL July 03, 10:07AM

LOL in Co-Op house ironically I've got a wall in front of my balcony built of solid red brick smiling smiley (It certainly looks like it anyway)

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by chazzle July 03, 11:30AM

There is a link with Soloman's passage: [www.staidansgroup.com]

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by spider69 July 03, 01:03PM

Pity the flats were not as good as the computer generated picture.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by Flux capacitor July 03, 01:55PM

I noticed that façade long before the damage that now afflicts the building. I wasn't impressed to be honest if just seems like their cutting Corners to make a quick profit which should no longer be tolerated. We could report the company to

Trading Standards


[www.citizensadvice.org.uk]

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by sue k July 03, 02:30PM

i just feel it's sad that they haven't appeared to have taken any care or consideration to marry up with the brickwork of the station itself, so it is a nice continuity..i'm wondering how they will finish the side elevation of the station, that appears to be left unfinished from the demolition? Shame

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by ruffers July 03, 02:40PM

Flux capacitor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed that façade long before the damage that
> now afflicts the building. I wasn't impressed to
> be honest if just seems like their cutting Corners
> to make a quick profit which should no longer be
> tolerated. We could report the company to
>
> Trading Standards
>
>
> [www.citizensadvice.org.uk]
> e-help/report-to-trading-standards/

On what grounds exactly will you be reporting them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 03, 02:42pm by ruffers.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by monkeylite July 03, 08:02PM

Looks fine. Obviously it is damaged because it was hit by a lorry. Want to see pictures of brick houses when hit by lorries? They can look pretty bad too.

While my 140 year old Victorian house is still standing, it is only doing so thanks to being a mid terrace held by other houses, some of which has been underpinned. Insulation is horrible and I can hear my neighbours sneeze, and smell whenever they smoke weed or whatever. My next house will definitely be a new build.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by betternowthanthen July 04, 10:47PM

Can't believe they tore down the old station building, that was once a pleasant garden center,what a crime and should not have been allowed to happen, councilors have crimes to pay for (again) and replaced with a average quality boring building of over priced stuffy cramped flats looking onto a road full of bus's and ambulance's, East dulwich station looks pathetic now, wedged up between the bridge and the horrible block, gentrification is great hey?

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by Passiflora July 04, 11:23PM

Thanks to the OP for posting the photo. What a bodge job and I wouldn't feel safe living there!

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned!
Posted by bsand July 05, 07:09AM

chazzle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a link with Soloman's passage:
> [www.staidansgroup.com]

Yes well dodgy.

[www.southwarknews.co.uk]

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by Blackcurrant July 05, 07:50AM

betternowthanthen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can't believe they tore down the old station
> building, that was once a pleasant garden
> center,what a crime and should not have been
> allowed to happen, councilors have crimes to pay
> for (again) and replaced with a average quality
> boring building of over priced stuffy cramped
> flats looking onto a road full of bus's and
> ambulance's, East dulwich station looks pathetic
> now, wedged up between the bridge and the horrible
> block, gentrification is great hey?


Yes, it was a lovely spot before but the owner of the garden centre couldn't resist cashing in on the land value. Same trend all over London. Another example is Whitten Timber in Peckham, who have sold their plot to developers and renting back half of it, while plastic-clad high-rise "executive apartments" are shoehorned into the other half. Those kinds of new build flats are now plunging in value. Councils shouldn't have been quite so gullible about the housing shortage and the need to build forests of white elephants all over London.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by JohnL July 05, 10:01AM

Blackcurrant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> betternowthanthen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can't believe they tore down the old station
> > building, that was once a pleasant garden
> > center,what a crime and should not have been
> > allowed to happen, councilors have crimes to
> pay
> > for (again) and replaced with a average quality
> > boring building of over priced stuffy cramped
> > flats looking onto a road full of bus's and
> > ambulance's, East dulwich station looks
> pathetic
> > now, wedged up between the bridge and the
> horrible
> > block, gentrification is great hey?
>
>
> Yes, it was a lovely spot before but the owner of
> the garden centre couldn't resist cashing in on
> the land value. Same trend all over London.
> Another example is Whitten Timber in Peckham, who
> have sold their plot to developers and renting
> back half of it, while plastic-clad high-rise
> "executive apartments" are shoehorned into the
> other half. Those kinds of new build flats are now
> plunging in value. Councils shouldn't have been
> quite so gullible about the housing shortage and
> the need to build forests of white elephants all
> over London.


I'm not so sure they're plunging (mine hasn't yet) - first time buyers and shared ownership would be the main buyers (and they still have incentives to buy) - the flats falling are the super executive ones worth a million.

Edit: I suppose what I live in is on the cusp of social housing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 05, 10:11am by JohnL.

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by Blackcurrant July 05, 11:37AM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blackcurrant Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > betternowthanthen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Can't believe they tore down the old station
> > > building, that was once a pleasant garden
> > > center,what a crime and should not have been
> > > allowed to happen, councilors have crimes to
> > pay
> > > for (again) and replaced with a average
> quality
> > > boring building of over priced stuffy cramped
> > > flats looking onto a road full of bus's and
> > > ambulance's, East dulwich station looks
> > pathetic
> > > now, wedged up between the bridge and the
> > horrible
> > > block, gentrification is great hey?
> >
> >
> > Yes, it was a lovely spot before but the owner
> of
> > the garden centre couldn't resist cashing in on
> > the land value. Same trend all over London.
> > Another example is Whitten Timber in Peckham,
> who
> > have sold their plot to developers and renting
> > back half of it, while plastic-clad high-rise
> > "executive apartments" are shoehorned into the
> > other half. Those kinds of new build flats are
> now
> > plunging in value. Councils shouldn't have been
> > quite so gullible about the housing shortage
> and
> > the need to build forests of white elephants
> all
> > over London.
>
>
> I'm not so sure they're plunging (mine hasn't yet)
> - first time buyers and shared ownership would be
> the main buyers (and they still have incentives to
> buy) - the flats falling are the super executive
> ones worth a million.
>
> Edit: I suppose what I live in is on the cusp of
> social housing

Yes it's the top that's falling, especially the developments marketed abroad. The bottom of the market continued rising a lot longer but I suspect that's flattened off now.

M&S might be compensate for loss of the garden centre to some extent, if that happens..

messageRe: New Flats At ED Station - Be Warned! (it has a "veneer")
Posted by dbboy July 05, 12:11PM

just love the overflow pipe sticking out on RNS right avove the station roof, such a nice feature and the angle is lets say interesting!!!!

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