Terrible thing to happen whereever you live or whoever you are. My thoughts are with his friends and family today.

If the account in the Metro is correct, a gang war seems very unlikely.

There were fights out there a week or so ago, over drugs - so we first assumed that.

It's absolutely awful to hear he was just passing by on his way home.

My heart goes out to his family.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the account in the Metro is correct, a gang war
> seems very unlikely.

Really? i havent seen that mentioned anywhere.

Charles Martel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crime is not caused by areas, it is caused by
> specific individuals, criminals who are as mobile
> as the rest of us. Unless you believe that we
> live in some sort of magically protected enclave,
> we are as exposed as anywhere else to crime of
> this type. A man was stabbed through the head in
> Dulwich park in 2017 by someone who wanted the
> price of a bottle of rum. Why do people persist
> in deluding themselves? Nowhere in London is
> safe.

On the basis of your argument here, you can conclude no-where in the world is safe because your 'mobile criminals' can travel anywhere they want and commit crimes. Of course that's technically true, because anything can happen to anyone at any time. However, even a set of unrelated incidents produce a statistically emergent and generally predictable rate (or change of rate) over time for a particular area because people are, on average, fairly predictable in their behaviours and decision making. That's why a country has a generally consistent birthrate (that rises and falls gradually), or a road section has a fairly consistent accident rate. People's decisions are distributed on a bell curve and over thousands or millions of events, a pattern emerges.

In the case of crime, decision-making is correlated to casual factors in the population such as access to mental health services, poverty level. You can therefore form a statistically significant conclusion about whether an area is 'more safe' or 'less safe' if you think about these factors. You can also consider how change in these underlying factors might affect the derived crime rate.

So of course on an individual basis, you can never rule out a one-off anywhere you go, but you can still choose to manage your risk, and take steps collectively to mitigate the underlying causes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 11, 03:36pm by ianjm.

Bic Basher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The victim has been named.
>
> [metro.co.uk]

Very sad, poor guy, and sad for his daughter. Reports certainly don't paint a picture of a person who was an instigator here. I guess we'll find out in time if there was any actual motive beyond a cigarette, what a terrible waste if so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 11, 03:40pm by ianjm.

Those who knew him will miss him.

alice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those who knew him will miss him.

of cousre and apart from anything else, its an absolutley brutal way to die. Horrific. poor man.

with so much knife crime, there will be more knives "needed" for protection and it will esculate further if there is not a structured approach put in place to reduce this epedemic.

A crowd of Mr Anderson's family and friends were gathered outside the shop this afternoon. Heartbreaking for them all. I can't see from any of the reports, or have I missed it, but has there been an arrest? Or is the murderer still at large?

Mayor Khan was on just now, saying that "middle class drug users" have to take some of the blame for such deaths (though why only that class is responsible is beyond me). It's all very sad for the family and anyone in similar situations.

Looks like the family & friends are holding a vigil this evening

Nigello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mayor Khan was on just now, saying that "middle
> class drug users" have to take some of the blame
> for such deaths (though why only that class is
> responsible is beyond me). It's all very sad for
> the family and anyone in similar situations.

Confused as to why drug users of any class have to take some of the blame for this crime? Sounds like someone very disturbed attacked a local man going about his business in a freak incident. Not drugs or gang related in any way by the sound of it

hellosailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Confused as to why drug users of any class have to
> take some of the blame for this crime? Sounds like
> someone very disturbed attacked a local man going
> about his business in a freak incident. Not drugs
> or gang related in any way by the sound of it

He was talking about the rise in knife crime in London in general, not the specific ED incident. Even if he was there would be an arguable point: more drugs=more gangs/violence=more people carrying knives=greater risks to innocent bystanders.

Charles Martel Wrote:
---------------------------------------------

>
> Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich is
> obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London is
> safe.


Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.

If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that doesn't make the area "unsafe".

let Me just clear something up my brother has been the victims friend since childhood and NO it’s not drug or gang related.
Going home from a friends birthday party and refusing to give someone a cigarette 🤬

He sounds like a really nice normal guy. It really brings it home, doesn't it? Not gangs, criminals, drugs or kids messing about, just someone like you and me popping into a shop on his way home from a night out.

I think what many of us find too hard to think about is that there are people whose lives, for whatever reason, are so damaged, corrupt or brutalised that a cigarette is the price of a life.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He sounds like a really nice normal guy. It really
> brings it home, doesn't it? Not gangs, criminals,
> drugs or kids messing about, just someone like you
> and me popping into a shop on his way home from a
> night out.
>
> I think what many of us find too hard to think
> about is that there are people whose lives, for
> whatever reason, are so damaged, corrupt or
> brutalised that a cigarette is the price of a
> life.

very nicely put thank u Robert poste’s child

I live very close to the site of this horrible crime.

Firstly, I offer my sincere condolences to the family of Dennis Anderson. I didn’t know him or any of his family or friends but, from what I’ve read in the press and on the cards and messages left for him, it sounds like he was a good family guy who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I really feel for him and his family. You wouldn’t choose to go that way. He was clearly very dearly loved given all of the flowers, candles and messages that have been left for him.

Secondly, if you do have any information that could help to catch the murderer then please do contact the police. There is a dangerous man on the loose and, judging from the newspaper reports, he seems very troubled.

Finally, I have lived all over London and moved to East Dulwich 7 years ago. I feel lucky to live here with my young family. It’s a safe place with lots of good, happy people living good, happy lives in this leafy, vibrant little town in South London.

London is a patchy, sprawling metropolis however and you do see troubled people all across the city.

When I first moved to London I lived in Islington on a fancy street. I was a young lad and got the chance to live in an old judge’s townhouse with some friends while the owner sought planning permission to go wild doing the place up. The house was a bit ramshackle but the area was stunning. Crime still happened there. A short walk in the wrong direction and things could feel a bit edgy. There were stabbings and assaults.

A friend of mine lived in Brixton in 2005 and there were shootings while he lived there. When I lived near London Bridge it seemed very safe but there were lots of troubled people who loitered in and around the station and Borough Market - the same goes for both Liverpool Street and Victoria stations (and I’ve worked near both for long periods).

London is the Big Smoke and it tends to attract (or maybe even create) troubled people. We don’t look after vulnerable people in London as well as we could.

Anyway, the point I’m labouring to make is that a horrible crime like this is, thankfully, an exceptional and awful occurrence and it could happen anywhere (sadly increasingly so across the capital). Poor Dennis wasn’t taking a terrible risk by going to the cornershop in the wee hours of the morning. He was just unlucky that someone unhinged walked in after him.

The good people who knew Dennis have been writing messages about how much they loved him. It seems to me that they won’t let the manner of his tragic death define him. Quite right. Similarly the good people of East Dulwich won’t let this tragedy define our community.

I’ll be taking my little boy out on his scooter, walking the dog in the nearby parks, visiting Champion Hill to cheer on the Hamlet and dining and shopping along Lordship Lane.

So I’ll be out and about with my family this weekend and I reckon the overwhelming majority of you will be out and about too.

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Martel Wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich is
> > obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London is
> > safe.
>
>
> Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.
>
> If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that
> doesn't make the area "unsafe".

Dennis Anderson was brutally murdered in our high street for the most trivial of reasons. His killer is still at large, armed and dangerous. There is a murderer on the loose so why would anyone feel safe?

This crime fits the same pattern as many others where a random, seemingly trivial argument between strangers leads to an act of extraordinary violence. The reality is there are people who have created their own psychotic dystopia in which going around armed and prepared to kill is normal. There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest of us from these people.

Let's just have a dash of perspective: while every murder is tragic and one too many, you have far more likelihood of dying in an accident at work in the UK than being murdered. More people die whilst playing football each year than are murdered. The number of murders in London last year, which if one believed the press was the biggest bloodbath in our history, was lower than that for every single year between 1990 and 2008. Homicide rates per head in the UK were higher in 1900 than they are today. Furthermore, the vast majority of murder victims are killed by someone they know; the chances of being killed by a stranger, as seems to have been the case in this tragic event, are vanishingly small. I'm not saying don't be vigilant or that everything in the garden's lovely, but the garden isn't as full of snakes and boobytraps as this event seems to have made some people feel.

rendelharris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's just have a dash of perspective: while every
> murder is tragic and one too many, you have far
> more likelihood of dying in an accident at work in
> the UK than being murdered. More people die
> whilst playing football each year than are
> murdered. The number of murders in London last
> year, which if one believed the press was the
> biggest bloodbath in our history, was lower than
> that for every single year between 1990 and 2008.
> Homicide rates per head in the UK were higher in
> 1900 than they are today. Furthermore, the vast
> majority of murder victims are killed by someone
> they know; the chances of being killed by a
> stranger, as seems to have been the case in this
> tragic event, are vanishingly small. I'm not
> saying don't be vigilant or that everything in the
> garden's lovely, but the garden isn't as full of
> snakes and boobytraps as this event seems to have
> made some people feel.

More people do not die playing football each year than are murdered. Not sure if you mean globally or Uk but not true either way.

Charles Martel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sue Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Charles Martel Wrote:
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > >
> > > Regardless of how you may feel East Dulwich
> is
> > > obviously not safe....... Nowhere in London
> is
> > > safe.
> >
> >
> > Nowhere anywhere is "safe" then.
> >
> > If a tragic incident happens somewhere, that
> > doesn't make the area "unsafe".
>
> Dennis Anderson was brutally murdered in our high
> street for the most trivial of reasons. His
> killer is still at large, armed and dangerous.
> There is a murderer on the loose so why would
> anyone feel safe?
>
> This crime fits the same pattern as many others
> where a random, seemingly trivial argument between
> strangers leads to an act of extraordinary
> violence. The reality is there are people who
> have created their own psychotic dystopia in which
> going around armed and prepared to kill is normal.
> There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest
> of us from these people.

At any one time there's probably a number of murderers on the street - if that gets to you it becomes difficult to live in society.

Edit: what I mean is I could not go out for fear a brick will fall from a tall building and hit me.

One of the worst crimes I remember was in Clydach, Swansea - and whether that perpetrator is caught now is still questioned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 12, 08:45am by JohnL.

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> At any one time there's probably a number of
> murderers on the street - if that gets to you it
> becomes difficult to live in society.
>
> Edit: what I mean is I could not go out for fear
> a brick will fall from a tall building and hit
> me.
>
> One of the worst crimes I remember was in Clydach,
> Swansea - and whether that perpetrator is caught
> now is still questioned.


Yes exactly.

Serial killers Fred and Rosemary West weren't caught for a long time. They lived in a village in rural Herefordshire.

To say we should all be living in fear because we live in London is absolute bollocks.

This was an appalling tragedy, but sadly appalling tragedies are not confined to any one place, because human nature is the same everywhere.

If you want to go and live in a hut in the middle of nowhere so that you don't have to be around people who might murder you, then that's up to you, Charles Martel, but please don't use this forum to spread your fears to everybody else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 12, 09:33am by Sue.

Charles Martel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sue Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Charles Martel Wrote:
> > ---------------------------------------------
> The reality is there are people who
> have created their own psychotic dystopia in which
> going around armed and prepared to kill is normal.
> There is absolutely nothing protecting the rest
> of us from these people.


That’s been true for millennia, and there’s never been anything to protect from such terrible, tragic, random acts of savagery that take an innocent life. What exactly is your point?

A lot more good stuff happens than bad, it's just we focus on the bad. This seems to be a highly unusual incident and on the face of it doesn't fit easily into any 'typical' scenario. To attempt to draw conclusions about the incident to make general points about locale etc. is, at best just too early, and at worst plainly wrong. We can agree it's a tragedy and appalling, but other than that speculation is simply wasted effort.

What we perhaps do need to do is to reassure others who have been impacted by this and become fearful that what has happened isn't any norm.

It is possible that the perpetrator does suffer from some long-term or temporary mental imbalance - and we do know that services to support those with mental health problems are sadly wanting everywhere; but at the moment even this is simply speculation - it's just difficult to think (or want to believe) that it's the action of a wholly sane person.

Please do stop with the mental health speculation!

hellosailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> More people do not die playing football each year
> than are murdered. Not sure if you mean globally
> or Uk but not true either way.

Well, are you going to tell the British Medical Journal that or shall I? Odds of dying playing soccer 50,000:1, odds of being murdered 100,000:1. [www.bmj.com]

Sounds unlikely I know but anecdotally in my life I've personally known three people who've dropped dead during sports activities (1xsquash, 2xfootball) plus a boy in a school I taught in who died from a heart condition while playing football; I've never been acquainted with anyone who's been murdered.

I'll admit to feeling less secure knowing that this man has not yet been arrested. Is there even a description? CCTV? It feels odd that there has been so little information shared about the suspect. Perhaps there are reasons for that, I know nothing about police procedures. I was at Finsbury Park tube station the night Jonathan Zito was killed and it was the most shocking thing you can imagine. Everyone knows random murderous attacks are very rare but that doesn't mean it isn't disconcerting when it happens on your doorstep.

This thread isn't helping anyone. It's just ghoulish speculation and this forum at its worst.

edcam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread isn't helping anyone. It's just
> ghoulish speculation and this forum at its worst.

I disagree. The thread might not be helping anyone, but do all threads on here have to "help"? At the very least it is a place where people can express their sorrow and condolences.