Dogs in Peckham Rye

[Don Quixote]

I know I am entering a minefield here - but I genuinely don't know what I think so I thought the forum would give me some food for thought.

Whilst walking on Peckham Rye recently a number of dogs not on leads have come up to me whilst I have been jogging. I don;t mind dogs, but I would say I am wary of them and when a big dog runs up to me I guess I feel uncomfortable. Equally leadless dogs have approached my son and me whilst we walk in the Rye - my son is extremely scared of dogs and this causes him great concern.

Often the owners apologise that the dog has come too close, call it to heel and no issue.

However, I have been told on several occasions: "He's fine", or "she won;t bite" or even "stay still if you react he will think you are playing." In other words I seem to be somehow in the wrong for reacting in a way which is not totally pro-canine. Although I am polite, to avoid a scene, my thought is "How do I know it won;t bite - and there's a first time for everything!!"

I totally respect the need for dog owners to be able to exercise their dogs - but I feel my right to walk through the Rye with my family and not have to interact with other people's pets is also worthy of respect.

What do people think?

[Pickle]

I'm quite scared of dogs, and do find it really unnerving when a big dog comes bounding towards me in the park. From years of using the parks I know that 99.9% of the time the dogs ARE totally harmless, and most owners are pretty good at ensuring the dog stays with them, or comes when called, when they're off the lead. For the benefit of my kids, who I don't want to be scared of dogs, I tend to make conversation with the owners which usually results in the kids being able to pat the dog - so a nice outcome, and I know almost feel like I "know" some of the dog owners as we tend to use the park at the same time and pass each other often.

However there are a couple of people I encounter regularly on the Rye walking dogs (not sure what breed they are, but from my uneducated view maybe some kind of staff/bull terrior type dog) who are never on leads. These dogs, one in particular, are really aggressive towards other dogs and on a number of occasions I've watched the owner of it struggle to regain control as it launches itself at another dog. While I've never seen them bother a person, the behaviour this dog shows towards other dogs is really scary and I really don't think it should be allowed to roam off a lead. There are times I've been at the duckpond and the dog appears, the owner hasn't even been in sight of it.

So a tricky one - I think the majority of dogs are fine off leads as long as the owner has full control and is courteous in terms of other people - however a small minority of dogs should definitely be on leads. Somehow I don't see a "please keep your dog on a lead if it's aggressive" sign working ;-)

[Huggers]

Hi Don, you are probably being approached by young inquisitive dogs rather than aggressive ones . When my dog was young he sometimes ran up to joggers or other people and if they shouted or flapped he thought it was a game and would bark, which made it seem worse though he 'meant no harm!. I felt very ashamed and would often bluster on about 'playing' to mask my absolute lack of control over my furry friend.

I think maybe this is why the owners try and reassure you- which immediately feels quite sinister I know. Its just that an excitable reaction just overexcites these dogs more.

It took a lot of training to teach my dog to find me more interesting than a running person but it was important to do so because harm is in the eye of the beholder and its intimidating if you don't know the dog. We all want to use the park in peace with eachother. So it's important for people to train their dogs to come back to them or have them on a long line until they do.

If its any consolation it's also very annoying to some of us dog owners when our dogs are torpedoed by an unsupervised young dog with an owner miles away chatting on their mobile phone, especially owners of elderly or rescue dogs.

[LegalEagle-ish]

I was talking to another dog owner this morning whilst walking my dog and couldn't beleive it when she said people are scared of her fluffy, playful tiny little dog, until I saw a few kids scream and run away from her dog. I have a big bull breed dog and he has learned to ignore most people because of their negative reactions, but this little dog was really friendly and wagged up to people.

I am amazed that anyone could have considered it scary as it is so small and fluffy, no bigger than a babies teddy bear and the owner, who is a Northener like I am, said this reaction only happens when she is visiting her friend in Dulwich. I have also noticed than when I am out of Dulwich, people come up to my very placid and friendly bull breed dog and ask to pet him which he loves, but as soon as we are in Dulwich, people act scared of him, even when he is on a lead.

I do not know why this is the case, but I think that the people who fear dogs need to do something about their irrational fear rather than calling for perfectly harmless dogs to be restricted (whcih I know no-one has said yet, but will no doubt very soon).

If someone is irrationally phobic of hights or spiders etc, you wouldn't demand that all buildings become one story, or we round up all the spiders, you would tell the effected people to use some kind of therapy to overcome their phobia. I stand more chance of being mauled by a vicious dog than a non-dog walker, because a vicious dog is more likely to attack my dog and I would be compelled to protect him.

It would help if people who are irrationally scared of dogs took time to understand dog behaviour and body language if they want to overcome their fear, because it is very easy to tell the difference between a friendly dog and one that is about to attack you.

[sophiesofa]

I'm scared of dogs (even when I'm not in East Dulwich LeagleEagle-ish ;-)) and it does annoy me when dog owners say things like he's only playing and don't really do anything about it i.e. call their dog away from me. I don't stand their and cower, I do try and just ignore them but I don't like it one bit. But I do understand that it's kind of my problem and I don't think all dogs should be on leads or anything but some owners really do need to be more aware of their furry little/big terrors.

[olski p]

People have the basic right to enjoy the park without being bothered by dogs (or even other people!). We have an 8 month old labrador who will run up to people and other dogs - though she is getting much better with training and age. I think it is absolutely right that dog owners should immediately control their dog and move them away from people unless the stranger show a willingness to interact with your dog (and they often do if you have a good natured dog). It is unreasonable for dog owners to expect everyone to share their love for dogs and non-dog people will often not be too bothered if you bring the dog under control and move it away quickly. Having said that, my girlfriend did encounter one stupid girl who ran into the middle of the road when my girlfriend was walking our labrador (then just 4 months old!) down the pavement. There will always be idiots who who completely over react and as a result put themselves and others in danger. All I would say is make sure you have pet insurance with liability cover because you never know.

[Brendan]

LE your post basically translates to, ?I have a dog therefore everyone else should just deal with what I choose to do and feel the way about it that I do.?

Not all dogs are as soppy as yours and not everyone is comfortable around animals which do have the potential to hurt them very badly.

It is the responsibility of a dog owner to make sure their dog doesn?t harass people, not the other way around.

It?s just good manners and respect for the people you share your neighbourhood with.

[first mate]

As a dog owner I agree that people need to take the time to properly train their dogs so that they don't go running up to people/children they don't know and jump all over them.

Dog aggressive Staff types are likely to be more of a menace to other dogs than people and we all wish they were not in the hands of the irresponsible owners that make them the way they are.

Unfortunately there are those who dislike all dogs and who would like to see dogs banned from parks or kept on a lead at all times. The problem with this is that the majority of law abiding council tax payers, with harmless, well trained pets will be heavily penalised and those who don't give a darn will continue to exercise their dogs off lead and probably get away with it too. The same minority that let their dogs defecate everywhere and don't pick up and let their dogs wander the streets offlead. I would hazard a guess that such types also disregard speed limits, litter the streets with broken glass, chicken bones and gum and generally care little for the wellbeing of the community.

[RyeGal]

I am a dog owner who 100% agrees that dogs should be well trained and have a good recall to avoid such situations that have been discussed.

I own a Staffy, he is nearly 11 years old and suffers from arthritis, He is mainly kept on lead due to this.

I have had a few incidents where other dog owners allow there dog to run full pelt up to me and my dog, barking and snarling at him.

On one occasion, 2 dogs ran up on us and as a result I was bitten by one of these dog's(could not identify which one as they look similar)

I told both of the owners what had happened and neither seemed bothered.

Same dog as before, One morning last week (Quite early), A Dog ran up barking and growling, I shouted(The owner was not in view) for the owner to get his dog under control, to be told by the owner that his dog only re-acts like that as my dog is on a lead!. This is not the first time he had told me that and I asked him, why then, did he not put his dog on a lead to avoid this situation if he knows that!

I explained that his dog had been one of the 2 that may have bitten me previously and that when I went to the hospital the DR wanted details of the dog that had bitten me. The owner laughed and said' Oh yeah, because when they know you have a staffy, they are really going to take that seriously' He told me that my dog was aggressive as he is never off-lead and he also didnt believe that my dog had arthritis!

Obviously this Ignoramus thinks its my fault that his dog is out of control as I have the staffy and they are obviously all vicious dogs.

I am so angry and now I can not enjoy my early morning walks with my dog as Im scared I will bump into him and his dog and that this will happen again.

Through these incidents, my dog is becoming very wary of other dogs now approaching us, but hey, if someone repeatedly came running up to me and shouted in my face, I think I would re-act in a negative manner.

Sorry for the very long first post, But I really had to vent! Thank you

[Huggers]

Hi Ryegirl, I sympathise with you heartily as mine is kept on lead around younger dogs as they make him anxious as they do not understand/listen to his 'I'm not into you' signals and can be very harrassing. To stop him feeling more wary about it I make sure I am 'the protector' who tells these dogs to go away so it's not his problem, while walking calmly away from them. But to the owners I am a woman telling their darlings to b****er off and they can't understand why. But I am taking the responsibility that they are not. One day their 'darling' could run uninvited into the jaws of something a bit more hostile and then it will be too late.

[RyeGal]

Huggers, Its really sad that we have to do this, when all we want is to have an enjoyable walk around the park. I choose to walk in the 'on lead' areas, where Im surprised by the amount of dog walkers in SE15/SE22 who cant seem to read! Some dont even fetch a dog lead with them to the park!

I feel I must add, It is now because of these inconsiderate people, that on some occasions, my staffy falls into the dog aggressive stereo-type that staffies have. But, it is all a front with him and he does have a doggy social life and lots of friends that he plays with(Arthritis permitting).

To all dog walkers/owners reading this, Please ask yourself why a dog is on a lead before letting your off-leaded dog run over.

[Cassius]

"If someone is irrationally phobic of hights or spiders etc, you wouldn't demand that all buildings become one story, or we round up all the spiders, you would tell the effected people to use some kind of therapy to overcome their phobia"

A fear of dogs is surely NOT irrational. These fears cannot really be compared to a fear of dogs. Dogs have been known to attack human beings, therefore it is only sensible to show caution when an unknown dog approaches.

[James]

Some people have been known to attack people as well cassius, so should they be on leads as well?

[SeanMacGabhann]

people who attack people are criminals James - dogs don't have that capacity

As you know - I'm guessing you were being cheeky

[Huggers]

Dogs have been domesticated for millenia because of their affinity with human beings and are not instinctively hostile like say lions, nor regard us as prey, roaming round parks looking for victims. We do not have wild packs like you would find in India- which are of course very scarey and unpredictable. Not for nothing is the dog known as Man's Best Friend.

Even the demonised staffie is sometimes called the 'nanny dog ' because of its protectiveness towards children.

Cliche I know, but bad dogs are the result of bad- or stupid negligent people The likeliest victims of such dogs are their own owners and owners children or neighbours, and the likeliest venues are their own homes as we so often read about in the paper, or ....those protecting their own dogs.

in the park are pointers to good dog husbandry . Has the dog got a Collar, is it with someone, is the owner paying attention. The very fact the dog is being taken for a walk is a sign that it is cared for and has a structured life.

I once threw a ball for my dog that landed at least twenty feet from a woman who then, as the dog collected his ball, began to scream and shout at him, catching his attention so that he went over to have a look. She then threw all her shopping at him and so he barked at her and he was very scared. Nowadays he would be too laid back to take notice, but here was someone who's very fear of dogs actually made them a focus of attention to a dog who might even see her actions as an attack.

[ratty]

Dogs scare me now I have a child and I get nervous when I am in the park with him and dogs are off the lead. fact.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Huggers

how would that woman know you were a good or bad owner and consequently if that was a good or bad dog?

[Huggers]

well Sean, I don't think she was making a judgement,-and I certainly I understand your point about people not being able to do that when they are in a state of terror. she was acting on her phobia but then her noise and flapping actions in reaction to her hysteria to a dog were the equivalent of calling it to her. To be fair, I think she was probably mentally ill.

I had to reassure her and call the dog (who was mesmerised), both of which were very difficult under the unslaught of her shopping and shouting.

I suppose the equivalent would be if I saw a group of youths in the distance and started to scream and They came over to see what was going on. Which made me scream more. I am making an assumption about a group of youths and my reaction - which brings them over- then reinforces my assumption. Unfair assumption, but genuine terror .(this is hypothetical, I dont actually do this)

The best thing to do if you are scared of dogs is to ignore them, which of course is the hardest thing to do if you are feeling scared.

I realized that my dog could get freaked out by freaked out people and needed to get used to the strangeness of others and ignore other people, whatever they were doing...and most importantly to come back to me on command.

Edited to add- I'm not the only one to have had school children coming up to my dog when I am walking him on the lead in the street and screaming in his face 'aaagh a dog'. Dog phobia being passed from parent to child. And if it was a dodgy dog- would that be the most sensible thing to do? Eventually it must become a self fulfilling prophecy if you scream in the face of enough dogs ...

[oldnewromantic]

For anyone who wants to do something about irresponsible dog owners (notice I'm focussing on the owners not the dogs), PM me and I'll give you some e-mail addresses to complain to.

I teach my children that dogs on leads are with responsible owners, but pitbull types (you know the ones) not on the lead because 'they're my baby init' I teach them to beware of.

Sound reasonable?

In return I would ask dog owners to not let their dogs into children's play areas, and keep them on a lead if a sign says so, and pick up the poo wherever they do it.

Sound fair?

Thank you

[bonniebird]

I walk on the Rye every day with 2 very small dogs. My dogs attract loads of attention from children on almost a daily basis. I don't have any children myself, but I am very aware that some are frightened of dogs as are some adults. If a child wants to stroke my dogs, I pick them up and get down to the level of the child and talk to them answering any questions they ask. A majority of children ask before they touch my dogs and I always thank them for that, some of them come running over so loud and so fast that they frighten my dogs and the parents are very laxadasical about stopping them :'(

I took both of my dogs to training classes and the youngest one got her Bronze Kennel Club Good Citizen award which made me very proud indeed :)) She got fed up with the classes after a while, so we didn't go on to the silver and gold awards. I always call them to heel, if I think someone is frightened of them, or they go to close and I make a really huge effort with all the children, even though I am not a "kiddy person", I like it when kids and dogs get along. Dogs are wonderful creatures and they give us so much, but if you are frightened, you should maybe try to overcome your fears starting with small dogs so as not to pass it on to your little ones. My sister is an arachnophobic, but my neice is not because she tried not to freak out in front of her whenever a spider passed by, its harder with dogs, I know, but this is an example.

I would be only to happy for Don Quixote or ratty to talk to me and my girls in the park if it would help? I think all potential dog owners should have to attend training classes by law, because a hell of a lot of people don't know anything about the breed they are buying or what to do with it, or

sadly how to treat it. There are some idiots out there walking there dogs, but a majority of us do pick up after our dogs (I don't wanna tread in poo either) and we do train our dogs and thoroughly enjoy walking in the park and meeting people, and we are considerate to other peoples feelings.

I am sorry that some of you have encountered the irresponsible owners and havent had a positive experience with dogs that we enjoy :'(

[bonniebird]

oldnewromantic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> For anyone who wants to do something about

> irresponsible dog owners (notice I'm focussing on

> the owners not the dogs), PM me and I'll give you

> some e-mail addresses to complain to.

>

> I teach my children that dogs on leads are with

> responsible owners, but pitbull types (you know

> the ones) not on the lead because 'they're my baby

> init' I teach them to beware of.

>

> Sound reasonable?

>

> In return I would ask dog owners to not let their

> dogs into children's play areas, and keep them on

> a lead if a sign says so, and pick up the poo

> wherever they do it.

>

> Sound fair?

>

> Thank you

I'm so glad you are focusing on the owners and not the dogs:) and I agree, dogs shouldn't be allowed in childrens play areas, but, I am a responsible dog owner and I do have mine off lead because they are trained and they need to run and play. I also know what you mean about the irresponsible owners with there dogs off lead, having 2 little dogs I get worried if a dog thats not well trained and the owner don't have much control over etc, comes up to them :'(

[RyeGal]

oldnewromantic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I teach my children that dogs on leads are with

> responsible owners, but pitbull types (you know

> the ones) not on the lead because 'they're my baby

> init' I teach them to beware of.

>

I would just like to point out that it is not only the 'pitbull types' off lead that you should be teaching your children to beware of.

Any breed of dog with an irresponsible owner also has the potential to be dangerous.

[LegalEagle-ish]

I know my dog can look a bit intimidating, so I wasn't really talking about people's reactions to him being irrational or phobic. It was the response to one of the least threatening dog I've ever seen that I thought was a bit irrational and phobic.

My dog is soppy, but not always perfectly behaved, he has a thing for skateboard wheels, squirrels, rabbits, foxes and horses, but he's hetting better.

[SteveT]

Huggers wrote:- The best thing to do if you are scared of dogs is to ignore them, which of course is the hardest thing to do if you are feeling scared.

What would you do if you were attacked by an animal that you were trying to avoid, you made no eye contact, you were going in a different direction to, and in a calm manner?

How do you ignore the attack then Huggers?

The dog had no collar, and no owner anywhere in sight and it has been harrassing you for several minutes, what would you do Huggers?

My argument would be to have dog enclosures with-in a park where they are allowed off lead to run to their hearts content, but with a muzzle on. When they leave the dog park and enter the people park they are in a muzzle and on lead.

There are far too many of these macho dog owners who do not give a fig about rules and regulations, who get a feeling of power and excitement from intimidating others, all because they have inferiority complexes.

This has been the case for many years and nothing has changed to the benefit of the rest of the normal (none dog fighting) population.

[LegalEagle-ish]

So restrict all dogs cos you got attacked once?