Harris East Dulwich Boys' school

[cn150]

Does anybody know what this school is like? The building looks nice. It doesn't seem to have much outside space though. Do they do any sports in the park? Was the intake over-subscribed this year? Thank you

[yummumbums]

I think the best thing to do is to go and have a look yourself and make your own mind up if you check the website there are still some open days left in october if i remember rightly. I personally wasn't that impressed with it. The outside space is limited but they get buses to playing fields.

[BPAUL85]

There was an open day this evening an there is a open day on saturday morning i think

...and i'm sure they do sports in the park...it would be a massive flaw in the school if they didnt use the big green space a few yards acoss the road

[DJKillaQueen]

The big green space accross the road is a public space not a school playing field. The park does have allocated sports areas though with pitches and I know that Harris did sponsor some of the work in the park so it might be likely the school may use those facilities. But setting up for PE lesson after PE lesson on the common ground immediately opposite is not an option. It costs a lot of money to maintain grass and pitches.

[BPAUL85]

i thought that schools were allowed to use public spaces if given the ok...h&s etc. seems a bit of a waste if they couldn't use it! i thought that was the whole point...i didnt realise. that's crap, they have no outdoor space...well there's your answer, dont send your kids there, they'll get fat for sure....there's a fish a chip shop down the road too!

[James Barber]

Real dilemma. Harris East Dulwich Boys Academy is indeed opposite Peckham Rye Common. Peckham Rye Common needs drainage to ensure its pitches can be used throughout the winter - its often water logged and curreent users have to go elsewhere. Peckham Rye Common also has inadequate changing facilities but no one really wants a massive changing room sports complex built. Across the road Harris Boys has changing rooms a plenty. Harris Boys buses its kids to playing fields elsewhere.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that IF the boys school opened its changing rooms up at the weekend and helped fund drainage it should be allowed to use the football pitches in the week.

[first mate]

When the school was at the planning stages I thought that it had been made clear that there was never an intention that Harris Boys would use PR for sports. Many of us questioned this at the time, pondering how the school would manage with so little land of its own. At any rate, I was certainly under the impression that some kind of assurance had been given by the powers that be that PR would not be used as an extension of the school. Has this changed?

I know there will be arguments both for and against but I would like to put those aside as they were aired before the school was built. All I want to know is has there been a U turn on a promise that was made?

[James Barber]

Hi first mate,

No U turn. What i stated i also stated at the Planning Committee but the school was clear to avoid community disquiet it would bus it kids to playing fields out of the area.

[first mate]

James,

Thanks for your reply.

It does sound as though there will now be attempts to drum up support for the use of PR by the school, on the basis that it is silly not to use land so close by.

This does seem incredibly disingenuous when one of the main objections to the school, at the earliest planning stage, was that it did not have the necessary land/outdoor facilities to service the volume of pupils. As you know, many locals were worried that a later attempt would be made to begin to utilise PR for school sports, despite assurances that this would not happen.

I refer to this post by Muttley on 3/7/08:

I was at the meeting. At times it got quite heated and emotional (at least, among the members of the public).

The whole case seems to be founded on the fact that, in order to be viable, there has to be a five class intake, i.e. 150 per year group. This seems to be the conventional wisdom for schools these days. Personally I find it hard to believe that a school can't offer a great curriculum with just a four class intake, which would have brought the numbers down to under 800. I'd happily trade a more limited curriculum for more space. If you look at the building plan, there is almost NO outdoor space for the boys to play during breaks.

The second fundamental driver for the 950 total was that the school needs a sixth form to provide mentors for younger pupils. I can see the argument for this, though where Year 7s will get to see these sixth formers (other than along crammed corridors) is unclear.

It was reported that Tessa Jowell's own survey had revealed a majority of locals in favour of the school. I'm extremely cynical about this. The only fair way to assess local opinion would have been to hold a representative survey, asking specifically if people were in favour of a school for 950 (with pictures so that they could see what it will be like). I'm not aware of such a survey. Of course East Dulwich parents are in favour of a new school, but I suspect most people will be shocked when they discover the details.

Final point of note: it was clear from the meeting that there will be NO use of Peckham Rye for sport by the school (except perhaps for the odd special case). Boys will be mini-bused to other sports venues, including South Bank University (is that Burbage Road?) and the velodrome. The latter will offer 'exciting' opportunities for bike activities, apparently.

I don't think we've heard the end of this.

Edited to answer Phillyboy's question: This Academy will be linked to the Girls Academy on the other side of Peckham Rye. The sixth form will be joint, so some girls will occasionally go to the boys' site for certain subjects and vice versa.

I note the velodrome is under threat. Since this was quoted as one are the school would be using perhaps Lord Harris could fun the facility?

[dbboy]

We have a brand new school on what was a deralict old school site, that's got to be a POSITVE thing for the locality and environment. It further provides schooling for local children, Another POSITIVE outcome. It helps with reducing the environmental impact with less travelling needed to school. A further Positive. As the school has green space across the road (the Common and Park), is it not a sensible thing that the school chilren can use it for their sports, again a POSITIVE thing. Why the objection not to allow them to use it. Peckham Rye Commmon is common land, my understanding is as such it can be used by anyone, hence being called "common land".

Thirty plus years ago, I went to a local school on the other side of Peckham. We used Peckham Rye Common for our weekly sports lessons. At least Harris East Dulwich Boys' school is using common sense and to using local facilities.

I fail to see anything negative and much preper seeing a brand new modern building being used to teach local children, rather than an old victorian, burnt out shell of a building. I would have thought the neighbouring residents also prefer the former.

[first mate]

dbboy,

the point about the school, in its current incarnation, being a positive thing all round is moot.

My point is that some debate was aired about the use of PR prior to the school being built, because of local disquiet about that promises were made that use of PR would not be sought by the school. If PR is to be used it needs to be done with the full support of all in the community. As it is feelings are clearly mixed. The concern is that there was always an intention to use PR and certain promises were made to get the planning permissions pushed through with a view to slowly getting the use of PR once the school was built.

I do not feel comfortable with the park being used as an extension of the school. If the school starts to use the park for regular sports sessions then how is that managed in terms of health and safety etc..? If Lord Harris begins to fund areas of the park on a quid pro quo basis then who does the park really belong to and who will have the final say on its use? Right now its common land, I fail to see how that could continue if a school starts to utilise it for regular sports sessions.

[DJKillaQueen]

James has answered that question though that the school does not and will not be using PR anytime soon.

PR is also managed so that only allocated sports areas can be used, which is the common norh of the cafe and a smaller field behind the childrens playground at present. This year there are two junior pitches on the east side common probably because most of the smaller sports field is out of use because it needed reseeding and repair, and it takes time for the seed to grow. I know this because my Sunday football group play there and were asked to change from our usual location.

There is more demand for pitches than can be accomodated and maintainenece of those pitches costs more than the revenue raised from hiring them. A full sized pitch cost ?47 an hour I think.

So all in all PR would be unable to accomodate the level of use needed from the boys school even if they did pay for the maintenance in turn.

[BB100]

As I've said on this subject before, it would be over the headteacher's dead body if his kids use the park. They are not allowed to use it even to walk home and get detention if their caught.

They use the South bank for field sports, the pulse for swimming as part of the compulsary curriculum and Crystal Palace athletic stadium for competitions. They spend double the amount of time on sports in the compulsary school day than any other state school in the area - so BPaul85 they won't be getting fat as they are not allowed in any of the shops with their school uniform on either.

[loulou9999]

Gosh, I dont want to get into the debate about the lack of outside space and PR (although very interesting to read). All I can say from visiting the school is, first impression was ok but not much to see. Building is obviously great with lots of new facilities, head seemed more that capable, kids were polite, and class sizes currently small (which is a plus but I am sure will change as new boys come on board). When we visited, whilst the teaching staff were nice and helpful in answering questions, there are so few pupils that it was difficult to get any real feel for the school. It was like a ghost town walking around, we only got to see a few year 7 classes, and it would have been nice to see a few year 8 classes.

No OFSTED yet, no results to latch onto. Bit of a wild card, but we will at least be going back to the open day on saturday to have another look. Parents I met there were mainly of the same opinion but felt it was worth having a second look.

Hope this helps.

[sunbob]

Just a quick note. The area directly opposite the school is PR Park, which is council land not common land (ie they choose when to open it and lock the gates at closing time), the area a little way down the hill with no fences or gates is PR common, which is common land.

I hope all the school boys are settling in well to their new school (I think I have now got over the months of my flat vibrating from dawn till dusk when they were digging the foundations!)

[dbboy]

All sounds a bit of an over kill by the Head if this is true.

Are the rye and Park not both owned and managed by Southwark Council. Surely they are open to use by EVERYONE in the community? Which includes school children.

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I've said on this subject before, it would be

> over the headteacher's dead body if his kids use

> the park. They are not allowed to use it even to

> walk home and get detention if their caught.

[DJKillaQueen]

They are and they are open to use but not everything is free. Commercial organisations and sponsored groups pay for use of certain facitlities at the park....like sports facilities. A school I assume would come under that banner, just like the circus. And if nothing else, PR doesn't have anything like the required level of facilities needed to serve the school.

[BB100]

loulou9999 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No OFSTED yet, no results to latch onto. Bit of a

> wild card, but we will at least be going back to

> the open day on saturday to have another look.

> Parents I met there were mainly of the same

> opinion but felt it was worth having a second

> look.

Someone who went to the Head's talk told me 55% of the kids have gone up by 3 levels, so hardly a wild card if true.

[bonniebird]

This is going to be discussed at the next FOPRP meeting I think. We were assured at meetings in the past, that the park would not be used for the school kids. It is a park not a schools playground/playing field.

[ruffers]

I appreciate the moot point is that of whether use of the park is being kinda sneaked in although it does appear to me to have been answered. Having said that when I was a kid in Ashton Under Lyne our games lessons were often running and football in the park near school, with longer distances round the reservoir.

Probably done and dusted elsewhere (point me where if you like) but what's the actual problem if the park is used? If they pay for use of an area then it's down to the council to assign part of that for the maintenance etc I guess.

[Craig83]

What's the problem with the school using the park? Its not like there's not enough space over there eh? The people who are winging about it must be on the social anyway - why else would they be concerned with school groups using the park during working hours? What harm can they do its not as if teachers are going to be holding Burger King eating conferences over there and telling children to litter the place with half squeezed packets of ketchup is it? Quite the contrary. If your gonna live in nappy valley folks you gotta get used to the idea that you'll see kids having fun sometime even if it is in your beloved park.

And before anyone comes back with 'oh actually I'm self employed and when I'm not working intensely from my study with PR park views I like to selfishly immerse myself in school child free pastures' - take your easy job and do it in East Dulwich park with your laptop. You'll probably have a more pleasurable afternoon

[BPAUL85]

This is going to be discussed at the next FOPRP meeting I think. We were assured at meetings in the past, that the park would not be used for the school kids. It is a park not a schools playground/playing field.

- what? so it's OK for them to use it as boot camp for fatties? but not for school children? I bet you can't wait to drive to your meeting in your ridiculous 4x4 and discuss how to further infringe under privileged children! oh and by the way there is a circus in the park and not just gypsies before you start harking on about that!

[bonniebird]

BPAUL85 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is going to be discussed at the next FOPRP

> meeting I think. We were assured at meetings in

> the past, that the park would not be used for the

> school kids. It is a park not a schools

> playground/playing field.

>

> - what? so it's OK for them to use it as boot camp

> for fatties? but not for school children? I bet

> you can't wait to drive to your meeting in your

> ridiculous 4x4 and discuss how to further infringe

> under privileged children! oh and by the way there

> is a circus in the park and not just gypsies

> before you start harking on about that!

I don't own a 4x4 don't presume things about me, you don't know me and I don't want the park flooded with schoolkids, if Harris can afford to do up these academys then he should have the money to build them a play area. I like seeing children out with there parents after school, playing football, using the facilities i.e the skatepark and the adventure playground, but I don't want the park used as a school playground and I don't hark on about things, I have my opinions which I am entitled to, so don't be so rude.

[Craig83]

'Flooded' - so dramatic! You make out as if a plague is coming or something. Get real 'Bird they'll be children practicing physical education not an infestation set about ruining your idyllic stroll in the park. There are far greater things to be concerned about than who should enter PR park when you're at work - you do understand you live in London, where greenery is scarce - heaven forbid a park becomes a 'playground' - you're a right old barrel of laughs. Move to the Cotswolds if you want serenity

[BPAUL85]

> I don't own a 4x4 don't presume things about me,

> you don't know me and I don't want the park

> flooded with schoolkids, if Harris can afford to

> do up these academys then he should have the money

> to build them a play area. I like seeing children

> out with there parents after school, playing

> football, using the facilities i.e the skatepark

> and the adventure playground, but I don't want the

> park used as a school playground and I don't hark

> on about things, I have my opinions which I am

> entitled to, so don't be so rude.

I can presume as it's the East Dulwich Forum, not a court of law. Of course you don't have a 4x4 and i don't actually think there is a boot camp for fatties at the park either. I just think the objection to the school using the park is unfair. And of course you can you have your opinion, and in my opinion i wasn't being rude. Have fun at your meeting...they sound riveting! Sorry that was being rude!!