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The East Dulwich Forum
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messageBike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DipDap 09 February, 2011 09:53

Hi,

I was in a bike accident on Tuesday morning at about 8.55am just off the roundabout where Lordship Lane and Grove Vale meet. Just outside the Mind charity shop.

I'm after witnesses as I was at bit shaken up at the time and didn't ask anyone for their number etc (apart from the car driver).

The accident took place during the 'school run' so maybe someone dropping their kids off at Goose Green Primary school saw what happened and could provide a witness statement.

Many thanks,

Dani

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Pearson 09 February, 2011 10:03

Hi Dani,

Sorry to hear about your accident, unfortunately i can't help.

Maybe a little more information might be helpful to other though, bike/motorbike etc?
Hope your recovering fast!

P/

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DipDap 09 February, 2011 11:54

Hi P,

I'm mostly fine, just cuts and bruises and a dodgy knee.

I was on a push bike and was behind a car. We both left on the same exit (up Grove Vale) and immediately the car turned left. I was position just inside the car towards the rear and got hit and fell to the ground as the car turned left. I remember hearing several people around during the accident, I was shouting for the car to stop and I'm sure I heard others doing the same but I didn't actually speak to any witnesses so hopefully someone remembers this and can let me know what they saw.

Thanks for your concern!

Dani

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by granadaland 09 February, 2011 13:22

sympathetic to your injuries.
Why do you need witnesses?

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Pearson 09 February, 2011 14:14

granadaland,
Just a guess but the OP may wish to claim for insurance or pursue for dangerous driving?
Why do you ask?

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DipDap 09 February, 2011 14:41

Yes, it's for insurance purposes to repair my bike. The woman admitted liability at the scene, apologised, said she hadn't seen me and offered to pay for the damage to the bike. But has now gone back on that claiming she was not at fault. Just wish I'd got her admission in writing at the time, ah well, you live and learn!

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by granadaland 09 February, 2011 14:46

He may do.
original question still stands.

oh, there you go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2011:02:09:14:47:48 by granadaland.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Pearson 09 February, 2011 15:02

Dani,

A very helpful thread on the subject of 'what to do in the event of an accident'
Worth printing out and keeping for future reference.

[www.lfgss.com]


Best
P/

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 15:18

It's a pity the police weren't called (although you can still report it after the event). I had a similar accident but fortunately that driver did keep her promise to pay for repairs to my bike and was totally decent. It might be worth checking to see if any nearby buildings have cctv pointing towards the roundabout too.

Also was there damage to her car? That would help to prove your position in relation to her as she turned.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by computedshorty 09 February, 2011 15:49

DipDap.
I think that you might have typed this message in a confused state. The same as the woman driver who admitted it was her fault meaning that her car had struck you, but you were in a blind spot, even if you were alongside at that moment you would not have been able to see any direction indicator flashing as she now realised that you were undertaking.
This is what you wrote with my additions.

I was on a push bike and was behind a car. You were behind the car, We both left on the same exit (up Grove Vale) and immediately the car turned left. I was position just inside the car towards the rear You were undertaking and got hit and fell to the ground as the car turned left. I remember hearing several people around during the accident, I was shouting for the car to stop and I'm sure I heard others doing the same but I didn't actually speak to any witnesses so hopefully someone remembers this and can let me know what they saw.

The woman could if pressed by you to pay compensation claim from you that you caused damage to her car.


Any witness might not be in your favour.
Get well soon.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 16:14

Another question to ask though is if she was indicating to turn left.

On a bicyle you are always going to be to the under side of vehicles and will always be undertaking if traffic is moving slow. Drivers can not use the blind spot as defense. The onus in on the driver to check blind spots before any manouvre. If she had done that before turning left (as indeed I always do when driving) she would have seen the cyclist. Imo the driver is absolutely at fault.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by kford 09 February, 2011 16:18

Correct. Especially in bike/cycle-filled London.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by granadaland 09 February, 2011 16:44

Agree with computedshorty.
Drivers should check their blind spots.
But they also have to look at the road ahead for dangers.
that turning is an immediate left after the goose green roundabout, about 10 ft.
If one demands that the driver check their blind spot for cyclists, negotiate the left turn off the roundabout, check for pedestrians at the crossing, check for pedestrians crossing the road they are about to turn into, check their blind spot again...then that person is not a safe cyclist in my view.
one can't tailgate a car, sit on their inside rear wheel then try and undertake next to a left turn.
Us cyclists need to take some responsibility for due care and attention as well.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Ramble66 09 February, 2011 16:59

It's a difficult one. I cycle and drive around goose green roundabout regularly, often turning right onto grove vale from East Dulwich road. As the Tintagel turning is so close to the roundabout, if you've indicated left to come off the roundabout the indicator is usually still on as you leave and pass the turning to Tintagel, unless you manually cancel it. So if the driver had indicated correctly the chances are her indicator would have still been on. However, If the driver had used her mirrors whilst going around and then exciting the roundabout she should have been aware cyclist before he entered her blind spot. But the cyclist must have instantly started to undertake as he left the roundabout which is bad cycling, possibly presuming the left indicator was from her left turing off the roundabout.

Hope it make enough sense.

I always presume that a car from the roundabout could turn left up Tintagel, whether I'm a cyclist, driver or pedestrian.




Edited to say granadaland probably said it better, and to correct spelling.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was 2011:02:09:17:08:43 by Ramble66.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 17:01

I think you'll find that if a driver doesn't check blind spots before every manouvre they'll fail a driving test. There's no defence on that.

Driving does require attention at all times to everything going on around you (and that's true for all road users). Most accidents happen because drivers are not paying attention - they are poor drivers.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Ramble66 09 February, 2011 17:04

I completely agree DJ but that is a very stupid spot to start undertaking, unless you know for a fact the car isn't going to instantly turn left.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 17:06

X posted....

Yes Ramble.....cyclists need to be aware of possible dangers too but I'm guessing the cyclist didn't really have time to correct his/ her positioning. It's also possible the the bicycle came to be in an undertaking position because the car slowed at the last moment to make the left turn. We are talking about a split second thing over a couple of metres. The car driver should have been aware there was a cyclist close by long before the left turn.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Ramble66 09 February, 2011 17:10

Agreed. She should have been aware of the cyclist before exciting the roundabout.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by acumenman 09 February, 2011 17:35

I do try to be aware all the time of cyclists, but with the best will in the world they can and do surprise you being suddenly and instantly alongside very close to the car.

It is not acceptable to arrive suddenly on the nearside rear and expect everyone to know you are there, the only one who would know is the driver behind you.

If you had been stationary and the car overtook your position I would expect the driver to know your whereabouts, but not if you arrived on the scene when the car was already in position at the roundabout.

Ramble I must pop along to see what this 'exciting' roundabout gets up tobig grin

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by computedshorty 09 February, 2011 18:35

Unfortunately.
You have made a public statment I was on a push bike and was behind a car.on impact you had moved forward, Not inside the car, but between the car and the curb, as the next road off to the left is Tintagel Crescent a distance further along after the roundabout, there is a slight curve to the left this alters the vision seen through the rear mirrors giving no sight of anything to the left.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 18:40

So you look over your shoulder and check the blind spot before you turn/ change lane etc - that is a basic driving skill ignored by many drivers and the cause of countless lane changing and turning collisions.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DJKillaQueen 09 February, 2011 18:44

And for the car to lose the bicycle from the wing mirror, it must have been moving away from the kerb in order to make the turn. The driver 'assumed' there was nothing inside of the car. Whichever way you look at it the driver is at fault.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Ramble66 09 February, 2011 18:55

I almost agree but that turning is too soon for the cyclist to have tried to undertake. The chances are the drivers indicator was still on and the cyclist must have got on her inside very quickly. She must have been going quite slowly, and not accelerating away, this should have indicated to him that he should beware and that she might be turing. She had right of way.

She should have checked her blind stop agreed and for that she is in the wrong but he shouldn't have been undertaking at that point. Cyclists need to think as well and read the road.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by DipDap 09 February, 2011 19:09

Thank you all for your comments. Even those that offer an opinion as to what happened without having seen what happened!

I didn't write my previous post in a confused state as suggested. I simply did not include all the details of my account of the accident as I did not want there to be any potential for bias to any witness account.

Thank you for your various tips however.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by computedshorty 09 February, 2011 19:16

D,J.
How so you look over your shoulder wearing a seat belt?
This is a strange atatement:
The driver 'assumed' there was nothing inside of the car.
As was assumed there would have been Children inside the car as she was thought to be on the school run, with several children these hindering her view even if she were a contortionist.
If you move away from the curb you will bring into view a cyclist near to the curb.
Mind you I am only going by memory of sixty three years driving.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Pearson 09 February, 2011 19:17

I mean this in a kind way as cyclist etc...
and obviously we didn't see it happen so do not know the facts


But sometimes.... both parties can share the blame, non?

Or is that not how it works these days.
I mean i know 'legally' etc etc... but seriously.

The scenario being discussed above would appear
to me to be, both parties at fault.
Regardless of 'legal' rights and wrongs...
Just arguing over degrees of blame based on supposition etc

*waits to be flamed*

*edit to add* my point has nothing to do with the OPs accident.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2011:02:09:19:25:03 by Pearson.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Beulah 09 February, 2011 19:31

Why don't you go back to the scene the same time next week and ask around?
Perhaps some of the local shopworkers saw it?

Hope you heal up soon.
I was knocked off a couple of years ago whilst I was in a cycle lane by a left turning van that didn't indicate.
Sounds like some of the people on here would have blamed me for that.
I too forgot to get witnesses' names in the heat of the moment but the driver did eventually pay for the damage.
The threat of claiming off their insurance normally does the trick.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by binary_star 09 February, 2011 19:56

A bit late now, DipDap, but you may need in the future a very good post from a London cycling forum "What to do in case of an accident":
[www.lfgss.com]

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by Pearson 09 February, 2011 19:59

^ I beat you to it Binary ;]

Really good thread though and worth repeating.

messageRe: Bike accident - witnesses needed!
Posted by binary_star 09 February, 2011 20:03

Ah so you did lol, oops. What can I say, I'm very conscientious and read all threads thoroughly from top to bottom - especially your posts embarrased smiley

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