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The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your builder, plumber, electrician or carpenter?
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messageGreendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Tom Disco 15 April, 2012 20:30

Hi,

So i'm sure most you have heard about the space behind Dulwich Hamlet called Greendale.

I'm trying to get something going on there and I need all of you locals to help.

The land is leased by DHFC but owned by Southwark Council, so if we work together we could make something really special for our local community.

Including but not limited to:
Allotments, Green Energy Cafe, Chicken and Pig plots, Community Gardens, Learning Centre and a space for a "Therapeutic Garden", an outdoor garden space that has been specifically designed to meet the physical, psychological, social and spiritual needs of the people using the garden as well as their caregivers, family members and friends.

Please sign up, get in touch spread the word and lets get this land for our local community.

[www.energyshare.com]

PS. If you know of someone else running a similar project do let me know as a combined effort would be even better.

Regards

Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2012:04:16:07:50:53 by Tom Disco.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by jacks09 15 April, 2012 20:59

I've signed up! Feel free to message me with more info!

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by Anstergirl 15 April, 2012 21:06

Have signed up,!

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by computedshorty 15 April, 2012 21:13

Green Dale is as far as I know is a road and Rights of Way are in place. How do you think you can take or lease a thoroughfare.
Where is Greendale Gardens SE22 that is available?

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by Tom Disco 15 April, 2012 21:26

Hello,

Firstly thanks for signing up and secondly to "computedshortly" - Green Dale is a road, but Greendale Fields are behind the road. These fields are leased from Southwark to DHFC. They were refused planning for relocation of the stadium and the rebuilding or several astroturf pitches, a block of flats and a BMX track in November and the land now sits unused.

Greendale Gardens would be created by the project.

It's a massive space and just using a 1/5 of it would still be a great addition to the local community. I hope this answers your question.


computedshorty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Green Dale is as far as I know is a road and
> Rights of Way are in place. How do you think you
> can take or lease a thoroughfare.
> Where is Greendale Gardens SE22 that is available?

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by computedshorty 15 April, 2012 22:09

Hi Tom.

So Greendale Gardens SE22. Does not exist then.

You could have been more spacific by saying Greendale Fields is the place that is being spoken about.
I am sure that this project could come into being , but it is certain that you need help in your task.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by bailey.james 15 April, 2012 22:10

I have been walking there for my whole life! (16 years) So long as i can still walk my dog at what ever time i like over there i have no problems smiling smiley I would be happy to help look after any chickins as I help look after around 100 acouple of times a mounth!!!

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by Tom Disco 15 April, 2012 22:25

As I said in my opener, "Greendale" is fairly well known by the local's especially the keen green locals. Greendale Gardens SE22 is the name of the project. I wouldn't have posted online if I wasn't looking for help and interest on the project.

Please feel free to post any suggestions computedshortly.

computedshorty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Tom.
>
> So Greendale Gardens SE22. Does not exist then.
>
> You could have been more spacific by saying
> Greendale Fields is the place that is being spoken
> about.
> I am sure that this project could come into being
> , but it is certain that you need help in your
> task.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by Tom Disco 15 April, 2012 22:27

@bailey.james

Of course, whatever happens it'll remain open to the public. And chickens will play a part so volunteers will most certainly be needed in return for a supply of fresh eggs and veg.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by minder 15 April, 2012 22:49

The space behind the Greendale cycling/walking path has been there for years - overgrown and unused (just like the cycling path years ago). I grew up in Dylways just behind Greendales and skated, biked, ran around the hills here with my sisters and friends. Then they made the astroturf and it was used for kick abouts and football schools (my son went there for years).

I think now they have the boot sale there it seems to have become known. It's a bit of land that hasn't been kept good for years so if you can make something of it then good luck. I'm sure there's some kind of ownership thing going on with it though.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22attachment
Posted by computedshorty 15 April, 2012 23:17

Thank you Tom.
I can find the position spoken about, I pasted a picture of the Obsevatory in the grounds of Bessemer Lodge ( the Iron Manufacturer ) that was there before the area was built on, one of my sisters lived in Dylways backing onto the place spoken about. lower down I played there many years ago there was a Grotto with caves and a large pond. In the picture there is a Notice Board I think this is the place.

Attachments: bessemer-house-01621-750-352x221[1].jpg (27.4KB)  
messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by pipsky2008 15 April, 2012 23:26

Is this the land that the sunday car boot has started using?

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22
Posted by minder 15 April, 2012 23:37

Hi computedshortly - the photo you have pasted is great - the observatory on the left is now where Bessemer Grange Primary School is. The school is named after Sir Henry Bessemer, a great iron manufacturer many years ago and also has a ship named after him.

On the right of the photo you can see a man walking. To the right of him is where the land is that Tom Disco is talking about.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Sue 16 April, 2012 15:43

I've signed up and I'd like to be involved in whatever's going on, so please feel free to PM me.

I'd also be keen to have an allotment here in due course!

ETA: At least, I thought I'd signed up, but it's not showing my name as a supporter. Possibly I've signed up to something else from the same page? embarrased smileyembarrased smileyembarrased smiley

ETA: Oh - I had to activate it via an email link. Duh. embarrased smileyembarrased smileyembarrased smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was 2012:04:16:15:48:43 by Sue.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by jimmyay 16 April, 2012 20:43

it would be wonderful if that green area could be used properly by the community.


there is so much rubbish around the footpaths at the moment, it is a disgrace and whoever is responsible for cleaning the pathways etc (as well as those who drop litter) should hang their heads in shame.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by sillywoman 17 April, 2012 08:28

I've signed up. I love that we have what is essentially a field in the middle of our South London urban sprawl. To me that has massive value for the community & I'd be very, very sad to lose it so I hope any change of use would aim to keep (at least some of) the area's nature as open & fairly rough ground.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by shelly2106 17 April, 2012 14:20

Have signed up too, count me in!!!

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by edanna 18 April, 2012 08:14

Tom Disco, it sounds like a wonderful plan. It would be good to get in contact with Bessemer Grange primary if you haven't already. And who is the local councillor for that area?

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by jonco 08 October, 2012 15:19

Hello,

Does anyone know what happened with the person who started this thread? It sems to have run out in April and I haven't had any replies to the messages I have sent, nor to the ones I sent through the related energyshare website page.

There are some new moves afoot on this issue, and I will post again here soon!

Thanks.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Sue 08 October, 2012 15:28

I haven't heard anything either, though I signed up to the emailing list.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Tom Disco 08 October, 2012 21:23

Hey,

Been busy on other projects... Feel free to email me on tmreaney (at) gmail (dot) com or call me 07805903779

This is still under my observation but nothing concrete was ever set down.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by another annie 09 October, 2012 17:01

I must have missed this back in April when the thread started, thanks lepetitecho for bringing it up to the top again. This would be great, and like Sue I would be delighted if allotments could be included. Last time I looked I couldn't find a local (or not so local) allotments that was even accepting people onto their waiting list.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Alec John Moore 10 October, 2012 11:27

Hi

How about a community orchard or urban permaculture? Lots of support for the former and the latter could provide access to more people than if the land was sub divided into allotments. Would love to see allotments, too, by the way.

Alec

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Renata Hamvas 10 October, 2012 14:02

If anyone is interested, applications are currently invited for Cleaner, Greener, Safer funds.


[www.southwark.gov.uk]

Renata

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Tom Disco 10 October, 2012 18:47

Hi all,

I tried everything to make this happen and literally got dead ends at every step. 6 months of hard effort but nothing.

If there is new interest and councillors are interested then we can stat again.

Regards

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by James Barber 11 October, 2012 13:00

Hi Tom,
That land is owned by Southwark Council but leased to Dulwich Hamlets Football Club. The lease can only be taken back from DHFC if they offer it back or the council has a firm use for it. DHFC applied for develope this land for a new football stadium as the lease on their current one was coming to an end. Lots of interest in building on the current stadium for housing.
It took a real determined effort from the community to stop this set of dominos.
To create suggested gardens would be fab but take significant money and political will from ward councillors - its South Camberwell ward. One of the ward councillors is peter.john@southwark.gov.uk the council leader.

Hope this helps give some context Tom.
I'd suggest you create a Friends of Green Dale to develop ideas for the site and get it included in the Area Action Plan for the area which if you like is the development guide.

--------------------
Regards james.barber@southwark.gov.uk
07900 227366
Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by mynamehere 11 October, 2012 20:09

I think that Peter John should in fact log on here and explain some of the allegations put forward by campaigners for the Heygate area of Elephant and Castle.

My quotes are from campaigners for the Heygate. You are absolutely right, I do not know that they are true. Can I repeat them here? Mr John is an elected official. I am only saying he accepts lunches from developers and likes tall buildings.

These allegations cover in part the nature of buildings proposed, Mr John's cosy relationship with the developers including gifts that might be small: invites to the Olympics for one, but nonetheless should be explained:

Southwark Council has now sold around 12 hectares of prime public-owned land at the Elephant & Castle to Lend Lease. This is an area approximately the same size as Kennington Park. Following an article about Lend Lease's recent conviction for fraud and Peter John's gifts from the developer, local people are starting to ask questions about what the council is getting in return for its commercial interest as land owner?

And Mr John is on record as loving high building.

And its policy on tall buildings is clear: Southwark's leader Peter John recently announced that he 'unashamedly loves tall buildings' and his 'favourite place to visit was New York'. They can be 'beautiful and practical' he went on to say and looks forward to working with Sellar for more tall buildings along St Thomas Street. "If you come to me with an iconic tall building in the right location you will have my support; Southwark is open for business and looking forward to change".

[heygate.heroku.com]

I certainly do not want this piece of land in Southwark built on.

It's not easy to question Mr John and others making high profile decisions in Southwark. It is true that he and others were given their power at the ballot box for their campaign promises. The issue is are they acting on those promises in ways that bear close scrutiny. Are they spending our money, really investing it, for us in infrastructure technology planning architecture design that will bear the test of time. I don't think so. I think the people spending hundreds of millions so casually on landscape changing mega projects should show a tad more humility and reflection on their legacy.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Tom Disco 11 October, 2012 21:40

Hi James,

I have context already James.

I am aware of all of the information stated above. I did spend 6 months researching and talking to those in the know. I did in fact contact you several times and heard nothing back last contact was 16th April.

The substantial money needed is not as substantial as you may think, with the right design and the correct marketing of this project it could be almost completely funded by green energy projects and some crowd sourcing. Having 3 backers previously up for it but I was unable to get a single word from Southwark council.

I happy to meet with anyone to share details of the project I planned and thus move this forward again.

T

James Barber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Tom,
> That land is owned by Southwark Council but leased
> to Dulwich Hamlets Football Club. The lease can
> only be taken back from DHFC if they offer it back
> or the council has a firm use for it. DHFC applied
> for develope this land for a new football stadium
> as the lease on their current one was coming to an
> end. Lots of interest in building on the current
> stadium for housing.
> It took a real determined effort from the
> community to stop this set of dominos.
> To create suggested gardens would be fab but take
> significant money and political will from ward
> councillors - its South Camberwell ward. One of
> the ward councillors is
> peter.john@southwark.gov.uk the council leader.
>
> Hope this helps give some context Tom.
> I'd suggest you create a Friends of Green Dale to
> develop ideas for the site and get it included in
> the Area Action Plan for the area which if you
> like is the development guide.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by benmorg 11 October, 2012 22:01

Tom, could you just go ahead anyway without Southwark's consent? I think a lot of people would be glad to help out. Once something is up and running, Southwark might be inclined to support it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2012:10:11:22:02:42 by benmorg.

messageRe: Greendale Gardens SE22 - Community Space
Posted by Tom Disco 11 October, 2012 22:54

Hi,

I could go ahead with the permission of DHFC (the current lease holders) but that would take a miracle. It's unfortunate because it could drive business to DHFC. We wouldn't even need much planning permission as the structures would be moveable.

A gentleman has contacted me from here and has mentioned that there are people who want this and a group has been formed. As I said before I would be happy to sit and discuss.

T

benmorg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, could you just go ahead anyway without
> Southwark's consent? I think a lot of people would
> be glad to help out. Once something is up and
> running, Southwark might be inclined to support
> it.

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