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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 13:01

I agree. I won't be able to attend but do let me know how it goes. I'd be interested to know how the developers plan to carryout the work without disrupting the existing traders logistically. Its a positive sign that they've invited the developers to come along.

In the planning application, the developers said they are architects that decided to go into development and are a design led firm. Hopefully, their creative backgrounds will allow them to effectively communicate with other creatives and smooth over some of the misunderstandings.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by JohnL 13 November, 2015 13:34

Peckham Vision have now posted what I think they see as the issue - that future residents of the flats will complain and get venues shut - mentions Canavans who face the same issue too.

[www.facebook.com]

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 13 November, 2015 13:56

That was what I meant when I said it's not the right location for flats - being right on the doorstep of the Bussey. I take the point about flats being elsewhere around the venue, but most of those are not right on the doorstep. Maybe soundproofing the flats will work, but what happens in summer when people want to have their windows open?

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by nashoi 13 November, 2015 14:50

All a bit reminiscent of Imperial Gardens. I hope Southwark have cleaned up their act a bit since then.
[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 15:01

JohnL I think Jeremy spoke about that case yesterday. Have a look at the acoustics report. The insulation results are very good and exceed minimum standards for lab tested glazing and they are going above that glazing in total acoustic design. Lab testing isn't done by the acoustic consultant but is official lab tests widely known in the market.

Blah, Blah, also read the acoustic report. There is no natural ventilation via the windows- see the extract below.

6.5.2 Ventilation
The levels of noise at the site preclude the use of natural ventilation in any of the residences as
even acoustically attenuated trickle events will result in the internal noise criteria being
exceeded. Every dwelling will therefore be mechanically ventilated. The inherent sound
associated with mechanical ventilation should help to provide some beneficial masking of
noise ingress from outside.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 13 November, 2015 15:07

Thanks for pointing that out LondonMix.

Mechanical ventilation is what exactly? It's just a fan isn't it? And what that seems to say is that the noise of a fan will mask external sound?

In the heat of summer, that won't be enough to ventilate I think.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 15:10

Again, I'm not saying there is nothing to be concerned about (I've already listed my concerns elsewhere) but if you are really that worried about this application, I strongly recommend taking 1-2 hours and actually reading through the proposals and information (this isn't directed to anyone in particular). I know most people don't have the time but if you are going to spread information online about what you think is wrong, I think its important to at least invest that amount understanding what is going on.

If the community want a good outcome, engaging from an informed position is always necessary. That way you can actually influence the things that need to be changed rather than wasting community energy raising comments to Southwark and questions at the engagement event that can be easily dismissed by the council and the developer.

Make no mistake, it is very apparent Southwark back this application so objections need to be relevant and focused if you actually want to influence anything about the final outcome.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by DaveR 13 November, 2015 15:10

So now everybody's calmed down a bit, and actually considered the facts, some proper issues emerge that ought to be addressed during the planning process e.g. business continuity for existing traders, and soundproofing etc. to ensure future survival of the music venue. And the anti campaign as first launched and lauded here is exposed for the comedy spartist crap that (unfortunately) we've come to expect from everyone for whom gentrification is a dirty word. Ironically, largely those people who moved in to the neighbourhood during the first wave of gentrification i.e. when it was cheap, but now profess to hate the very thought, now it's expensive.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 13 November, 2015 15:17

Good point Dave. I just think, given that Rye Lane is a retail business area, that buisness space throughout the building would be more appropriate. Instead of flats there could be affordable office rental space. I'll admit that I don't know anything about rents and space availability in Rye Lane from a business perspective, so don't know if it's a daft idea or not.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 15:23

Blah Blah-- I don't know exactly what they have in mind for the mechanical ventilation. Probably a full HVAC system which is common in modern developments. Air handling units circulating fresh air into the building and removing stale are likely to be installed as part of the over all mechanical engineering plan system.

They aren't using the HVAC system for acoustic insulation though. They are saying the white noise these systems make (think about the quiet noise in an office building or NYC condo) as part of their mechanical action will help cover up some of the ambient noise from outside. Even without this though, the facade and glazing specification meet guidelines in terms of noise intrusion.

If someone made a noise complaint (let's say they are super extra sensitive), the council would have to come and measure the noise penetration. The requirements are not zero so as long as the systems work as designed the complaint wouldn't be actionable. The noise team actually bring very sophisticated noise measuring equipment with them. I've had to make a noise complaint in past!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:13:15:36:08 by LondonMix.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 15:34

Actually, most if not all of the properties have balconies so despite what the noise report states I suppose natural ventilation is possible. I'm not sure how the noise authorities would treat a noise complaint by someone who has the option for mechanical ventilation but chooses to open their balcony instead?

Anyone ever worked on an issue like this? That might be something to raise with the developer at the questions evening.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!attachment
Posted by ed_pete 13 November, 2015 15:49

Blah Blah - take a look at the attached. Actually a lot of the nearby premises on Rye Lane are commercial with residential above so they are hardly setting a precedent.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:13:15:50:15 by ed_pete.

Attachments: ryelane.jpg (239.6KB)  
messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Jeremy 13 November, 2015 16:01

Yep... flats above high street shops is the norm in London, I thought?

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by JohnL 13 November, 2015 16:09

I'm above commercial - you do get the odd mouse too - they climb walls smiling smiley

When I open my window the noise from Rye Lane is pretty loud - a family might not like it at all.
Being single I'm quite happy.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 13 November, 2015 16:28

Yeah, the acoustic report said that on the facade facing Rye Lane the traffic noise is so load you it overwhelm the sound of the music even on a club night! In reality the noise pollution from the trains and traffic will be so loud I doubt anyone in that building will ever open their windows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:13:16:42:58 by LondonMix.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 14 November, 2015 04:55

Interesting ed_pete. I wonder how people manage the noise in those flats?

I take your point about the ventilation Londonmix. I still think people like fresh air though. Maybe they will appeal to young people who won't mind the noise.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by PohSuan 17 November, 2015 09:23

Just seen this article.

[peckhampeculiar.tumblr.com]

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by edhistory 17 November, 2015 09:32

That's a really funny article.

Next someone will claim this will badly affect Peckham Woods.

The comments on Southwark's web-site are good for a laugh too.

Who is the beneficial owner of the Bussey Building?

John K

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 17 November, 2015 11:20

I imagine by now those running the Bussey Building have read the planning application so a lot of what they are spreading in social media is very cynical.

The last two paragraphs really nail it though. They simply don't want the vibe of Peckham Rye to change. They want the entrance to the Bussey to be hidden and feel underground because it's next to a butcher in a crumbling building.

Anyway, none of that will actually prevent the application going through. It's appropriate the developer speak to them at this community event before continuing on with the application but in light of the views expressed in the article I doubt there will be any meeting of the minds. The CLF oppose the application as a matter of principal rather than because it poses access issues or noise concerns (which have been addressed in the application).

I hope someone on the forum can attend the event this week and report back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:17:12:40:35 by LondonMix.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Help-Ma-Boab 17 November, 2015 13:04

On hold....apparently

[peckhampeculiar.tumblr.com]

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 17 November, 2015 14:44

I think it would be good if the developers met with the Bussey people and perhaps the council too. Maybe there's a solution in there somewhere for all concerned.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 17 November, 2015 16:31

They are meeting with thetas from the Bussey Building tonight.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!attachment
Posted by BrandNewGuy 18 November, 2015 08:52

And with hilariously crass comments like this one (admittedly it's on that forum of reason, Twitter), no wonder many people feel that the bIow-ins show no respect or perspective about a place that's been there for generations before them and will be there long after they've blown out to somewhere else. FWIW I'm more sympathetic to artists' studios than 'luxury' flats, but with friends like these...





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:18:08:53:33 by BrandNewGuy.

Attachments: Bussey.jpg (117.5KB)  
messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 18 November, 2015 09:15

I suppose the arrogance of youth is at play there.

Looking at the plans, I think the two levels bolted on to the top could be more sympathetic to the architecture of the rest of the building and I wonder how retail units in the passageway will work, as the Bussey use this as their entry point to club night with security at the end of it. I think those might be issues for them as well.

Still, at least the two sides are talking now.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!attachment
Posted by edhistory 18 November, 2015 09:30

The extra two floors are out of street sight-line.

More interesting is the Khan's overhang. One "person" owns both buildings?

The Rye Lane street-level frontage is "protected" and should not be used for Bussey Building access.

John K

Attachments: Overhang.jpg (115.8KB)  
messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Blah Blah 18 November, 2015 10:01

I'm not sure they are out of sight-line ED. If you are waking towards the building from the side street opposite they are clearly visible from the artists impressions. That's what drew me to it. Not that I ever look up there having said that smiling smiley Agree about the overhang. Are the same company restoring the Khan's frontage?

Do you mean the passageway is protected? Can't see how that is the case if it leads only to the Bussey courtyard, unless it's meant to serve only as access to the back of 133 Rye Lane?

So many questions smiling smiley

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by Jeremy 18 November, 2015 10:18

I quite like the proposed roof extension... yes of course out of keeping with the original architecture but that doesn't automatically turn me off.

The issue of access - maybe the security shouldn't be where it is, with people queueing in the street? Perhaps the queue should be contained within Copeland park.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by LondonMix 18 November, 2015 10:27

Blah, Blah-- the retail units in the alley are only 10 sqm so they are kiosks (i.e. customers won't be entering the premises just buying things from a counter type set up according the planning application. The larger retail units have their entrances on Rye Lane and the courtyard.

Also, the plans include widening the alley itself so that movement is more free in general.

I don't know how they plan to widen the alley or carry out the works though without at least temporarily restricting access. Did anyone actually attend the meeting and hear what the developers had to say on that point? I can see that justifiably being of real concern to those in Copeland Park and Bussey.




Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose the arrogance of youth is at play there.
>
>
> Looking at the plans, I think the two levels
> bolted on to the top could be more sympathetic to
> the architecture of the rest of the building and I
> wonder how retail units in the passageway will
> work, as the Bussey use this as their entry point
> to club night with security at the end of it. I
> think those might be issues for them as well.
>
> Still, at least the two sides are talking now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2015:11:18:10:30:53 by LondonMix.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!
Posted by ed_pete 18 November, 2015 12:41

I find the "overhang" curious and think it a feature of the elevation drawing and the fact the building is not square. I really do not think there is any intention to build over the top of Khans.
As regards the passage, I don't think it can be widened that much - proposed ground floor plans show the removal of the right hand wall (from Rye Lane) and presumably glass frontages into the ground floor units. Interesting to know the developers would retain access to Bussey/Copeland whilst the work is undertaken.

messageRe: luxury flats in rye lane, no more bussey - sign the petition!attachment
Posted by edhistory 18 November, 2015 18:21

Here's an extract from one of the Protected Frontages maps.

The document itself is interesting in its own right. It is the only Southwark Council document I have seen that bears the official Corporation Seal.

This may be because it is a legal de-rogation of an Act of Parliament.

Is there any lawyer here who can clarify this?

133 Rye Lane is fully a "Protected Frontage" (as is Station Arcade). I don't think the red line can be gerrymandered to provide a Bussey Building passage.

John K

Attachments: ProtectedFrontages.jpg (83KB)  
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