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The East Dulwich Forum
Coffee tastes best at... Blue Mountain? Caffe Nero? The East Dulwich Cafe?
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messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by DulwichFox 03 May, 2016 16:55

I don't care what it becomes..
I don't sit down to eat Pasta... Pizza... Burgers.. Fried Chicken.. Ribs... and all the rest of that sort of crap.

..So very unlikely I will ever use the place.. Whereas I use Londis most days..

DulwichFox.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Louisa 03 May, 2016 19:05

The loss of Londis will be detrimental to the neighborhood, and I've already discussed this with James Barber over PM who is looking into it. We have already lost a number of convenience stores over the years, and the former 7/11 site is absolutely crucial to the retail mix of the area. We do not need more restaurants. We have plenty already. I also do think that the M&S/Iceland situation has probably in some way influenced this change of use application either directly or indirectly. Once a precedence has been set, bring on the flood of applications.

Louisa.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by LondonMix 03 May, 2016 19:22

What are you talking about Louisa? There was no change of use for M&S! Its one supermarket chain taking over another supermarket chain.

The only change of use on that application concerns converting the office to residential units, which isn't part of the Londis application as far as I can see.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by NewWave 03 May, 2016 20:48

*Bob* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other places recently pronounced 'dead' also
> include New York, Berlin, Sydney, Paris, Madrid,
> Melbourne and so on.
>
> Two millennia of continuous capital civic
> evolution and I just happen to be born at the when
> they all die. Just my luck.


I'M sorry but speaking as someone who spent time in the late '70's and 80's in New york, It IS DEAD.
Ok, street crime is down, once no-go areas like Alphabet City ( I had a friend lived on Avenue A in the 80's when visiting you'd stay over rather than risk the junkies on the doorstep and the shootings at night) are now gentrified full of hip bars and resturants.
But Gone are the interesting places CBGBS, Mars Bar, Yaffa Cafe, Chelsea Hotel is being turned into an overpriced soulless 'boutique hotel'.
Gone are the quirky independent stores in the East Village, Ditto SoHO..now home to the likes of TopShop and H&M
I could go on and on.
Berlin is now going the same way.
The very people and shops that made an area interesting and dare I say it 'Cool" are being priced out
And in their place come psudo hipster bare brick oh so ironic 'we only play vinyl' hangouts.
I'm a city girl, always have been-I love the diversity, the edge the creative buzz of cities.
But soon I fear everywhere will be the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:05:03:20:50:07 by NewWave.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by *Bob* 03 May, 2016 21:34

My friends Dad says NYC was over in 67. Dead. You were too late.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Louisa 03 May, 2016 22:04

*Bob* my friends dad is probably dead, but I'm sure he would have said the same in 1929.

Louisa.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by *Bob* 03 May, 2016 22:39

It's a peculiar thing isn't it; to believe that for all the hundreds of years something has been in existence, the bit of it that just happened to coincide with a prime bit of your life just happened to also be the very time when that place was at its best, then all downhill.

A whole lot of teenagers these days are going to have to suffer their parents banging on about amazing squat parties in NWSomething. They will roll up heir eyes, just as surely as their parents did at the previous generation. Then they'll go on to do exactly the same. That's just how it works.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Mick Mac 03 May, 2016 23:29

Para 1 - true Bob.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by maxxi 03 May, 2016 23:43

The Londis devpmnt also includes a two storey extension along NCR to provide 4 two-bedroom flats. Like the M&S site it's an opportunity to shoehorn more luxury flats into the area.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by LondonMix 04 May, 2016 07:40

I remember they are planning to do a rear extension of the existing building across two levels, right? I think the use is already residential there though so its not a change of use. What's the precedent M&S is supposed to have created: buildings can be extended to create flats? Surely that was already the case and for Londis, they aren't changing the original height of the building as seen from LL are they? Can someone please re-link the planning application?

Anyway, I find the term luxury flats really loaded. Its just more housing. Its not like they are building One Hyde Park above the shop. London needs more housing so unless there is a good reason not to do the residential extensions, I'm supportive.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Jeremy 04 May, 2016 09:11

Pretty much every new residential development in London is marketed as "luxury". Of course, they are nothing of the sort.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by RosieH 05 May, 2016 15:25

Seabag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes but it's "more than something to sweat in,
> it's a tool for transformation"
>
> That's what Tamara's inspirational omni-channel
> sports retailer of the year, one to watch, award
> winning website will tell you. Even when you're
> paddle boarding in Witterings or mid-run on a copa
> cabana beach, not driving your 1970's VW
> convertible with your dog Ennis thinking of your
> global fitness powerhouse or going to the coffee
> shop on the paddle board

Ok, so I came back for this one. No lattes or bugaboos here, and I freaking love Sweaty Betty.

I'm spending all that money I saved on not procreating going surfing in Bali. There might even be a little yoga. And I'm gonna be wearing Sweaty Betty, baby.

And raising a cocktail to you all in your Decathlon gear.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by DaveR 05 May, 2016 17:32

DaveR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a bit lost now - is the argument that Sweaty
> Betty moving in will kill ED (or Peckham, or
> London) or that it will kill Lowestoft (presumably
> by moving into ED rather than there)?

DaveR, Sweaty Beaty in and of itself will make no difference. It's just another shop. But the process of high end chain wntrenchment will kill ED and yes even Lowestoft, indirectly, in time. Mark my words! Poor London neighborhoods gentrified get the high end chains and disappearing social diversity further enhancing the notion London is a country all by itself, which indirectly continues to damage outlying towns and cities (Lowestoft and Bognor etc) which are already poor and will just get poorer!!

Louisa.

I'm still confused. If Sweaty Betty is successful, how will that kill ED? And if it's unsuccessful, presumably it will be replaced by something that might be, so how will that kill ED?

I think the confusion might be semantic - does 'kill ED' actually mean 'make me and my friends cross'?

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by malumbu 05 May, 2016 19:23

I really liked Grace and Favour when it was a cafe. Back in the late 90s and early 00s it was a treat coming to North cross Road and using the slightly off-beat cafes there.

Shocked at what is has become but hey-ho rarely go there nowawdays in any case and quite like the plant stall (and family like the popcorn).

I also liked the salvage place but rarely bought things due to the cost and now seen its gone. And the charity shops are good. And the Cheese Block (as long as you set a limit on your spending). And that basement place that does music. And from the early 80s the dodgy tailor that sold Levis and kept porn mags. But no LL carpets.

Not really sure of the point of my post.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by DulwichFox 05 May, 2016 21:19

Don't worry about not having a Point... You have your Point and others have their Point..

..and a Point in every direction is the same as having no Point at all..

Voice. 'Hey. You've gotta point there.. '

Foxy..

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Positivity Rules 06 May, 2016 16:28

Has something awful happened? Has someone died??!? Has there been a mass disaster in East Dulwich!? A shop opened!? A new one? Selling gym wear!? OMFG!? How on earth will we cope???

And people who shop in said shop "may" have a takeaway coffee sometimes? Or "may" be so rude to have born a child and not only that, push said child in a pram!? Are you kidding!?!?? AND they do yoga to top it all off!? It's all so hideous!

On a serious note, I moved to East Dulwich a year ago. I absolutely love it. I have family here, my father was born here. I love it so much... until I see threads like this on this forum. I check into the forum just every once in a while to check in with any new developments in the area or to see if there is something I should know. But then I feel very sad to see people being so negative about something like a new shop opening! I'm sorry, but didn't the Sweaty Betty shop used to be a Deli? Because an artisan cheese and a tub of hummus are essentials, of course. Let's be honest, you can never and will never be able to buy all your essentials on a high street as small as Lordship Lane. However, as long as an area is clean, safe and friendly, whatever somebody's class, job, which schools their children attend, whether they make their coffee at home or buy it out as a treat once in a while, their preference of exercise gear (!!), isn't that surely the most important thing?

This forum gives me the impression that maybe East Dulwich isn't the warm and friendly area that I thought it was, so hopefully I'm wrong.

And just to be clear, Sweaty Betty have written on their blog their recommendations of their favourite places in East Dulwich:

[www.sweatybetty.com]

You'll see that includes a whole wealth of independent and local businesses as well as institutions we should be proud of (Picture Gallery, Horniman Museum etc.). So it's hardly ruining the area, is it?

Let's all calm down - I hear yoga is very good for that!

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by pato 19 May, 2016 14:23

LOvely! Now few women in Ed look pretty much the same...Thanx to sweaty bettysad smiley
and all just for an extra fiver..smiling smiley

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by rahrahrah 19 May, 2016 14:44

Positivity Rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has something awful happened? Has someone died??!?
> Has there been a mass disaster in East Dulwich!? A
> shop opened!? A new one? Selling gym wear!? OMFG!?
> How on earth will we cope???
>
> And people who shop in said shop "may" have a
> takeaway coffee sometimes? Or "may" be so rude to
> have born a child and not only that, push said
> child in a pram!? Are you kidding!?!?? AND they do
> yoga to top it all off!? It's all so hideous!
>
> On a serious note, I moved to East Dulwich a year
> ago. I absolutely love it. I have family here, my
> father was born here. I love it so much... until I
> see threads like this on this forum. I check into
> the forum just every once in a while to check in
> with any new developments in the area or to see if
> there is something I should know. But then I feel
> very sad to see people being so negative about
> something like a new shop opening! I'm sorry, but
> didn't the Sweaty Betty shop used to be a Deli?
> Because an artisan cheese and a tub of hummus are
> essentials, of course. Let's be honest, you can
> never and will never be able to buy all your
> essentials on a high street as small as Lordship
> Lane. However, as long as an area is clean, safe
> and friendly, whatever somebody's class, job,
> which schools their children attend, whether they
> make their coffee at home or buy it out as a treat
> once in a while, their preference of exercise gear
> (!!), isn't that surely the most important thing?
>
> This forum gives me the impression that maybe East
> Dulwich isn't the warm and friendly area that I
> thought it was, so hopefully I'm wrong.
>
> And just to be clear, Sweaty Betty have written on
> their blog their recommendations of their
> favourite places in East Dulwich:
>
> [www.sweatybetty.com]
> e-to-east-dulwich/?__ja=tsid:65551~cgn:20160506Eas
> tDulwichUK~kw:swbetty.258522&utm_source=responsys&
> utm_medium=eml&utm_campaign=20160506EastDulwichUK
>
> You'll see that includes a whole wealth of
> independent and local businesses as well as
> institutions we should be proud of (Picture
> Gallery, Horniman Museum etc.). So it's hardly
> ruining the area, is it?
>
> Let's all calm down - I hear yoga is very good for
> that!


This forum is far from representative of the area (in fact most of the regular posters don't live here). Internet forums in general bring out the worst in peeps. Don't think it's any reflection on real life ED.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Otta 19 May, 2016 14:57

RosieH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And raising a cocktail to you all in your
> Decathlon gear.


I suspect the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference without checking the label.



Or give a shit either way.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Otta 19 May, 2016 15:15

Surely most people that are serious about sport / exercise prioritise comfort and practicality before style? (not that they don't want to look good too, otherwise why bother in the first place).

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by pato 20 May, 2016 21:53

...to feel good Otta...

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Otta 21 May, 2016 13:04

Part & parcel.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by *Bob* 21 May, 2016 13:20

I confess!

I like fancy joggers.

I never jog.

Lord have mercy upon my soul.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by SueV 21 May, 2016 16:27

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:05:21:16:27:48 by SueV.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by jacks09 21 May, 2016 17:23

Otta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surely most people that are serious about sport /
> exercise prioritise comfort and practicality
> before style? (not that they don't want to look
> good too, otherwise why bother in the first
> place).

Why are you assuming they aren't comfortable and practical? Maybe p, just maybe they are functional and reflective of current gym style.....

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by Otta 21 May, 2016 18:46

I am not assuming anything, nor could I actually give a shit either way.

I just suspect that a lot of people doing yoga or gym or whatever won't have the look and style as their top priority.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by indiepanda 22 May, 2016 09:15

Otta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not assuming anything, nor could I actually
> give a shit either way.
>
> I just suspect that a lot of people doing yoga or
> gym or whatever won't have the look and style as
> their top priority.

Not top priority maybe, but especially if you aren't feeling that confident about your appearance, having some decent kit can help.

Mind you, I am speaking as someone who used to get everything in Decathlon and have only recently progressed to buying last (or earlier) season Reebok stuff in T K Maxx. Not sure I see me buying full price Sweaty Betty stuff any time soon. (might venture in during the sale)

Has to be said the Reebok leggings are noticeably better than the Decathlon ones. The latter need a drawstring to stop them falling down and the Reebok ones have a nice deep waistband that stays up without needing to be tied on. And they do have a more interesting range of prints etc than the basic black Decathlon ones.

But to be honest, the only things you really need to spend money on sports kit wise is decent trainers (cheap often a false economy) and for a women a well fitting sports bra.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by midivydale 24 May, 2016 12:34

Having only read part of this thread (lunch break nearly up!) and realising that most of you have prob moved on weeks ago (need to venture to the lounge more often).

I just out of interest wonder about the Sweaty Betty/ Space Nk thing. If one is against Sweaty Betty as it attracts the coffee drinking, sun glass, pram pushing whatever else the description was then how is the targeted demographics any different for Space NK? Genuine question, please explain (not that you have to obv Lou, but as a fellow space nk lover I am genuinely interested). Having just returned from the Space NK on Liverpool St this morning, I genuinely wonder how a shop like that can be described as "serving the community"?

That argument seems flawed to me that is all, the chains of high end somewhat aspiring shops that are so detrimental to the community and our area, are indeed ok - if they are make up shops??? Or because it is a shop that you like?

I fail to see how Space NK would serve the community in any other way than Sweaty whats her name would.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by rahrahrah 24 May, 2016 12:47

A lot of people virtually live in 'active wear'. It's not necessarily just for going to the gym in.

messageRe: Sweaty Betty - the final nail in the gentrification coffin?
Posted by LondonMix 24 May, 2016 14:38

If any of you lot went to the local gyms around here you'd see that many people working out invest in high tech and/or fashionable kit.

If you work out a lot (5 days a week etc) then it probably becomes more rather than less important to you what your kit looks like as you spend a lot of time in it.

Gyms around here are also very social. People hang out with gym class mates outside of the gym so its an entire scene on to itself.

That fashionable gym kit is a thing (at all price points) is evidenced by Kate Hudson's very successful (affordable) line in the US and Beyonce's new line with H&M. Nice looking kit makes people feel better and high functioning kit (smart breathable fabrics etc) are more pleasant to work out in.

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