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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 16 February, 2017 09:02

Hi jaywalker. Thanks for the lrb link - I'll have a read when I get a chance later.

I disagree with your concerns about the 'secret state' though. The 'intelligence community' isn't perfect and requires oversight and regulation - but given the way the world functions it is needed.

I should think both the FBI and CIA are deeply concerned about Trump's own lax approach to security - as demonstrated by his antics at Mar-a-Lago at the weekend. The way he does business makes him a considerable risk to national security.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 16 February, 2017 09:28

I agree with you Jaywalker that leaks from the security services / permanent state, aimed at undermining an elected official are pretty alarming. Whilst I am far from a fan of Trump (to put it very mildly), these leaks are pretty not acceptable. If they were aimed at anyone other then Trump (say, Obama for example), there would be a lot more people speaking out against them IMO. For the security services to be releasing this stuff points to some real problems.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 16 February, 2017 09:42

Hi intexas. I had a read of your Kos articles. They're interesting. But I would see them as adding to the general somewhat confused picture of what Russia/Putin/White House links might exist - and which of those might be of concern. I think that's why we need a proper Congressional inquiry. It seems that that looks more possible as the days go on - as this Boston Globe article suggests.

[www.bostonglobe.com]

And please see the same article jaywalker and rahrahrah for why I think the 'leaks' aren't the story. The intelligence community monitor ambassadors calls (that's why they knew Flynn had spoken to the Russian ambassador). They told the justice department what they'd heard (not a worry as far as I'm concerned). This then led the acting attorney general to raise concerns with the White House that Flynn, having broken the law, could be vulnerable to blackmail by the Russians. Not a sequence of events that I regard as sinister.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by JohnL 16 February, 2017 10:06

Trump tweet
"The real scandal here is that classified information is being given out by "intelligence" like candy.
Very un-American."

In fact the below article seems to say it is very american - from Deep Throat on.

[www.latimes.com]

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 16 February, 2017 10:10

I thought it's length rather detracted from some of the points it was making ( but I have a small brain ) .I agree completely that the Democrats are no opposition . McCain seems to be the only person standing up to Trump .And these bits chimed with me .

"If Obama often seemed an image of deliberation without appetite, Trump has always been the reverse. For him, there is no time to linger: from the first thought to the first motion is a matter of seconds; the last aversion or appetite triggers the jump to the deed. And if along the way he speaks false words? Well, words are of limited consequence. What people want is a spectacle; they will attend to what you do, not what you say; and to the extent that words themselves are a spectacle, they add to the show. The great thing about words, Trump believes, is that they are disposable. " - but the people might just get catch on if it turns out there are more words than action. A lot of love is going to put a stop to bad people who comit anti semetic acts ? Crime is going to be stopped ? Method seems to be missing ?

"The voters have come to understand that the big banks, along with investment companies like Goldman Sachs and transnational corporations, are sovereignties as powerful as states and in some cases more powerful. By vesting a billionaire with extraordinary power, therefore, the voters are going straight to the relevant authority and cutting out the middle man the politician."

"Trump likes the relationship of money to power in Russia and specifically of financial power to government authority more than he admires anything special about Putin, whom he has never met and about whom he knows little. "

And I loved the rhetoric of his last sentence
"The entertainment of the autumn, when a would-be Caesar held us fast in our seats by mixing forbidden truths with his lies, has already glutted the heartiest appetite, but the exits are closed and we are still in the first scene of the first act."

I liked Wollfe in the Guardian yesterday [www.theguardian.com] ,but that's because I'm hoping Trump will go even though I fear Pence .
Though Bromwich in your link Jay gives me hope when pointing out that Trump will be in breach of the constitution regarding emoluments if his hotel is used by foreign dignatories .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:16:10:18:51 by intexasatthe moment.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 16 February, 2017 10:37

Interesting article JohnL. The historical context is really useful.

I agree intexas. That comment about Trump liking the relationship between money and power in Russia is a great one. It gets to the root of how he sees the world, doesn't it?

I fear Pence too. But sitting in Europe I think we have more to fear from Trump. I may be wrong but Pence looks less likely to start a war - by accident anyway.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by jaywalker 16 February, 2017 20:48

Jenny, you are falling for the trap (as I had done) that the article I cited indicated: do find time to read it.

With apologies to Baudrillard, Trump is not the President, he was never the President, and he will not have been the President, as the appalling language has it, "going forward". He will simply become some forgotten. You can tell this tonight as his media voice is getting ever more hysterical. This, after all, is the apotheosis of Twitter. He knows the next cut (of the thousand still to come) will be Bannon. Only those who have adopted the post-modern 'there is no truth' (ironically, the stupid ones suffering destinies in the most cruelly lonesome parts of the USA who have the ressentiment fuelled self-certainty to think they can know truth-as-such) still think he should be in office.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:16:20:58:00 by jaywalker.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 09:34

Well, that press conference was reassuring. He's been reading about Uranium and thinks a nuclear holocaust would be a bad thing. So clearly he knows what he's doing.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by JohnL 17 February, 2017 09:42

Nuclear Holocaust, You'll all not love it.

He's considered it though, and dismissed it for now.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 17 February, 2017 09:44

I've taken to reading the transcribed accounts of Trumps conferences. Here's a couple of extracts from last nights .

" I'm here today to update the American people on the incredible progress that has been made in the last four weeks since my inauguration. We have made incredible progress. I dont think theres ever been a president elected who in this short period of time has done what weve done."

"To be honest, I inherited a mess. Its a mess. At home and abroad, a mess. Jobs are pouring out of the country; you see whats going on with all of the companies leaving our country, going to Mexico and other places, low pay, low wages, mass instability overseas, no matter where you look. The middle east is a disaster. North Korea - well take care of it folks; were going to take care of it all. I just want to let you know, I inherited a mess."

"But our country will never have had a military like the military were about to build and rebuild. We have the greatest people on earth in our military, but they dont have the right equipment and their equipment is old. I used it; I talked about it at every stop. Depleted, its depleted - it wont be depleted for long. And I think one of the reason Im standing here instead of other people is that frankly, I talked about we have to have a strong military.
And one more thing, I have kept my promise to the American people by nominating a justice of the United States Supreme Court, Judge Neil Gorsuch, who is from my list of 20, and who will be a true defender of our laws and our Constitution, highly respected, should get the votes from the Democrats. You may not see that. But hell get there one way or the other. But he should get there the old-fashioned way, and he should get those votes"

What does he mean about Gorsuch "getting there one way or the other " ? So Democrats won't be able to block it ?

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 17 February, 2017 09:53

And this [www.theguardian.com]
article explains that when Deutsche bank tried to reclaim some of the $640m they had loaned Trump he countersued them .
Claiming force majeure ,that the 2008 economic crisis was the equivalent of an Act of God .It couldn't have been anticipated so he wasn't obliged to repay his debts .And that as Deutsche bank contributed to the crisis they owed him compensation of $3bn.

Can I believe this ? I know ( I think ) that financial institutions like to lend money to people who already owe millions ,that somehow owing money ,using credit is what makes billionaires .But Trump suing for compensation ,claiming an Act of God ?

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rendelharris 17 February, 2017 10:33

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, that press conference was reassuring. He's
> been reading about Uranium and thinks a nuclear
> holocaust would be a bad thing. So clearly he
> knows what he's doing.

Yep: "You know what uranium is, right? It's a thing called nuclear weapons and other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium, including some bad things." With that level of knowledge at the top, I can't see how anyone thinks the world's in bad hands.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 10:52

[cross posted]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:11:27:10 by rahrahrah.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 11:11

Yes - the uranium bit is a corker.

Hi jaywalker. I did read the LRB article - it's really interesting. I particularly liked the thoughts on how the current structure of Russian society, business and government appeals to Trump.

The part about the worrying creep of the 'national security state' sounds highly plausible, certainly in the wake of the measures George W took post 9/11. And of course such an apparatus is more dangerous in some hands than others.

But I still think that the main concern right now is the Presidency - and how the other arms of government exert 'checks and balances' on it....or indeed fail to do so. Trump may be in post for some time. And even if he were impeached tomorrow the fallout would be considerable.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 17 February, 2017 11:18

I'm sorry to just post stuff and not offer incisive comments .But I don't know what to say ..

[mobile.twitter.com]

"get out of my country" is that what Trump's heavies say ? Sorry I find that as shocking as Trump refusing to answer .

edited to say that this is apparently from campaign times .Still shocked .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:11:21:32 by intexasatthe moment.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 11:33

Hi intexas.

On Gorsuch I think Trump just meant that Democrats may oppose his appointment, and Republicans may then change the rules of that appointment to get Gorsuch into the job anyway. Trump has encouraged them do this, the so-called 'nuclear option'. There's a NYT article about that here.

[www.nytimes.com]

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by JohnL 17 February, 2017 11:36

intexasatthe moment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry to just post stuff and not offer
> incisive comments .But I don't know what to say
> ..
>
> [mobile.twitter.com]
> 5566786494465/video/1
>
> "get out of my country" is that what Trump's
> heavies say ? Sorry I find that as shocking as
> Trump refusing to answer .
>
> edited to say that this is apparently from
> campaign times .Still shocked .

Apparently only right wing news has been able to ask questions
during the Canadian and Israeli visits.

Although after today's rant he allowed CNN and BBC (and he abused them a bit).

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 11:41

Fox reporting that the 'alt-left propaganda media' got a 'historic beatdown' from Trump yesterday:
[insider.foxnews.com]

The only voice on Fox to break rank:
[www.telegraph.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:11:41:19 by rahrahrah.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 11:41

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> after today's rant he allowed CNN and BBC
> (and he abused them a bit).

...well done Jon Sopel*

Edited to add....*That's the kind of thing that makes me proud to be British.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:11:43:29 by Jenny1.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 12:02

...I've just thought of someone else Trump reminds me of. Chairman Mao. It's that endless anger thing he's got going on.

...edited to add ....and that unshakeable belief in himself as the sole fount of all wisdom. That's very Mao.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:12:04:45 by Jenny1.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 12:08

Jenny1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...I've just thought of someone else Trump reminds
> me of. Chairman Mao. It's that endless anger thing
> he's got going on.
>
> ...edited to add ....and that unshakeable belief
> in himself as the sole fount of all wisdom. That's
> very Mao.

I was thinking of the guy from the tango adverts.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 12:09

Ha Ha. V good. Maybe a hybrid of the two?

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 17 February, 2017 14:43

Thanks Jenny .I'm a bit naive ,of course ,he's just going to change the rules to get what he wants .

On a lighter note

"My bosses have approved a new business card for me:
Jon Sopel
Another Beauty
North America Editor"

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 15:22

What a fine business card that would be!

On Gorsuch. While he's clearly conservative he's got professional respect that means many Democrats wouldn't normally oppose him. The sticking point is that the Republican dominated Congress actively blocked Obama from filling the Supreme Court seat during his final year in office, even though it was vacant.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by IlonaM 17 February, 2017 15:28

Just been sent this about the checks on President's tweets:

[www.lawfareblog.com]

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by Jenny1 17 February, 2017 15:42

That article seems to sum up a large part of the problem, IlonaM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:02:17:15:45:57 by Jenny1.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by intexasatthe moment 17 February, 2017 16:08

Thanks Ilona .So either no one is checking Trumps tweets or they are and Trump is paying no attention to advice .

Incredible .

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 17:24

IlonaM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just been sent this about the checks on
> President's tweets:
>
> [www.lawfareblog.com]
> %80%94and-very-strange-presidential-tweet

Wow.

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by rahrahrah 17 February, 2017 18:50

Kellyanne Conway's interview techniques:
[youtu.be]

messageRe: A general thread to discuss Trump
Posted by jaywalker 21 February, 2017 20:16

So now he is circumventing legal obstacles by 'tightening up existing regulations'. Street arrests, cultivating general fear in the targeted population, raids etc. A country with which we are somehow proud to have a 'special relationship'.

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