diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, DAG always states what has to happen legally
> as things currently stand, obviously things can
> change e.g. EU approves an extension of time to
> A50 for passing of such an Act.
>
> On John's subject of amendments, looks like
> Dominic Grieve has out-trumped them all with
> his...

and looks like it could be voted on today - which just adds to my confusion

Help! I'm running out of popcorn!!
Gov to publish legal advice after being found in contempt of Parliament.
Grieve amendment passed, it's similar to what he wanted earlier in the year, but backed down when May said it would affect her negotiations. Reported that Damian Green and Michael Fallon voted for it....et tu Brute!
I do like it when Parliament takes back control...

*Munch, munch, munch...*

"Leadsom, the leader of the House, said any MP who had ambitions of being in government at some point in the future would “live to regret” the contempt vote that forced the government to publish its full Brexit legal advice."

The government still haven't got the message

Ideal sketch material

TM: This deal honours the result of the referendum
Me: The referendum shows that the public were split, and it was not clear exactly what what was being voted on
TM: No it didn’t
Me: yet it did
TM: no it didn’t, the British Public clearly voted to leave the European union
Me: The referendum showed that the public were split between those that wanted to stay and those that want’t to leave
TM: no it didn’t
Me: yes it did
TM: no it didn’t
Me: This is not a debate, a debate involves a series of statements intended to establish a proposition
TM: no it doesn’t
Me: You are just taking up a contradictory position
TM: No I am not
Me: a debate is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
TM: no it isn’t

(warning anyone under 40 will be lost on this post)

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ideal sketch material
>
> TM: This deal honours the result of the
> referendum
> Me: The referendum shows that the public were
> split, and it was not clear exactly what what was
> being voted on
> TM: No it didn’t
> Me: yet it did
> TM: no it didn’t, the British Public clearly voted
> to leave the European union
> Me: The referendum showed that the public were
> split between those that wanted to stay and those
> that want’t to leave
> TM: no it didn’t
> Me: yes it did
> TM: no it didn’t
> Me: This is not a debate, a debate involves a
> series of statements intended to establish a
> proposition
> TM: no it doesn’t
> Me: You are just taking up a contradictory
> position
> TM: No I am not
> Me: a debate is an intellectual process.
> Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of
> any statement the other person makes.
> TM: no it isn’t
>
> (warning anyone under 40 will be lost on this
> post)

Not even sure I believe some of this from @campbellclaret

"One of those memorable moments in life. In a cafe with @Jacob_Rees_Mogg An NHS consultant comes over, tells us the story of how his German wife, a Doctor, left him because he voted Leave (which he did because he thought it would mean more money for the NHS). Heartrendingly sad"


[twitter.com]

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not even sure I believe some of this from
> @campbellclaret
>
> "One of those memorable moments in life. In a cafe
> with @Jacob_Rees_Mogg An NHS consultant comes
> over, tells us the story of how his German wife, a
> Doctor, left him because he voted Leave (which he
> did because he thought it would mean more money
> for the NHS). Heartrendingly sad"

It was part of a Channel 4 news piece. As it happened:
[youtu.be]

How could any grown up adult be naive enough to believe a politician promises?

The issues around Britain's position in the EU as opposed to the EEC have been discussed over and over and over again in the last thirty years. This was the issue that led to the ousting of Mrs. Thatcher in 1990. In this snippet of a commons debate from Oct. 1990 you can hear all the issues [www.youtube.com]

Given the longevity of this issue in British politics it is absurd to claim that rational people would have made their decision based solely on the few months of the campaign. It is equally absurd that given the length of time that some politicians have been agitating for the UK to leave the EU none of them would have worked out a credible plan to do so.

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not even sure I believe some of this from
> @campbellclaret
>
> "One of those memorable moments in life. In a cafe
> with @Jacob_Rees_Mogg An NHS consultant comes
> over, tells us the story of how his German wife, a
> Doctor, left him because he voted Leave (which he
> did because he thought it would mean more money
> for the NHS). Heartrendingly sad"
>
>
> [twitter.com]
> 26896613379?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp
> %7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Which bit are you not sure to believe? Someone else on twitter posted a picture of the exchange and it looked like there was a camera crew there.

If you haven’t seen the footage it does sound pretty fanciful - the idea that someone voted Leave to help the NHS and lost his marriage because of the result. Exactly the kind of sob story that makes the pro-EU position look callous.

The bit I find hard to believe is that someone like a consuslrant genuinely thought the NHS would see more money and wouldn’t be sold down the river to American private healthcare.

1900...

JoeLeg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you haven’t seen the footage it does sound
> pretty fanciful - the idea that someone voted
> Leave to help the NHS and lost his marriage
> because of the result. Exactly the kind of sob
> story that makes the pro-EU position look
> callous.
>
> The bit I find hard to believe is that someone
> like a consuslrant genuinely thought the NHS would
> see more money and wouldn’t be sold down the river
> to American private healthcare.

I hadn't seen it - now I have and I still find it difficult.

Never mind why Campbell and Mogg were in a cafe together in the first place (but if it was a news interview that explains that)

Top bantz from the ECJ...

The judgment in the Article 50 case will be issued at 9am Luxembourg time on 10 December 2018.

[www.youtube.com]

The Swiss option made me smirk.

We have a new first minster in Wales (a Corbynista) ... is it a sign

"Mark Drakeford is expected to be confirmed as First Minister on Wednesday next week after Mr Jones tenders his resignation to the Queen next Tuesday."

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Wow look at this [twitter.com] this must change everything.

For those who like some original thought. The great iron curtain collapsed in months as did the Soviet Union a couple of years later. They didn't take long to sort out new treaties, trade deals etc and look where that left us in terms of world peace and a move away from right wing nationalism (think Slovakia, Belorus, the former East Germany) and wealth distribution. Although if we want strong and stable (and economically successful) think China. Happy to hear some counter arguments, although I am sure that there is relevant article on Twitter.

Really not sure what your point is with that post?

Oh relating to the problems in delivering a rushed deal could be compared big alliances/federations breaking up quickly in 89 - 91 with mixed results. The China stuff was just a pop at TM for all the strong and stable stuff. There has been a risk in right wing nationalism in many of the former Soviet States/Iron Curtain and it feels that we are risking going the same way here. Also worried that a populist and confrontational agenda in France is having results. Although I would argue that a left wing anarcho bit of direct action (poll tax riots) was of course justifiable. Might be all total bollox and happy to be shot down, either in a five minute debate or the whole half hour.

Not sure if there are parallels with the arab spring and other interventions with no end game.

Tommy Robinson-Yaxley-Lennon in London tomorrow with the leave protesters. Sadly I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of trouble.

Brexit vote delayed

How do I add chicken sounds to this thread ?

There will be three Government oral statements in the @HouseofCommons today:

1 - Theresa May: Exiting the EU
2 - Andrea Leadsom: Business Statement
3 - Stephen Barclay: EU Exit - Article 50

No. 3 could be the biggie, despite the ECJ today ruling that A50 can be unilaterally revoked, Gov more likely to ask to extend A50 to avoid crashing out with no deal. If it's for that, then based on past statements, EU unlikely to allow extension unless there is a very good reason, i.e. a GE or another referendum, not for more negotiating time...

If they extend A50 doesn’t that mean it can’t be revoked unilaterally?

Not according to legal whiz DAG...

By confirming that (1) unilateral revocation continues with any extension, (2) right ends when WA concluded, and (3) if revoked UK membership of EU continues as before...

....this could not be a more helpful judgment for Remainers.

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they extend A50 doesn’t that mean it can’t be
> revoked unilaterally?

If part of the agreement to extend A50 provides that it cannot in future be unilaterally revoked, then yes. Otherwise it can be revoked unilaterally.

Good to see the Omni-shambles which is the PM, has chosen to try to save her own neck in favour of getting a clear message from Parliament. Had she been battered in the vote (which was inevitable) then she (or the next PM) could have taken the result to the EU to show that no matter what she thinks about her insane 'compromise' deal, it will never get past Parliament. Instead, having brazenly ignored the obvious for several days, she has decided to pull the vote to save herself. Par for the course though, I suppose.

There’s just not enough popcorn for all this.

I think if this was a movie, rotten tomatoes would say it was a such a childish plotline, it would be given a RT rating of 0/10 (bad). Ian Fleming had good plots - this is just a shambles.

Theresa May may need a vote to enable her to delay the vote (depending on Bercow's mood .

She'll probably lose the vote.

They can always just talk it out, anyway.

meanwhile country carry's on going to the dogs. just great!

I know - it's going to the dogs - it used to be that the general population could spell and use proper grammar!