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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by ed_pete August 02, 10:15AM

What that his girlfriend ?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox August 02, 10:45AM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw someone in a "f*ck Boris" TShirt today at
> Peckham Rye smiling smiley


That was Jeremy Corbyn

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu August 06, 11:20PM

Have people lost interest? Or just resigned to a disaster. So my reading is that the main reason just over half of the population voted leave was for sovereignty. That is a political not an economic decision. I'm not understanding where the mandate is for this hard Brexit. I see the comments on the BBC which are polarized - you are stupid to vote Brexit vs you sad remainer loser, get over it. No debate on what people actually want. I'm still hoping it is all a bad dream. The other worry is how BoJo has any credibility having no substance or integrity. You could also say the same about the leader of the opposition, although he isn't leading us over the cliff edge, irrespective that he is a big contributor to this friggin mess.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by cella August 07, 12:04AM

In what way is he? He is not part of the Government.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk August 07, 12:34AM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In what way is he? He is not part of the
> Government.

But sadly he’s not providing a credible alternative

So agree he’s part of the problem and was pre-referendum too

I’m not sure even he knows what he thinks most of the time

One thing that the country needs is a new leader of the opposition

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 07, 10:03AM

I don't think people have lost interest, Parliament's in recess and people want to forget about it for a bit and try and enjoy the summer, a recharging of the batteries before it all kicks off in Sept...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by rahrahrah August 07, 10:04AM

The sovereignty argument is not one I feel I can engage in tbh. I don't get it. If we're going to do trade deals with other countries (the US for example), post brexit - then we'll have to give up control over certain decisions (there will have to be common standards and independent arbitration mechanisms in cases of dispute). Any kind of co-operation, or multilateral relationship will involve pooling sovereignty. The truth is that before 2016, the EU was not on people's list of major concerns. An abstract argument about 'Sovereignty' is just all that Brexit believers have left when everything else slips away.
Personally, I don't think Brexit was really about Europe at all. It was about people feeling that they had no control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 07, 11:00AM

"It was about people feeling that they had no control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority."

This is a reason commonly cited but I always feel obliged to point out

a) it was as much the smug, fat complacent golf club bores that voted for brexit as anyone else
b) other countries (included some in the UK, as well as EU) have plenty of people who have a similar sense of injustice etc etc - but THOSE countries (quite correctly) don't see leaving the EU as an answer to that

So there is something else going on here with England (and Wales to a degree) and Englishness IMO

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by rahrahrah August 07, 11:43AM

Yeah, i do agree with what you say Sephiroth. The difference here is probably two things:
1) a sense of English exceptionalism which is a hangover from colonialism and the teaching of history in relation to the world wars (this is particularly strong amongst the golf club bores and the public school boys who have helped engineer brexit
2) a decades long propaganda battle in the right wing press, which has pushed dodgy stories about bendy bananas, red tape and immigration scare stories.

The financial crash and the subsequent austerity agenda (leading to the sense amongst many that led to a lack of "control over their lives, or a general sense of injustice and a system which wasn't working for the majority"), was the spark which made it possible for 1. & 2. to push EU membership up the agenda.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 07, 12:06PM

Yep - something along those lines but I don't think english exceptionalism is confined to the well off

If I look at the people who suffered most because of austerity in countries like Ireland you don't see anything like the same hostility to the EU

Those right wing papers get sold in Ireland but of course those particular stories are left out or recast - is it the media's fault for pushing an anti eu agenda or is it just that they sell what people want to buy?

I guess I'm pointing the finger at voters more than many others appear happy to. yes politicians are cowardly and won't tell them the truth, and similarly media - but voters still need to take responsibility for this

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 07, 12:19PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In what way is he? He is not part of the
> Government.

If the anti-no dealers in parliament could unite they could get behind a caretaker PM with no ambition to be permanent PM (Harriet Harman, Ken Clarke etc) and form a temporary unity government after a vote of no confidence in September.

Can't really see Corbyn allowing it.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 07, 02:07PM

Domino's is stockpiling pineapple (amongst other things) to put on pizza smiling smiley

[edition.cnn.com]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by rahrahrah August 07, 05:13PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I don't think english exceptionalism is confined to the
> well off

I agree, although the 'glories of empire' are strongly propagated in some English public schools.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox August 07, 05:38PM

We have seen the collapse of many Empires including the British Empire when we once ruled most of the World.

The E.U. is just the latest Empire which itself will soon break up and expire.

It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U. in Brussells
Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why are we NOT in charge. ??

Most scams start with a 30day free trial.
You know the ones where the small print does not allow you to leave without paying to do so.
They just keep taking money out of your account. You have very little control over it.

So lets not worry too much about a No Deal Brexit. Leave and get on with it.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 07, 05:45PM

tl;dr...We survived the war

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 07, 06:00PM

Me, earlier: "I don't think english exceptionalism is confined to the well off "

I didn't expect such a swift and un-self-aware response -- bless you Foxy "Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why are we NOT in charge. ?? "

In charge? of who exactly?? The EU is a political construct engaged in mutual cooperation. It hasn't invaded anybody. There is no single country "in charge"

"So lets not worry too much about a No Deal Brexit. Leave and get on with it." I get told off constantly for saying many leavers are ignorant - but come on people!!!!

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox August 07, 06:11PM

Time will tell.

If The UK is seen to make a success of Brexit Other better off Countries will follow suite and leave.

The EU will consist of only the poorest nations. It will be Financial Chaos.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 07, 06:19PM

Time will tell

Sure. Look of it goes well I’ll be a relieved boy

But if it goes as badly as most people involved are predicting the “Oh well” won’t quite cut it will it foxy?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk August 07, 10:12PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have seen the collapse of many Empires
> including the British Empire when we once ruled
> most of the World.
>
> The E.U. is just the latest Empire which itself
> will soon break up and expire.
>
> It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U.
> in Brussells
> Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why
> are we NOT in charge. ??
>
> Most scams start with a 30day free trial.
> You know the ones where the small print does not
> allow you to leave without paying to do so.
> They just keep taking money out of your account.
> You have very little control over it.
>
> So lets not worry too much about a No Deal
> Brexit. Leave and get on with it.

Scarily ignorant!

Zero understanding of what makes an empire or an union

And yet so ready to spout nonsense

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by cella August 07, 11:00PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have seen the collapse of many Empires
> including the British Empire when we once ruled
> most of the World.
>
> The E.U. is just the latest Empire which itself
> will soon break up and expire.
>
> It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U.
> in Brussells
> Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why
> are we NOT in charge. ??
>
> Most scams start with a 30day free trial.
> You know the ones where the small print does not
> allow you to leave without paying to do so.
> They just keep taking money out of your account.
> You have very little control over it.
>
> So lets not worry too much about a No Deal
> Brexit. Leave and get on with it.


There is so much that is wrong with this I don't know where to start. And incredibly simplistic,

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by siousxiesue August 07, 11:19PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have seen the collapse of many Empires
> including the British Empire when we once ruled
> most of the World.
>
> The E.U. is just the latest Empire which itself
> will soon break up and expire.
>
> It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U.
> in Brussells
> Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why
> are we NOT in charge. ??
>
> Most scams start with a 30day free trial.
> You know the ones where the small print does not
> allow you to leave without paying to do so.
> They just keep taking money out of your account.
> You have very little control over it.
>
> So lets not worry too much about a No Deal
> Brexit. Leave and get on with it.

Oh they DO send money back. a lot of money in fact. I was once randomly reading the small print in one of my adult ed classes. Surprised to see of many funders the EU was one!

Ask Cornwall how much they will lose...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by KidKruger August 08, 07:41AM

“...not worry too much about a no deal Brexit”.

That’s impossible when the effects of such a disaster are already punishing the country and its currency !
Unless welfare of the country and its population is not your main concern.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL August 08, 10:11AM

I notice Dominic Cummings is the big bad guy now.

The buck still stops with Mr Johnson however - we won't forget that.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu August 08, 10:28AM

Thanks all for some good posts. Whilst it is recess the new regime are going hammer and tongues at this including the message that it will be the EU's fault for no deal. Daily meetings, departments on full war preparedness. Preparing for the worst and then averting disaster one way or another? May's balanced Cabinet all a million miles away and the last three years conveniently airbrushed out of Tory history.

As for Cummings is he now running the civil service?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge August 08, 10:36AM

The irony of Short Cummings is that he is an unelected bureaucrat wielding unaccountable power over the British nation, the very thing Brexiters accused the EU of. Someone who is also prepared to ignore parliamentary sovereignty, another thing Brexiters allegedly fought for. Brexit has become nothing more than a political jihadi cult...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth August 08, 10:45AM

" he is an unelected bureaucrat wielding unaccountable power over the British nation"

exactly

but people like FOXY don't CARE about that really - even when they say they do

It's all about seeing the EU as the enemy (even as they say "our friends and neighbours")

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sue August 08, 12:55PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the E.U.
> in Brussells
> Why are they not sending money to us. London. Why
> are we NOT in charge. ??
>


What have you got to say about this, then, Dulwich Fox?

Child poverty cash handed back to Europe unspent

[www.bbc.co.uk]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox August 08, 01:17PM

siousxiesue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DulwichFox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have seen the collapse of many Empires
> > including the British Empire when we once ruled
> > most of the World.
> >
> > The E.U. is just the latest Empire which
> itself
> > will soon break up and expire.
> >
> > It is amazing that the UK sends Money to the
> E.U.
> > in Brussells
> > Why are they not sending money to us. London.
> Why
> > are we NOT in charge. ??
> >
> > Most scams start with a 30day free trial.
> > You know the ones where the small print does
> not
> > allow you to leave without paying to do so.
> > They just keep taking money out of your
> account.
> > You have very little control over it.
> >
> > So lets not worry too much about a No Deal
> > Brexit. Leave and get on with it.
>
Oh they DO send money back. a lot of money in fact.
I was once randomly reading the small print
> in one of my adult ed classes. Surprised to see of
> many funders the EU was one!
>
> Ask Cornwall how much they will lose...

Yes.. and the E.U. tells us what we can spend it on.

Why not keep all the money we send to the E.U. and spend all of it on things we need to spend it on.
Like The NHS, Policing, Schools, restoring TV licences for the over 75's

DF

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk August 08, 01:51PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Yes.. and the E.U. tells us what we can spend it
> on.
>
> Why not keep all the money we send to the E.U. and
> spend all of it on things we need to spend it on.
>
> Like The NHS, Policing, Schools, restoring TV
> licences for the over 75's
>
> DF


why not actually invest a little time researching some facts and getting an understanding of the issues rather than spouting rubbish based on ignorance, that you can't even be consistent with?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by rahrahrah August 08, 03:29PM

So if Johnson successfully forces through a no deal brexit, against the wishes of parliament and the majority of voters, what then?

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