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messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 17, 10:49AM

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > rumour that any labour MP voting for a Boris
> deal
> > will get de-selected.
>
>
> Rumour from where?


Owen Jones smiling smiley but he is usually close to the leadership

"A Johnson deal is class war from above, a Tory heist, a scalpel taken to the countryís social fabric. And if a Labour MP votes for such a deal, their betrayal of the most basic reasons their party even exists means they should no longer be a Labour MP, that the partyís leadership should withdraw the whip, or the national executive committee should deselect them."

[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu October 17, 11:00AM

Can the 52% tell me what they voted for

(a) Leave no ifs no buts and hang the consequences
(b) This nasty shiity deal that upsets most apart from the harder right that was to leave but understand that option(a) is too difficult, and is the closest that they will get to the UK to become a new Singapore (that special relationship with the US doesn't look great at the moment)
(c) the dog's breakfast of the May deal which compared to the two above would be damage limitation
(d) Norway or Norway+, Labour's default which economically would appear far more sensible but would be howls of surrender.

What a mess. Need a referendum on what ever comes up.

Far worse than even leaving, is having that duplicitous loathsome person running the country for another five years.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 17, 11:07AM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Far worse than even leaving, is having that
> duplicitous loathsome person running the country
> for another five years.

I can't see him going a year without some kind of big scandal. Whether he'd just plough on Trump like I don't know.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 17, 11:13AM

"*EU law on VAT will apply in Northern Ireland.
*UK shall be responsible for collecting VAT and excise.
*Special treatment for some goods - UK could choose to apply Ireland's VAT reduced rates and exemptions in NI.
*Regular review by Joint Committee"

Imagine if Theresa May suggested that (she may have at one stage).

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 17, 11:21AM

It is an annotated version of Theresa Mays deal

[ec.europa.eu]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by uncleglen October 17, 12:19PM

Here is the map of how constituencies voted
[app.polimapper.co.uk]
The TOTAL population of Scotland is only 5.4 million by the way....

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pk October 17, 01:16PM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can the 52% tell me what they voted for

They didnít vote for anything, they voted against something which is why itís impossible to deliver

So totally agree, need to ask the people whether they want this deal or not

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth October 17, 02:12PM

"The TOTAL population of Scotland is only 5.4 million by the way...."

anyone want a go at what cuddly Glen means with this? Is he saying it's a small country and therefore doesn't as much ?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by diable rouge October 17, 03:29PM

There have been some strange bedfellows during the Brexit process but this takes some beating, Farage snuggling under the duvet with Hilary Benn... smiling smiley

So an unelected, retiring bureaucrat says: No extension, take this new treaty or just leave.

He is overriding the Benn Act. The EU shows itself to be a thuggocracy - power without accountability.

Appalling people.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 17, 04:49PM

LOL someone loudly humming the Russian national anthem as Sky News interview Clair Fox from Brussels.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by TheCat October 18, 06:47AM

Genuine question to remainers, posed in good faith, so appreciate any responses in the same spirit.

If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero quota free-trade deal....how might that change your view of brexit?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Captain Marvel October 18, 08:28AM

A good question. Fingers crossed you'll be spared the sneering opprobrium

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth October 18, 09:01AM

just on it's own terms, not looking at other effects, a zero tarrif deal would only be about tarrifs. It would have little impact on rules of origins and would require significant red-tape and extra paperwork.

SO like much of brexit, it requires a LOT of extra effort, the goodwill of other nations and risk of splitting up the union to achieve very little at all

If the deal struck yesterday was the one advertised on buses 3 years ago would it have won? Not even close

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth October 18, 09:19AM

I see Raab is rolling out lines about it being "a cracking deal for Northern Ireland because it will keep friction-less access to the single market"

But if that is A Good Thing.. etc etc

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by zerkalo October 18, 09:37AM

It won't change my view of it at all. Brexit is still a very bad idea that will leave the country poorer, more bitter and divided. It also takes away established reciprocal rights such as FoM. As Brexiters like to point out, it's not only about the economy and free-trade deals. It's about the kind of country the UK is going to be in the future. I don't like that future promised by Brexit at all.

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Genuine question to remainers, posed in good
> faith, so appreciate any responses in the same
> spirit.
>
> If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero
> quota free-trade deal....how might that change
> your view of brexit?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 18, 09:39AM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see Raab is rolling out lines about it being "a
> cracking deal for Northern Ireland because it will
> keep friction-less access to the single market"
>
> But if that is A Good Thing.. etc etc

gung ho Brits don't need single market access I guess

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by stepdown October 18, 10:15AM

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the UK and the EU struck a zero tariff, zero
> quota free-trade deal....how might that change
> your view of brexit?

It's difficult to answer when the deal you've set out is so vague, it focuses only on one aspect and glosses over all the detail that has hamstrung the process so far. I would be comfortable with a Norway style deal as an example, but the Overton window has shifted so far that is now seen as Brexit in name only by many.

That said, as "a remainer" I voted to maintain the status quo, and am comfortable with the current compromises we make. We already trade with the EU on better terms than you described, how could it possibly change my view?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu October 18, 12:24PM

Watching Newsnight filled me with dread. The Tory independents veering to voting for the deal. A growing number of Labour MPs in leave constituencies indicating similarly.

[inews.co.uk] I've totted up those constituencies that voted over 52% remain with Leave supporting MPs 25 of which 19 were Tories including Grayling, Rabb, Redwood and Brady. I doubt whether any of those will reject the bid so no reciprocity there. And Hooey of course as the most notable of Labour. Ouch.

Got this off BBC comments - incredibly patronising/superior etc but amused me

Brexit really is like watching your library being burned down by people that can't read.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth October 18, 12:50PM

Itís the whole ďgets it doneĒ angle thatís killing me at the moment

Anyone who think this allows us to move on to other issues just hasnít been paying any attention to anything

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by uncleglen October 18, 01:28PM

interesting poll of 26,000 people
[blogs.spectator.co.uk]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu October 18, 02:32PM

In deed, got to hand to the ERG frustrating May on the matter of the back stop. When their bigger aim was to frustrate the electorate, so that they would be so desperate "any deal will do" irrespective of greater damage and doing the dirty on the NI.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sephiroth October 18, 02:36PM

Alternative reading of same poll

[www.theneweuropean.co.uk]


Even then, the poll is showing how people respond in the face of politicians and media largely buying the govt line - a deal is possible which will benefit the country

When the reality hits, like the iraq war, you won't be able to find anyone who supported it

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by keano77 October 18, 07:24PM

Off topic I know but I supported the Iraq war

Itís no use slagging off Brendan OíNeill above if you supported Sadam Hussien

Back on topic - why are Remainers whinging about Borisí crap deal when the surrender Act sent Boris in to negotiate with the EU like a trussed up chlorinated chicken?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was october 18, 07:48pm by keano77.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Alan Medic October 19, 06:25AM

keano77 Wrote:

>
> Back on topic - why are Remainers whinging about
> Borisí crap deal when the surrender Act sent Boris
> in to negotiate with the EU like a trussed up
> chlorinated chicken?

Possibly because Remainers want to remain, and don't wish a 'no-deal' arrangement imposed on the country by the hard right Tories.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu October 20, 07:46PM

All remainers are supporters of Saddam Hussein? What tosh. The west did a great job of supporting him, and the disaster of the second Gulf War will be there for decades. Not a simple case of a despot that needed removing or else we'd invade China, North Korea, Russia, Syria and numerous other countries

That nonsense falls sort of some of even some of the rabid comments on the BBC website.

Happy to have a chat about geopolitics anytime. Not sure how aligning ourselves to Trump will do any good for world stability. What did the Romans ever do for us eh?

Here is a brilliant history lesson:


messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 21, 10:50AM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Off topic I know but I supported the Iraq war
>
> Itís no use slagging off Brendan OíNeill above if
> you supported Sadam Hussien
>

Goes right back to the first Gulf War - and that was Iraq versus Iran in the 1980s

Everything then was a chess game between the West and the Soviet Union.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL October 24, 04:43PM

Where'd you get the bag Dom ?

"An independent publisher which celebrates forgotten female authors said it is "devastated" after pictures emerged of Dominic Cummings carrying on its tote bags."

[www.standard.co.uk]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Captain Marvel October 24, 05:23PM

"In a word, we are devastated."

Sack the editor

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Sue October 24, 06:20PM

Captain Marvel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In a word, we are devastated."
>
> Sack the editor


big grin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was october 25, 12:57pm by Sue.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Alan Medic October 25, 07:04AM

BJ seems intent on distracting everyone from the fact that he won't keep his promise to leave the EU by the 31st (or die in a ditch), by 'offering' to allow parliament discuss his WA, if they will agree to a GE in December. Shouldn't they be debating the WA agreement anyway?

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