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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Jenny1 16 July, 2017 12:06

I was no fan of Thatcher's economic policies, but she had a formidable work ethic and was a good tactician and strategist. The current lot we're burdened with wouldn't have been fit to shine her shoes.

[www.independent.ie]

And I'm not giving the Labour leadership a get-out either. How come we have such incompetent individuals at the top of politics these days?

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by DulwichFox 16 July, 2017 12:26

Thatcher was clever.. ?? Mmmh no deceitful.

She gave 'Council' Tenants the opportunity to buy there own homes..

.. insuring that they could not then afford to go on strike..

...at a time when the
Shipbuilding industry was finished.. The Mining Industry was finished.. The Steel Industry was finished.
The mines closed.. The shipyards closed.. The Steelworks closed .. People had no jobs and they lost their homes.

They were snapped up at auction by unscrupulous landlords. Hence the affordable housing shortage.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Jenny1 16 July, 2017 12:36

Absolutely DulwichFox. I agree with all of that. But people are complex and often exhibit great strengths along with appalling shortcomings. I disagreed with virtually every domestic policy Thatcher ever carried out, but she was no fool and she wasn't lazy. This current lot are both.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:07:16:12:36:27 by Jenny1.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JoeLeg 16 July, 2017 13:43

Thatcher at least BELIEVED in what she was doing. I stand opposed to almost everything she did, but I respect the fact that she truly believed in the path she walked. As you say, not something that we see much of these days.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Jenny1 16 July, 2017 14:23

Absolutely JoeLeg. That's part of it, to be sure. The central irony being that Corbyn, and other 'Bennite' members of the Labour Party, clearly 'believe' in Brexit in a way that the PM, Foreign Secretary and Chancellor (who are actually implementing the policy) don't.

But there are also issues of simple competence too. That's what really struck me about the Irish Independent article above - and indeed many other accounts of what's currently going on in government. The bumbling drift is unforgiveable.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JoeLeg 16 July, 2017 14:45

In fairness we should remember that so much of why we read over the next twelve months will be both sides leaking and briefing in an attempt to shore up public opinion under their position. It surprises me not at all that German politicians are telling Irish ones that the British don't know what they're doing. It may be true, it may not. Your wider point about the general idiocy of politicians these days is inarguably true I feel, but I'm wary of such strident positions being posted in the media, it smells too much like people trying to gain position in the talks.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Jenny1 16 July, 2017 15:18

Hi JoeLeg. I quite agree that there will always be 'briefing with an agenda'. One always has to bear that in mind.

But in my view events bear out the conclusion that the government isn't handling this matter competently.

I watched David Davis' performance before the Parliamentary select committee and found him unprepared. I saw his tweeted statement that the first thing negotiators should do post the referendum result would be to do a separate deal with Germany, compared it with the current reality, and found his views (at best) naieve. I saw his tweets suggesting the withdrawl of the banking and medical regulatory authorities from the UK would be up for discussion, saw the EU take a rapid unilateral decision on this (as was always their right), and reached the same conclusion.

I do not find May, Johnson or Fox any more convincing.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JoeLeg 16 July, 2017 16:05

I wish I could disagree with you...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by malumbu 16 July, 2017 17:26

The penultimate Question Time before the election was revealing where Labour, Greens and Lib Dems all spoke with one voice, that Brexit was a political not economic decision and that the single market was very much Thatcher's vision (supported by all those in her cabinet that I can remember snd a bedrock of all Prime Ministers that followed, including this one albeit that the country has decided).

Great if someone who can explain to me that whist as PM that was genuinely so popular with her supporters at the time, and still loved by the Tory blue rinse brigade, the same blue rinse brigade are so anti Europe.

Please feel free to pick anything apart that I have just said as interested in learning.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by red devil 16 July, 2017 21:47

Jenny1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely DulwichFox. I agree with all of that.
> But people are complex and often exhibit great
> strengths along with appalling shortcomings. I
> disagreed with virtually every domestic policy
> Thatcher ever carried out, but she was no fool and
> she wasn't lazy. This current lot are both.


Perhaps the current crop of MPs are merely reflecting the current electorate, and I can only see it getting worse with social media. Who'd want to me an MP only to be constantly mocked, and/or subjected to misogyny, racism, homophobia etc. I can't get access to read all of this article, but it's clear the point the author is making... [www.telegraph.co.uk]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by WomblingFree 16 July, 2017 22:56

Jenny1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I'm not giving the Labour leadership a get-out
> either. How come we have such incompetent
> individuals at the top of politics these days?

The Economist published an interesting article on this the other week (link below but you might need to register). Summary: neither Labour or the Conservatives have their best people on the front bench - Labour's excludes anti-Corbyn MPs, the Conservatives' excludes those who are pro-EU.

[www.economist.com]

I would add: too many career politicians. I can't think of many of the current crop who've achieved much outside parliament.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Jenny1 17 July, 2017 10:14

Thank you for the link WomblingFree. I was able to access the article. And it draws sensible conclusions I think - the need to widen the talent pool, and value age and experience more highly when selecting MPs. Longer term that would help. But for now we have to resign ourselves to being lumbered with the 'C Team'.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL 17 July, 2017 12:19

Jenny1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I watched David Davis' performance before the
> Parliamentary select committee and found him
> unprepared.

Turned up today to the negotiations with no notes whilst EU team have thick
folders full of notes.

He had a huge grin on his face though.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Seabag 17 July, 2017 12:29

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jenny1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I watched David Davis' performance before the
> > Parliamentary select committee and found him
> > unprepared.
>
> Turned up today to the negotiations with no notes
> whilst EU team have thick
> folders full of notes.
>
> He had a huge grin on his face though.


Davis even when not grinning has that grinny type of face. That I want to punch that face is no matter.

We the 'UK' look like a bunch of chancers thus far.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL 17 July, 2017 17:25

Who's the cabinet leaker then. is it Gove or are they all at it.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Loz 17 July, 2017 17:36

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who's the cabinet leaker then. is it Gove or are they all at it.

I think, since the election at least, they are all at it. Before then, I think they were all scared of May. Since then, well...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by red devil 18 July, 2017 10:21

Gove has definitely got the look of the class sneak about him. Apparently May is going to give the Cabinet a stern talking to today, but with little or no authority, that will be the equivalent of 100 lines rather than six of the best...

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Alan Medic 18 July, 2017 13:09

[www.brexitrecord.com]

Appears to be an interesting everything to do with Brexit site.....

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL 18 July, 2017 13:13

Alan Medic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.brexitrecord.com]
>
> Appears to be an interesting everything to do with
> Brexit site.....


I'm remain but that lightning strike hints the site may not be entirely pro Brexit smiling smiley

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Alan Medic 18 July, 2017 13:21

I saw it as what will happen if we don't remain ☺

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Seabag 18 July, 2017 14:54

How long before 'Not in the national interest' prevails

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by red devil 18 July, 2017 15:36

I wonder what Cameron's advice for May will be?

Runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg1JgU-c_95leZCuSvCXpjlikp9fsgOuO-I1v9uIH8vvSdH8Cx

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by pato 20 July, 2017 18:50

More than running she is going to walk for her 3 weeks holidays in Italy..
Some ppl cannot afford holidays this year thanx to her and her inabilities..but than good on her! She better take advantage now
Hopefully last time she can put her feet in Europe..but surely not. She ll be free to move while we (English and EU) gonna be stuck where we are.
Best of all we are also paying somehow for her holidays..
She probably needs somewhere to stay where ppl are not waiting outside for her but than not sure Italy or everywhere else it s good for her.
On the moon maybe...??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:07:20:18:52:50 by pato.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by rendelharris 20 July, 2017 20:17

pato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Best of all we are also paying somehow for her
> holidays..

For sure, given that a significant security detail and secure communications unit, plus various secretaries and aides, will have to accompany her at our expense. A staycation would have been rather less selfish and more economical for the taxpayer - particularly as she won't be in post more than another year or so, plenty of time for holidays at her own expense after that.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Loz 20 July, 2017 20:42

In better news, Vince Cable is now in charge of the Lib Dems. Hopefully he can kick start the fight against Project Economic Suicide.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL 21 July, 2017 10:00

Even Liam Fox now saying there will be a transition period of a few years.

That means this Government won't be delivering Brexit.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by Lordship 516 21 July, 2017 10:39

Maybe the 'transition' model will become the norm for all the EU, effectively becoming a modification of the EU as we know it. Whatever it will be a new government can completely change tack from the present government format.

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by JohnL 21 July, 2017 10:51

and quietly as if nothing has happened this is now today government policy

[www.huffingtonpost.co.uk]

messageRe: Brexit View
Posted by red devil 21 July, 2017 11:55

Lordship 516 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe the 'transition' model will become the norm
> for all the EU, effectively becoming a
> modification of the EU as we know it.


Agreed, the EU needs to reform but that will take time, something which a transition period would provide...

messageRe: Brexit Viewattachment
Posted by Alan Medic 22 July, 2017 09:46

I like this cartoon....

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?20,file=266712



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2017:07:22:09:47:29 by Alan Medic.

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