Declining bus use in London?

[malumbu]

Interesting article https://www.transporttimes.co.uk/news.php/TfL-is-planning-significant-cuts-in-bus-services-and-now-acknowledges-cycling-as-a-cause-of-London-ridership-decline-333/?utm_source=Transport+Times&utm_campaign=b55a7b8dc8-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_01_17_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c0cafa3f39-b55a7b8dc8-250793593

Puts the blame on slow speeds, and move to cycling and Uber.

[Elphinstone's Army]

Slow speeds definitely - I have missed trains at DH through ponderous chugging bus up the hill, stopping at every stop, often with no passengers needing to board/alight.

I would like a bus absolutely in the rush hour and possibly through the day (has this radical idea been mooted on here) stopping at designated stops only, as Dulwich Library, North Cross Road, East Dulwich Station, Denmark Hill Station, Kings, Camberwell Green, then limited stops to Oval, Vauxhall, etc. limited to transport/hospital links in order to speed the plough.

The 37 to Brixton is notoriously capricious and ofttimes screamingly slow.

The P.13 I have seen three at once on Whateley Road. Last week outside the Funeral Directors opposite M&S, two double decker buses pulled up short at the bus stop and the P.13 sailed past, leaving three elderly ladies quite upset. This is disgraceful, it is meant to be a 'service'

Routes into central London have been opened up for cyclists, new cycle shops appear, safer routes advertised, showers provided at work, cycling gear improved, cycle trains, of course people are going to consider efficient travel, cost, health, control.

Rendel Harris's influence here should not be discounted.

Uber to Brixton dropped us off behind Morleys, requiring us to negotiate Brixton Road with luggage and struggle.

We usually have a uber to a railway station for speed and safety, to avoid the struggle onto a bus, narrow gangways, poorly designed, no room for buggies and luggage.

I want to ride on a streamlined, clean, airy, roomy bus with no chicken eating passengers with feet on seats or slamming windows closed, and room for feet (12) non aggressive drivers, and my pet hate, stopping next to bins/rubbish/pole/behind bus shelter, the belligerent driver ungracious and bloody minded, travel should not be this unpleasant.

However for those who require transport into the London we can see on the skyline and suffered with Southern abandoning their side of the contract, cancellations, short trains and filthy slow busses, cycling will surely be appealing, although not in driving wind and rain, snow and ice, hardcore cycists, do you persist?

This article you quote is speculative? reads like a Management Consultants report.

For non cycists, the elderly, parents with small children, prams, buggies, bus pass wielding determined bus users or hospital bound travellers,

this is not good news

Busses travelling at walking speed is not a new phenomenon by any means and not much changed on certain routes over forty years.

[malumbu]

My bus experience is fairly good. 185 to Vauxhall Bridge if I go before the main schools dropping off times is only marginally slower than the train, less of a walk, virtually always get a seat and the only anti social behaviour is the odd bass beat with music too loud for the headphones.

And will jump on the 63 when in Farringdon at night, and similarly no slower than the train.

I get frustrated with the occasional bunching of buses on the same route, and can't understand how that can't be better managed.

But the chaos that is the Elephant for all forms of transport would put me off doing that route in busier times.

Get peed off with the cyclists passing me when I am waiting as on most days I am one of them. Not just Rendel. Although as nobody will advise me on a decent cycling jacket may be using the bus more often.

And similarly wonder why they have to have so many stops, although not sure how you would manage with more vulnerable bus users if these were reduced so like turning traffic lights off in the early hours, it isn't going to happen.

Not sure about the provenance of the article, it's from a proper on line journal

[uncleglen]

The 68X is a good route...there should be more like it serving ED...185X, 176X for example

[se22cat]

There is a particularly horrific place in Hell reserved for on the bus chicken & chips eaters, mark my words those examples of human excrement WILL suffer for all of eternity.

[fishbiscuits]

The bus is quite plainly a totally unsuitable way to travel, for anyone who needs to be somewhere by a certain time. Need to be at work for a meeting at 9am? Need to pick up kids from school before 6pm? Forget it. They are slow and cumbersome, lurching between stops which are sometimes ludicrously close together. Constantly delayed by roadworks and diversions, traffic accidents, delivery vans parked in bus lanes, and passengers asking the driver stupid questions.

Saying that, this morning both Southern and Overground trains were all cancelled too. Cycling is clearly one solution... the infrastructure has been improved but it still has a long way to go before I'm willing to risk it. Walking? Electric scooter/self-balancing thing? (not strictly legal..)

[Angelina]

I get the bus to work every day, takes me about the same time as getting the train or tube, with interchanges taken into account.

I travel from Goose Green to Westminster, so either bus (change in Camberwell) or get to Brixton to get the tube, or get train at Denmark Hill.

I could really do without the people who talk ALL the way on their phones, or the greasy eaters - really?

But I take a book and it's ok.

40minutes, not too bad...

[malumbu]

Unsuitable way to travel? Let's consider my childhood. Double decker bus with 60 kids on it doing the 1.5 mile school run. When we were old enough we'd walk to spend the money on sweets (not a good thing in retrospect). Now it is a taxi for the poor kids and the local streets clogged up with parents' parking. This isn't jumpers for goal posts and whilst I am not going to turn the clock back take a look around the local primary schools in the morning to see the chaos that the school run results in.

And as said, my route to work by bus is pretty reasonable, quicker than driving with no parking fees or congestion charge, as well as being cheaper in real terms on fuel and other car costs.

My least favourite is when London Bridge Northern Line is five deep and I have a train to catch at Euston or Kings Cross; marginally less worse than the fight at Canada Water to change onto the Jubilee in the morning to get on a train that is already tightly packed.

Balanced transport policy please Sadiq.

[solar]

Bus services have improved immensely in recent years. Buses can be tracked by GPS which avoids bunching. I remember I used to wait ages for a bus and three would come together. Doesn't happen so much now. Also the displays on most shops tell you when the next bus is due.

[JohnL]

solar Wrote:

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> Bus services have improved immensely in recent

> years. Buses can be tracked by GPS which avoids

> bunching. I remember I used to wait ages for a bus

> and three would come together. Doesn't happen so

> much now. Also the displays on most shops tell you

> when the next bus is due.

Is that "displays on most stops" as I'm sure these are being removed.

We're expected to use an app on our phones I think.

[Angelina]

are they being removed? I've not noticed - not everyone has a smartphone so I would be surprised.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Buses are not that much faster than walking and a lot slower than cycling

[JohnL]

Angelina Wrote:

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> are they being removed? I've not noticed - not

> everyone has a smartphone so I would be surprised.

Maybe it's only temporary - there's a list so maybe I've just assumed they've gone permanently. Some have been missing a while.

"We sometimes have to temporarily remove the Countdown Signs so that we can repair or upgrade shelters. View the list of affected bus stops: Depending on the complexity of the work, it can take some time before we put the sign back. Until then, please use this site or text us to get live bus arrival information."

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/live-bus-arrivals

They also move them to preferred locations too sometimes it seems

https://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/5058340.countdown-to-chaos-as-bus-signs-on-move/

[Applespider]

Angelina Wrote:

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> are they being removed? I've not noticed - not

> everyone has a smartphone so I would be surprised.

Don't think they're being removed but just not replaced or new ones added. You can apparently text the bus stop number and they'll send a text with the bus countdown details - if you don't have a smartphone. I'm more concerned about having to have your phone out at a stop with all the chat about moped thieves.

The lower frequency of some buses doesn't help. People have to wait longer, the busier the bus, the more stops it has to make and the longer to get on/off so the less people will rely on it. A vicious cycle of decline - and I also ride a bike quite a bit simply because it's more reliable.

[Nigello]

An express/limited stop 176 would be good. I asked the GLA transport bod about this but was told it wasn't an option. Walking is often just a little bit slower than the bus.

Journeys could be made faster if people went upstairs or sat in all the seats but some people don't like to do sensible things like that...

Drivers are much maligned and ought to be paid more. A few are right gits but most are good and respond to a greeting.

[DovertheRoad]

Yep. I was a regular on the 40 to work but gave up about 4 years ago. At 7.15am it used to take 35 mins from LL to Monument. It's now about 50 and painful.

[Bic Basher]

The 176 is slower than ever. It takes at least 75/80 minutes to get to and from Tottenham Court Road to LL and that's off-peak! I've managed to cut it down around an hour by changing at the Elephant for the 1.

The constant being held at bus stops to "regulate the service", changing drivers in Camberwell which seems to take an eternity, the 20mph speed limit and traffic in general hasn't helped.

[singalto]

The Boris buses probably appear to have low usage as rather a lot of people get on without paying.

[malumbu]

Totally off at a tangent but here's a link to a walk to school campaign https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/what-you-can-do/campaigns/international-walk-to-school-month

Apparently parents find it annoying that other parents park around schools. No ... Sherlock.

[Lynne]

I think there are too many stops, and yes, I can hear all the arguments in favour, but on some stretches, like the two stops between Denmark H Station and the stop by the school, two seems a bit much. And the journey to Lewisham on the 185 makes me want to start chewing my own feet.

[Nigello]

There is the stop for the 12.197.63, 363 on Peckham Rye just after Barry Rd, then another at The Gardens about 200 feet away. Surely this should be taken out of service. Likewise, the one just before Dog Kennel Hill on the way into East Dulwich from Denmark Hill. (I am a bus fan so am just wanting to be reasonable to improve the service.)

[dbboy]

Totally have to disagree, bus use is increasing, have you tried travelling early early morning towards Vauxhall, buses are packed going into town at that time of the morning, would not have throught so many people travel at 6.00-6.30am but they DO. So in my experience usage in this part of London (that we are not served by tubes till the Oval) is INcreasing.