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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageEuropean Elections
Posted by rahrahrah May 10, 01:00PM

Who to vote for if you’re a Remainer? Would be interested in people’s views.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by johnie May 10, 01:20PM

Gina Miller's new site may help:

[www.remainunited.org]

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by rahrahrah May 10, 02:25PM

Thanks Johnie, I hadn't seen this - it's really helpful

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Hemingway May 10, 04:11PM

Liberal Democrat or Green or CHUK, I'll be voting Lib Dem

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by malumbu May 10, 09:44PM

I could probably find out on line but where is the great swing away from Labour to the remain parties? London in particular. Worrying.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Alan Medic May 11, 07:00AM

Is it just a single vote each in London?

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Townleygreen May 11, 07:46AM

Yes, you just vote for a party - it's the same everywhere in fact. So Remainers need to avoid Labour as some of their candidates are Brexit favouring.
It is a choice between Green, Lib Dems and Change.
Lib Dems are ahead in the polls, so a vote for either of the others will split the remain vote.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by DulwichFox May 11, 09:46AM

E.U. Rules once again stipulates that the U.K has to take part.
It will cost the U.K. £ Millions ++ which is a total waste of money.
The U.K. WILL be leaving the E.U eventually and elected MEP's will be defunct.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by alice May 11, 11:19AM

Will they still get paid tho?

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by sjsl May 11, 11:32AM

Thanks for the link to remainunited, has confirmed my decision to vote Lib Dem this time... but regret that Corbyn is not showing better leadership when Theresa is handing it to Labour on a plate.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by diable rouge May 11, 11:39AM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> E.U. Rules once again stipulates that the U.K has
> to take part.

Yep, holding democratic elections really sucks. Of course no one forces the various parties to partake in them, they choose to do so of their own free will, just like our own general/council elections.


> It will cost the U.K. £ Millions ++ which is a
> total waste of money.

A drop in the ocean compared to the £600m a week Brexit has so far cost the county.


> The U.K. WILL be leaving the E.U eventually and
> elected MEP's will be defunct.

I'm afraid your 'will' needs to be replaced with 'might' until there is a parliamentary consensus for passing the agreed WA. Changing the PM won't change the WA or the maths of Parliament, and no Tory leader in their right mind would call a general election, so under the Fixed Term Parliament Act it's more likely that this impasse will drag on until 2021, when we're looking at another hung parliament probably with a Labour Gov, and they will only be able to strike a deal with Remain supporting parties, and we all know what they will insist on. The big delicious irony of all this is that it's been Brexit MPs that have actually stopped us from leaving...

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Alan Medic May 11, 03:16PM

Beautifully put RD.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by DulwichFox May 11, 03:32PM

So good to see the old clique backing each other up. lol

We had a Democratic vote on Brexit and voted to leave.

Democratic General Elections could well be a thing of the past if there is a SECOND referendum.

Some people just refuse to accept defeat.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by keano77 May 11, 04:08PM

Beautifully put DF.

To use some Remainer logic (sic) if Man City and Liverpool both win tomorrow and City get 98 points to Liverpool’s 97, City should not be crowned Champions because of the narrow majority and because Liverpool fans won’t like the result.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by malumbu May 11, 05:05PM

Three years on and I am still looking for a persuasive argument to leave. Yes we have done this to death but please do remind me Keano and DF on why (beyond the let's put our hands up in the playground). There are many many concerns with the EU but none strong enough that has yet to change my mind.

Comparing it with some sport/entertainment is just superficial.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by bigdavid May 11, 05:08PM

To continue the football analogy with Leaver logic (i’ll Do a “sic” as well), there won’t be a next season as City have won and that is the end of it. And of course if a financial fair play tribunal were to rule City’s spending had broken the rules there would be no debate as it would upset the victors.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by malumbu May 11, 05:16PM

Oh and disliking the 'political classes' 'liberal elite' etc isn't a reason. I often find them/me annoying, pompous etc which is a good argument for taking the p a little. Not f the country up.

Hands up all those people who would bring back hanging

Hands up all those people who would repatriate foreigners.

Don't leave that up to referendums. Let's stick to representational democracy no matter how clunky.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by diable rouge May 11, 06:42PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> To use some Remainer logic (sic) if Man City and
> Liverpool both win tomorrow and City get 98 points
> to Liverpool’s 97, City should not be crowned
> Champions because of the narrow majority and
> because Liverpool fans won’t like the result.

Remainers don't want a second referendum because it was a close win for Leave, many including myself would've accepted a Brexit that reflected the closeness of the vote, i.e. a soft Brexit. But Brexiters became greedy, totally ignored Remainers and proceeded to shift the goalposts towards a hard Brexit/No Deal. Neither of these were what was offered by the Leave campaign. We were told there would be a deal, that we would be no worse off than we are in the EU, that the NHS would get £350m/week, that Brexit would reduce immigration etc etc etc. Then there's the whole issue of the Irish border and Good Friday Agreement which was conveniently swept under the carpet during the campaign and ignored until the 11th hour during negotiations. Brexiters have had 3 years to come up with a consensus and have failed miserably, they promised something that has proved to be undeliverable, and in the process have shown themselves to be nothing but a bunch of charlatans and snake oil salesmen. That's why Remainers, and some Leave voters, now want a second referendum...

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by keano77 May 11, 07:28PM

I understand your views are sincerely held DR.

However the Brexit divide is becoming irrelevant as the debate has now morphed into one questioning the very nature of democracy in this country and the suitability of our institutions. A second referendum will only add fuel to the fire. Let’s hope it doesn’t become a firestorm.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Jules-and-Boo May 11, 11:24PM

Farage currently has more points than labour and Tories.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by diable rouge May 12, 12:40AM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand your views are sincerely held DR.
>
> However the Brexit divide is becoming irrelevant
> as the debate has now morphed into one questioning
> the very nature of democracy in this country and
> the suitability of our institutions. A second
> referendum will only add fuel to the fire. Let’s
> hope it doesn’t become a firestorm.

As I said earlier, we could've left the EU by now and therefore honoured the referendum result, were it not for the hardline Breziters. It all rings rather hollow hearing Brexiters say that democracy hasn't been upheld when Brexiters have voted down a deal to leave the EU...

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by diable rouge May 12, 12:47AM

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Farage currently has more points than labour and
> Tories.

Only according to one poll, whereas this poll has BP and Labour quite close and is more in keeping with recent polls, which suggests the BP 'surge poll' is an outlier...

European Parliament voting intention:

BREX: 27% (-1)
LAB: 25% (-1)
LDEM: 14% (+3)
CON: 13% (-1)
GRN: 8% (+2)
CHUK: 6% (-2)
UKIP: 3% (+1)

via @ComRes, 09 May
Chgs. w/ 07 May

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by keano77 May 12, 01:02AM

DR said:

“As I said earlier, we could've left the EU by now and therefore honoured the referendum result, were it not for the hardline Breziters. It all rings rather hollow hearing Brexiters say that democracy hasn't been upheld when Brexiters have voted down a deal to leave the EU...”

Half-in-half-out with Northern Ireland sold down the swanny wasn’t my idea of Brexit. To return to my football analogy, it’s a bit like telling Man City and Liverpool they can only ever draw with teams.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by Alan Medic May 12, 06:41AM

Actually keano NI wasn't being sold down the swanny. If its special status was accepted then it would have found itself in a unique position which could only benefit its economy. It voted to Remain, remember. It's only the DUP who scuppered that. They're the ones who want to maintain the Union and not be treated differently to anywhere else in the UK. But only when it suits them.

You highlighted the main problem with Brexit in your last post. Your 'idea of Brexit'. It's because there is no one idea of Brexit that it has failed and will continue to do so. There will be no agreement. Just more can kicking until October and beyond.

What was it you wanted Brexit for anyway?

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by rahrahrah May 12, 07:56AM

I have always voted Labour. Until recently I was a party member (I have left the party over their Brexit stance). I will be voting Lib Dem and strongly urge previous Labour supporting Remainers to do the same. As things stand Farage is going to storm the EU elections . We have to send a strong, united anti-brexit message.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by teddyboy23 May 12, 09:24AM

Apparently a national comres poll shows the brexit party on 20% Tories 19% labour 27% lib dems14% .so possible the brexit party could take up to 46+ seats in a general election.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 12, 10:10am by teddyboy23.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by peckham_ryu May 12, 09:53AM

That’s a great analysis for tactical voters, thanks!

Johnie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gina Miller's new site may help:
>
> [www.remainunited.org]

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by JohnL May 12, 12:24PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand your views are sincerely held DR.
>
> However the Brexit divide is becoming irrelevant
> as the debate has now morphed into one questioning
> the very nature of democracy in this country and
> the suitability of our institutions. A second
> referendum will only add fuel to the fire. Let’s
> hope it doesn’t become a firestorm.

I see more anger on the remain side at present - if you follow twitter some of it is 'blue on blue'

Oh and Guido trying dirty tactics (creepy stuff) - if you google it ask who took the photo and why.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was may 12, 12:39pm by JohnL.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by JohnL May 12, 12:29PM

teddyboy23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently a national comres poll shows the brexit
> party on 20% Tories 19% labour 27% lib dems14% .so
> possible the brexit party could take up to 46+
> seats in a general election.

They need policies and a manifesto for a general election rather than just shouting 'Betrayal' - they remind me so much of the old ratepayers parties - socially right wing economically liberal - that won't win votes once people see what it really means to our lives, you can't go back to the thirties.

messageRe: European Elections
Posted by diable rouge May 12, 12:51PM

You also have to factor in the 'Farage Paradox', very popular with his former UKIP base as the BP polling shows, but equally revulsive to the rest of the country. Even if the 34% BP polling figure was accurate, who are the other 18% of referendum Leave voters voting for? The Euros are a protest vote, a free hit, May's deal is unpopular, yet a large proportion of Leave voters can't bring themselves to vote for Farage. The best tactic the official Leave campaign employed during the referendum was to sideline him, they would never have won with Farage at the helm...

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