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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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message12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by IlonaM July 19, 07:52PM

[www.standard.co.uk]

'When is the March for Change?

The march will take place at 12pm on Saturday, July 20.

What is the route of the March for Change?

Campaigners are being told to meet at Park Lane for midday. The meeting point is next to the Hilton Hotel.

After meeting at Park Lane, campaigners will then march to Parliament Square where a number of speakers will be heard.

If you're travelling on the London Underground, the nearest Tube stations are Marble Arch on the Central line or Bond Street, which is on the Central and Jubilee lines

But if you are coming from further afield, coaches have been booked to take people into London from all corners of the UK.

Is there a map? [yes - in article]

What celebrities and parties have signed up to take part in the march?

Singer Billy Bragg, presenter Sandi Toksvig and Gavin Esler have all signed up so far, along with Caroline Criado-Perez and Ayesha Hazarika.

Other supporters include the Lib Dems and the Green Party along with Best for Britain and Women for a People's Vote.

Why is the March for Change happening?

Mr Johnson is the favourite by some margin to replace Theresa May as Prime Minister next week, and organisers say they're marching now to "make it clear to Boris Johnson that we want to stop the Brexit chaos".

Campaigners say that more focus needs to be placed on the NHS, schooling and affordable housing instead of resources being put towards Brexit.

They add: "This is a national emergency. We won’t put up with a hard Brexit PM being imposed on the country and hurtling us towards the cliff edge.

"We can only solve the big global challenges - from climate change to terrorism - by working with Europe and the rest of the World.

"We can build that better tomorrow through the most successful peace project in history.

"No to Boris. Yes to Europe."'


See also: [www.theguardian.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 19, 07:59pm by IlonaM.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by TheCat July 19, 09:43PM

Apols but sounds to me like these people have no idea what they want...but I guess it's cool to just be 'anti-whatever' right?

Seems like it's mostly about brexit. Fine. Why not just say that. Instead reading 'why are we marching' is like playing left wing bingo....with extra points for mentioning climate change, the NHS, schooling and affordable housing....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 19, 09:50pm by TheCat.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 19, 11:24PM

Why don't you tell us WHAT the march is about rather than yap on about the when, where and who, yeah, who are these celebs, never heard of them.

You appear to be a bunch of anti Boris remainers or is that Remoaners??????? A bit of transparency (honesty) would help.

Have you not heard of democracy???????? The Govt/Parliament are trying to (badly stop the outcome of the referendum which a majority voted for)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 19, 11:25pm by dbboy.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by uncleglen July 19, 11:44PM

when are you champagne socialists going to do something USEFUL?...all you seem to do is waste police time- and there is little enough of that

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by JohnL July 20, 09:07AM

This place is getting like twitter with the abuse.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by KalamityKel July 20, 09:23AM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This place is getting like twitter with the abuse.


Hardly.

I think it's more a case of people becoming tired of this whole very unclear "thing"... I dunno *shrugs

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by JohnL July 20, 10:38AM

I'm not going but the slogan is "No to Boris, Yes to Europe"

[infacts.org]

That has to be clear smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 20, 10:40am by JohnL.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by malumbu July 20, 12:38PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't you tell us WHAT the march is about
> rather than yap on about the when, where and who,
> yeah, who are these celebs, never heard of them.

OK first part of the sentence true, it is frustratingly confusing what this is about (beyond don't leave Europe and we don't like Boris). Find is bizarre that there is a campaign against him and he hasn't even become PM yet.

>
> You appear to be a bunch of anti Boris remainers
> or is that Remoaners??????? A bit of transparency
> (honesty) would help.

Well yes, you could say that.
>
> Have you not heard of democracy???????? The
> Govt/Parliament are trying to (badly stop the
> outcome of the referendum which a majority voted
> for)

That's where it gets interesting. We have a government that didn't win a majority and a PM who wont be voted in by the people. Seems a bit of a democratic deficit to me.

But hey ho, Boris may improve educational standards and hopefully bring in a law to limit the use of exclamation marks and question marks - and bring in some latin too. I suggest a limit of one ! per post and one ? for every question. I'm planning a march on Whitehall now!!!! Who would like to join me?????? Is this a wonderful piece of digression!!!!!!!!!!

Carpe diem!!!!!!!!!!!! Caudices!!!!!!

The sun has come out now!!!!!! So I think I will cycle down (very champagne socialist!!!!!!) now!!!!!!!!!

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 20, 04:47PM

Yes Malumbu - you've got me totally banged to rights, up in front of the beak in the morning and off to the cells!

I was tiring of the lack of acceptance that a referendum had been held and a majority (rightly or wrongly) and more than likely without sufficient information being available to them at the time about the consequences, had made a choice.

Since then the Govt of the day have made a total hash of the whole process of following through on the referendum, which is where the bit of democracy came into play. But both major parties play the same game in changing leaders and at the same time wanting to remain in power, which is understandable.

The way I see things is that MP's are voting how they wish to vote personally and not as their constituency voted in the Referendum. Had they done so, the UK may already have left the EU.

And just maybe what the country actually needs now to sort this mess out and to take UK plc forward is for a General Election, with the potential result of neither major party having a majority and ending up with another coalition?

As for Farage et al, until he wins a seat in the UK Parliament all he effectively is, is a mouth piece for get the UK out of Europe, with no power and the other countries of the EU openly laughing at the predicament and decision made by the UK to leave.

Would another Referendum solve anything - I have absolutely no idea.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 05:18PM

Dbboy

Explain as concisely as possible what “Brexit” means and then tell me how you get sufficient people to support whatever you write down

Every Leave campaign in the referendum was all about how we wouldn’t suffer/would be better off/easiest deal in the world

Many people who believed that won’t believe the “no deal will be suboptimal but we will be ok”

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by KidKruger July 20, 05:36PM

The MPs are voting to put Country before party (in most cases).
You can call that ‘personal’ if you want.
They can see what a disaster for the country Brexit is (already has been - currency exchange rate, companies moving operations abroad, reduced investment/investment on-hold) and they’re exercising basic common sense.
Surely anyone sane can agree the ‘referendum’ was badly done and had no clarity about the shape of Brexit, plus some pretty major lies were told. About as bad an engagement of the population as it’s possible to get.
It may not feel like it but MPs are trying to protect your ass.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by DulwichFox July 20, 06:15PM

Britain’s contribution to the EU has shot up by £2.6 billion in the past 12 months, new Treasury figures show, as the UK’s growing economy was used to prop up Brussels’ budget.

An “eye-popping” £15.5 billion was sent across the Channel in the year ending March 31, compared with £12.9 billion the year before - an increase of 20 per cent.

The extra money would be enough to put 50,000 more police officers on the streets or fund 81,000 social care beds.

Brexiteers said the increase was yet more evidence that Britain must leave the EU as soon as possible to stop taxpayers’ money “pouring into bottomless EU coffers”.

DulwichFox



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 20, 06:21pm by DulwichFox.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 06:25PM

Wow foxy

“2.6 billion per cent ”

That’s a lot. Are you SURE??

Now. Even if we were to give your numbers credibility (which I don’t) what’s the difference between gross and net

What does that money get us? Quite a lot I’d say

I can complain about sky raising their prices AGAIN, but if I stop paying I don’t have access to their programmes any more (an imperfect analogy. I don’t need to sell sky anything in return)

It’s just a shitty bluff. “We spend money!!!”

Yes you do. And you think there is a better answer? Define it. Define it AND get support for it

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 06:33PM

Ah I see what you did there. You edited your post without acknowledging why. Classy

Anyway. Back to basics. You quote some numbers. Please provide the source so we can appraise

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by DulwichFox July 20, 06:35PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow foxy
>
> “2.6 billion per cent ”
>
> That’s a lot. Are you SURE??
>
> Now. Even if we were to give your numbers
> credibility (which I don’t) what’s the difference
> between gross and net
>
> What does that money get us? Quite a lot I’d say
>
>
> I can complain about sky raising their prices
> AGAIN, but if I stop paying I don’t have access to
> their programmes any more (an imperfect analogy.
> I don’t need to sell sky anything in return)
>
> It’s just a shitty bluff. “We spend money!!!”
>
> Yes you do. And you think there is a better
> answer? Define it. Define it AND get support for
> it

I have corrected the editing error. which was in the original document.

Any amount sent to the E.U. is too much.

If you do not believe The UK should manage its own finances then
perhaps you would like someone to manage your finances.

I would be happy to do this for you. Just transfer all your monies into an account that I will set up
and then advice you on what you may spend part of that money on. Makes sense ??

That's what the E.U. does.


Fox

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 06:40PM

Foxy doing a FINE job there. Proving just how smart these leave voters can be

Foxy. Why do you think for 40+ years the uk has NOT managed its own finances?

Why do you think most of the other eu countries don’t manage their own finances but want to stay in the eu?

What is England (not uk. The uk did not vote to leave) going to do now that it couldn’t do before?

You are a fool sir. Chasing fool’s gold. And taking us with you

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 20, 08:22PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dbboy
>
> Explain as concisely as possible what “Brexit”
> means -

Brexit = Leaving the EU


and then tell me how you get sufficient
> people to support whatever you write down

It's not about getting people to support whatever I scribe, I have presented some facts for people to consider.


>
> Every Leave campaign in the referendum was all
> about how we wouldn’t suffer/would be better
> off/easiest deal in the world
>
> Many people who believed that won’t believe the
> “no deal will be suboptimal but we will be ok”

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 08:40PM

That is some weak sauce

Leaving the eu in the referendum was presented as painless and advantageous

No one is pretending that now. The referendum was a bait and switch. It’s illegitimate.

You have presented no facts. I suggested you define it because, as the last 3 years have shown “leaving the eu” as something a majority would vote for is a mirage. As soon as anyone writes down what it means, support evaporates

Do a referendum now with no deal as the option? Not a chance you would win.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 20, 08:52PM

Exactly, people didn't know what they were voting for and or more importantly what the consequences would be.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 20, 09:00PM

And you think that’s a good reason to proceed?

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by KidKruger July 21, 12:22AM

“Exactly, people didn't know what they were voting for and or more importantly what the consequences would be.”

I’m not convinced the consequences are still fully known, but given what we have learned since the referendum a follow-up would not vote Leave IMO.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Loutwo July 21, 02:32AM

No proof at all less people would vote leave in a follow up, and if anything the very boundaries between the two camps are more defined now than they ever were 3 years ago. Not just my opinion, check the opinion polls.

As a vote leave person who changed their mind post vote, I am in no position to judge switchers. However, the whole process of democracy depends upon majority opinion. If the majority voted one way, the legitimate thing to do in a FPTP democracy is to enact that decision. If, in a decade or less we feel the need for a second referendum, by all means go for it. I’d happily vote to re-join. But DO NOT, reverse a decision BEFORE it has been legitimised, that’s classic EU dictation. Keep asking the same question until you give me the answer I want. Patronising.

BTW, it wasn’t just ‘England’ who voted majority for Brexit, Wales did too.

Louisa.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 21, 07:51AM

You can not enact a decision If the decision is not defined. “Leaving the eu” means many things to many people. Many of those definitions directly contradict others.

It’s has nothing to do with the eu

It’s simply this country being childish. They deserve to be patronised frankly

If you want to leave the eu, define how you want to leave, them out that to a vote

You can’t leave and then try and rejoin later. Not without painful concessions

You have to say what kind of leave you want. You have to write it down and codify it - and you can’t. Because as soon as you do it loses support. And that’s nothing to do with the eu

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by JohnL July 21, 11:14AM

The biggest net contributor to the EU by far is Germany - yet people say Germany gain massively from the EU (which they probably do ).

So contributions are not a real measure of the value of membership.

Also - if we are talking about a march - and it's being said that it's a bit nebulous what it wants - maybe that's because it's all preparation for rejoining in a few years (10 maybe) - we have the right to start the fight for that now as I think we all agree we are leaving and probably with a no deal (unfortunately in my view)

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by JohnL July 21, 11:16AM

addendum smiling smiley

of course the EU being pretty clever on these things will now try and re-define what "no deal" means - and make it a deal really.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Loutwo July 21, 12:55PM

I find it difficult to justify a further referendum, simply because definitions of ‘leave’ are ambiguous. If politicians want to hand such complex and important decisions down to the populace, it is imperative those definitions are in place before the question is asked. They were not. People can only go on what information they have been given and the questions they have been asked. Let’s not start blaming the great unwashed for reaching a decision on those ‘facts’.

A referendum round two, which may have those definitions, could easily be rejected again. Are ‘remainers’ now saying they’ll happily toddle off out the EU and accept that the ignorant people who voted ‘leave’ first time actually meant it? I doubt that’s the case. Furthermore, if there’s a narrow ‘remain’ vote, do we get round 3? Or would it not just be easier to accept the first result, get out of the EU in whatever fashion our politicians conjure up (god forbid), and then reconsider entry at a later date. And yes, it will be painful, and yes their will be concessions, but unfortunately that’s what happens when politicians hand big decisions to people who don’t understand them.

Louisa.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 21, 01:11PM

Options are;

1) Stay and see what happens, come what may. (and from what is being said this morning in the press looks like at least five ministers intend to resign from Govt if Johnson becomes PM).Which means the Govt could potentially fall

IMO he's a car crash just waiting to happen again and will be a disaster for the UK, he opens his mouth without first engaging his brain).

OR

2) Leave and re-settle in another country if the thought of leaving the EU is so hard to accept.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 21, 01:25PM

This is how docile, meek and sloppy with your thinking being an English subject of a monarchy makes people

“I think brexit is a mistake. I voted for it but I changed my mind”

Probably millions like you. You probably want a second referendum to be sure before making such a momentous change, breaking up the United Kingdom and threatening peace in Ireland as well as medicine shortages and poverty. Yknow. Like other grown up countries do?

“Christ no!!!”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 21, 01:26pm by Sephiroth.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by Sephiroth July 21, 01:29PM


2) Leave and re-settle in another country if the thought of leaving the EU is so hard to accept.”

We can do this now. But we won’t be able to do it precisely because of Brexit. Do you see?????

Here is another option. Weigh up all the facts and realise it’s not worth it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 21, 01:31pm by Sephiroth.

messageRe: 12pm start Sat 20th July - 'March For Change' in Central London
Posted by dbboy July 21, 01:44PM

Remain or leave, you want to remain and can't accept the result of a democratic vote.
Oh, and give up on the crass and patronising you're English remarks.

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