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messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by pk October 04, 04:18PM

uncleglen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dig deep people
> [www.standard.co.uk]-
> rebellion-chaos-cost-police-7-million-says-scotlan
> d-yard-chief-cressida-dick-a4133076.html
>
> and that was in May....these people are just
> anarchists and various old farts having a last
> hurrah...

you don't believe in climate change then?

like the Donald

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by Sephiroth October 04, 05:32PM

"Dig deep people"

Mate, that is not deep

As the years roll by, we will be paying a lot more than that to try and cope with the effects of climate change

Not that that will bother you eh Glen? Like me, I suspect you are a man of age so won't be around to witness the damage

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by peckman October 04, 07:47PM

Even if you dont believe in climate change (which is real btw) does anyone actually think it's reasonable to burn and use all the worlds resources .. as good housekeeping goes it's pretty shit

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by fishbiscuits October 04, 08:46PM

I think as a general rule anything that raises climate change awareness has to be a positive, whether it's "anarchists and old farts", or rather precocious teenagers. The gravity of the issue outweighs any personal dislike.

Let's have a bit less of the "die-ins" though... it's a bit embarrassing..

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by Seabag October 04, 09:59PM

I liked the dodgy hose incident, in fact I reckon it got them more traction on their cause.


I suppose old fire engines are decommissioned for a reason, this being one of them.

But it was the endeavour I admired, not so much the delivery 😂

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by uncleglen October 05, 02:31PM

peckman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if you dont believe in climate change (which
> is real btw) does anyone actually think it's
> reasonable to burn and use all the worlds
> resources .. as good housekeeping goes it's pretty
> shit

they go hand in hand. Man's activities on the planet contributes greatly to global warming....and using finite resources like oil to make endless plastic bags etc is moronic....and I did NOT say I did not believe in global warming pk...I studied global warming and the greenhouse effect to death in my degree.
However nobody is prepared to grasp the nettle of overpopulation- especially not the religious morons!

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 06, 09:58AM

Overpopulation - a complex discussion. UK has an aging population, and without immigration population may even go down. But who is there to wipe the bums of our old and infirm. I'm using this course example as I did exactly this one summer working on a geriatric ward and may well be in need of someone to do this for me one day. So whilst in the west the birth rate is low and population aging, we need developing countries with higher birth rate to provide the workers for our health and social services. Saying this from a perspective of a very interesting presentation by an academic, rather than pub talk. I'll leave that one open for discussion. Or we can do was the Japanese do and use robots for company of our older generation.

Yes population control is a massive factor, raising of living standards etc.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by katanita October 06, 11:15AM

Has anyone got any recent science on the relationship overpopulation and use of resources? I assume globally population levels are still rising faster than we can currently support but I'm sure I've read that the birth rate is levelling off or even decreasing in some areas. It would also be interesting to know if anyone has modelled what level the planet could sustainably cope with if e.g. we decreased inefficient animal farming and planted crops for direct consumption instead, and reduced carbon emissions etc.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]attachment
Posted by Charles Martel October 07, 02:06AM

fishbiscuits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think as a general rule anything that raises
> climate change awareness has to be a positive,
> whether it's "anarchists and old farts", or rather
> precocious teenagers. The gravity of the issue
> outweighs any personal dislike.

Extinction Rebellion is not about raising awareness. Their stated aim is to seize control of the British state and then to use state power to enforce their hysterical agenda on the rest of us. For our own good of course.

Fortunately there are far more intelligent, rational and humane people concerned with dealing with the reality of how an industrial civilization can progress. I would suggest listening to this interesting podcast in which Peter Fiekowsky, the Founder and President of the Healthy Climate Alliance, discusses his ideas for reversing climate change. [player.fm]

It is not surprising that while Greta Thunberg's hysterical theatrics at the UN were broadcast worldwide, the first Annual Global Climate Restoration Forum at the UN had no attention. See it for yourself [webtv.un.org]

The more that you look into the issues around climate change and the very many good ideas that are being put forward as credible solutions, the less sympathy you will have with Extinction Rebellion and their aims.

Economic progress is the key to slowing and stabilising the world's population as Hans Rosling explains in this TED talk.
[www.ted.com]
The sooner we get to grips with decarbonizing our own economy the sooner we will have the solutions to solve these problems for the rest of the world. Or we can just superglue ourselves to the roads and let the Chinese take over. As the attached graph shows the EU and US are starting to reduce emissions, but the current problem is caused by everyone's cumulative emissions since the start of industrialisation. Population growth in areas without industry like India and Africa has added very little cumulatively. They won't be a factor if we have zero carbon solutions for power generation.

Attachments: global_CO2_emissions.jpeg (412KB)  
messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 07, 06:44PM

I've just seen Juliet Stevenson on the news. She didn't look like she wanted to seize control of the British State. I don't see how ER will ever achieve the critical mass to achieve this aim. So main outcome appears to be increased publicity/profile rather than a coup.

The more intelligent, rational and humane Peter Fiekowsky seems to be about carbon capture - which to me suits the beliefs of the sceptic, ie that we can engineer our way out of this if absolutely necessary. I couldn't bear the razzmatazz of the broadcast so only listened to the beginning.

Not sure if I agree on population growth either - growing population, more land for farming, carbon sinks lost, pressure on water resources, and that is before we get into improved standard of living.

Good to challenge, but not convinced.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by uncleglen October 08, 01:50PM

There was a man on the radio today who is involved in clearing litter from his local beach. He said it is almost impossible to involve people under the age of 50....says it all really how about how they really care about the environment- the litter shouldn't be there in the first place.
As for overpopulation and not having staff for older generations because the population is ageing and the birth rate falling- that is as a direct result of the pressure on housing as many youngsters cannot afford a place to live AND a child let alone more than one. And it also means that many youngsters have to move away from their ageing parents as they cannot afford to live near them....and as for getting social housing ha ha ha...unless you've got 10 kids ...which means that people who irresponsibly breed are favoured for cheap housing and that breeds an underclass- then crime goes up ....and up and up...

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by keano77 October 08, 03:32PM

Had to smile this morning.

Sky News was interviewing some of the eco demonstrators.

A lovely couple of girls - the type who’ve been taken on lots of foreign holidays by plane by their parents - shackled to ... wait for it ... an oil drum.

Others chained up beneath a lorry - running on petrol or diesel no doubt.

Oh the irony

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by TE44 October 11, 09:48AM

Keano, do you think a movement for change should only involve people who live without room for change.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by keano77 October 11, 10:34AM

Sorry TE44, I don’t understand your question.

Just to be clear, I think it is a very noble cause but it needs to be realistic. Don’t forget even the tyres on our bikes are derived from petroleum byproducts and it will be many years before we can mine asteroids to replenish depleted rare-earth metals (but that will require sending many rockets up into the atmosphere).

We need a scientific revolution to achieve XR’s aims.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 11, 12:04PM

There's numerous changes that we can do to reduce our carbon footprint, essentially more effective use of resources. This is not just about technical solutions and what governments should be doing. If XR gets this over (irrespective of maybe their bigger political agendas and criticisms) then this gets my support. And this is from someone who lost two hours of work (until very recently I was a professional tree hugger).

Government nudges and bigger interventions wont to amiss and BJ worries me with this populist shite - starting with suggestions of reducing fuel duty. His environmentalism as Mayor (the ULEZ is his baby)was no doubt just another sign of his naked ambition rather than a true belief.

In parts of France they just banned plastic carrier bags. No consultation, no wavering, just do it. And now fruit and veg sold in paper or biodegradable plastic. Small measures but the right direction.

messagechange can happen if we want it
Posted by dbboy October 12, 04:59PM

There is so much that can be done, the supermarkets could make a huge difference if they wanted do.

Brown paper bags for fruit and veg, like it used to be
No one use plastic bags for taking fruit/veg to the checkout, home and discarded
Butchers - wrap in paper not plastic sheets.
Deli counter - ditto
Remove plastic packaging and replace with cardboard type materials

messageRe: change can happen if we want it
Posted by spider69 October 12, 05:43PM

If Sainsbury's for instance supplied paper bags it would mean they could not sell you the 30np bags that you need to take away loose fruit and veg.

Which would hit their bottom line and they would suffer which they would not accept.

30np for a bag that you would loose or forget to take with you.

How much do they cost to manufacture 001 of a penny? Agree cardboard type materials.

messageRe: change can happen if we want it
Posted by Sue October 12, 06:13PM

When I was young, you took your own bag (probably cloth) to the greengrocer.

Things like potatoes and onions went straight into the bag as they were.

Fruit usually went into a brown paper bag.

Supermarkets already sell bags for life. The idea presumably is that you buy one or two and they last a long time.

Those thin plastic bags are not charged for.

Forgive my stupidity but I can't see how changing back to the old system (i.e. the 5p plastic carrier bags) or not providing brown paper bags would affect the supermarkets' bottom line more than it already has been?

ETA: Tesco, for example, no longer give you the option of paying for the thicker plastic bags when they deliver stuff.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was october 12, 11:11pm by Sue.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by TE44 October 12, 09:07PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had to smile this morning.
>
> Sky News was interviewing some of the eco
> demonstrators.
>
> A lovely couple of girls - the type who’ve been
> taken on lots of foreign holidays by plane by
> their parents - shackled to ... wait for it ... an
> oil drum.
>
> Others chained up beneath a lorry - running on
> petrol or diesel no doubt.
>
> Oh the irony


Keano, I wondered about your above post, whether the irony you felt was about the assumption of these girls backgrounds. We can probably all find opposing ways we behave, our backgrounds may have an impact on our learned ways especially when trying to change patterns we have come accustomned to. Do you feel it would be more difficult for people from certain backgrounds?

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by sweetgirl October 13, 12:26AM

Personally I would say many of these protestors are hypocrites.
They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they are going to, it will be less of an impact on the environment!

I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo bridge the last time & most are not even Londoners! It was a holiday for them!

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by seenbeen October 13, 12:42AM

Some interesting facts about the abundance, persistence and impact of the top 10 'greenhouse gases'....
[www.thoughtco.com]

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by TE44 October 13, 07:22AM

Sweetgirl are you suggesting anyone who got a bus to protest is a hypocrite.
Yes there may be peple who have never protested before the difference with XR unlike many groups in the past is the fact they want people to realise themselves rather than poiinting the finger and making people feel alienated. I belueve this recent protest has many different groups involved and been welcomed.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by Sue October 13, 09:40AM

sweetgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally I would say many of these protestors
> are hypocrites.
> They should cycle or walk to wherever it is they
> are going to, it will be less of an impact on the
> environment!
>
> I spoke to a good number of people at Waterloo
> bridge the last time & most are not even
> Londoners! It was a holiday for them!


But surely it is brilliant that people from elsewhere are coming to join the protest?

Why would you call it a "holiday", if they would not otherwise have been visiting London?

And why are people hypocritical if they did not cycle or walk there? What is wrong with using public transport? Not everybody is sufficiently physically fit to cycle or walk for miles!

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 13, 12:57PM

Irrespective of your views some wonderful costumes, and I bet they also could advise me on relining my garden pond too.


messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by dbboy October 13, 01:02PM

I wonder what type of material was used and if it was cotton or some man made material and if the used materials can be recycled and plastic bottles being used for drinking aids, etc. etc. etc.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by TheCat October 13, 01:49PM

As I've said before on this thread, I'm a strong advocate for efforts to mitigate climate change, but don't agree that ER's methods are the most effective (or even very effective at all) to do so. And then having 'tacked on' protests like the one referred to below (which has nothing to do with carbon in the atmosphere) doesn't help to dispel the perception that ER is largely run by middle class virtue signallers, more interested in telling themselves (or instgramming) about 'making a difference' than actually making one.....

"At London’s Billingsgate market, thousands of fish, stolen daily from their ocean homes, lie dead or dying,” said Kerri Waters, a spokesperson for Animal Rebellion. “Many will have suffocated slowly when pulled aboard fishing vessels, while thousands of others remain alive as they’re transported by lorry to the market, where they’ll be gutted or boiled alive.”

So are you protesting about fossil fuels? And global warming leading to extinction of the human species? Or about fish's feelings?

People are being told they need to cut down on beef and other farmed meats becuase of the carbon impact of meat production. But apparently ER doesn't want people to eat fish either due to them being "ripped from their ocean homes".....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was october 13, 02:07pm by TheCat.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 13, 02:56PM

They closed down the Department for Transport for a morning. Most of the campaigners there were past retirement age. I've not done my research but that sample does not align with your views above.

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by uncleglen October 13, 03:00PM

[www.pressreader.com]

explains a lot..especially the old people topping up the pension, and the young ones topping up the benefits....

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by TheCat October 13, 04:37PM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They closed down the Department for Transport for
> a morning. Most of the campaigners there were
> past retirement age. I've not done my research
> but that sample does not align with your views
> above.

Why can't the elderly also be middle class virtue signallers?

messageRe: Extinction Rebellion: events and actions [edited subject to be more general]
Posted by malumbu October 13, 06:26PM

You mentioned the word instagram, which is hardly how I think of the people I saw on Tuesday.

But you'll have to help me out here. I've mixed with Greenham women, road protestors, New Age Travelers and the like over the years with a fair amount of sympathy and occasional more active involvement. I expect that some on ER are drawn from these previous environmental/alternative lifestyle/peacenic campaigns. Are they too virtue signalers. And you also seem to be falling into the Brexiteer/populist trap of despising people because they are middle class. Many including me were the first in their family to get higher qualifications and enter professions. Yet now education and social mobility seem to be loathed for the first time, as for some (not all) some sort of jealousy that they couldn't do similar themselves. Having worked all around the country and similarly family well distributed I get grief about being the London political class etc etc.

I'm the first to have a go at some of the stereotypes I see in this area and the extremes of gentrification (wasn't like that when I lived off Coldharbour Lane in the 80s!) but you appear to tar all those on ER with the same brush.

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